AHU, hard to turnover,wont start

[cepdave]

I've installed an AHU into my Samurai. I have the wiring done and can communicate through Vag Com. Right now it's VERY hard to turnover the engine. I measured 30 foot pounds? Is this normal. The starter works VERY hard and sometimes can't turn it over at all. The engine does rotate freely, just gets really hard during certain strokes. Could this be anything with the injector pump? I'm sure the injector pump was totally dry. Any ideas for things to check? Thanks!

 

[Autopaul]

Is there oil in the engine? seems obvious but in the excitement of a swap simple things can be left out..(probably not)

How about the valve timing, if its off you could be getting mild interference. A bunch more information is needed for proper guess work over the internet.
When was the engine last run?
known to be running?
battery condition
is there immobilizer kicking in
missed wiring

 

[cepdave]

It has fresh oil and filter. I've even verified that the oil is circulating up into the head/cam area.

Not sure when the engine was last run. Probably a few years ago, could even be more than 5 years ago. I know it sat outside under a tarp for some time.

Brand new battery, 1,000 cca
Starter, brand new.
It's my understanding that AHU (98) did not have immobilizer in USA?
I just finished the wiring and think most (at least what's needed) is there and working. I have been having problems with the fuel shutoff valve. Sometime it gets a signal sometimes it doesn't, can't figure out why it gets a signal or not.

 

[Steve Addy]

No immobilizer on 98 AHU car.

I'm not excited about something that sat outside that long, even under a tarp. Were the manifolds installed when it sat outside? Were in the inlets / outlets capped or plugged?

Steve

 

[cepdave]

The manifolds were on but nothing was plugged. Having said that, there are no signs of water anywhere.

At one point (for no apparent reason) the engine turned over nice smooth, very fast. When I turn it over by hand it gets very hard either during a compression stroke or perhaps the injector pump is going through some sort of compression stroke.

I have sucked fuel through the injector pump but have not bled the injectors. From what i can tell, the injectors are dry. I read something about air in the injectors causing the the pump to lock up. Is this possible? My next move is to try to bleed the injectors.

 

[Steve Addy]

It should resist some when you turn over by hand but not something that should be difficult to overcome.

As someone else mentioned, you've verified that belt timing is correct?

If you've primed the IP there shouldn't be any issue there that I can think of although it will take time for the injectors to fire.

For an engine that's sat this long I would want to let it turn over for a while with the IP stop solenoid shut off just to get stuff flowing anyway.

You can detach the pipes from the injectors if you want but I don't think your problem is related to that.

If you replaced the starter are you sure this one is actually good? I'd find a known good starter and substitute that one. Also, where did the new starter come from?

I wouldn't be considering IP as a source of the problem until I figured out why my new starter can't seem to turn the engine over.

Also, any history about the car this engine came from? Was it a runner before it was parted?

Steve

 

[cepdave]

I've been thinking about this and googling all morning. I think the most likely scenario is that there is excessive voltage drop through the cables, connections, or perhaps a bad ground. This would explain the weak starter. The Samurai's are well known for faulty grounding.

I know the timing is balls on , checked, double checked and triple checked. I've tried this with two different starters, one new, one used. Both give the exact same result.

I'm not in a rush to actually get it started, for now I just want to get it turning over again. Anyhow, wish me luck while I give it another crack tonight.

Cheers!
David

 

[cepdave]

BTW.... My google results of torque to turnover the motor seem to indicate that 30# isn't unreasonable. Most rebuilt gas engines seem be be between 15-27#.

 

[K1Cowboy]

I've seen old starters dying that sound like they are under a lot of stress but they aren't. I see it a lot on boat starters that are exposed to moisture. Is your starter brand new, rebuilt, or new to you used? I've seen a lot of "rebuilt" starters that aren't worth the box they come in. And like mentioned before, cables and grounds can be the culprit.

 

[samuraitd]

Especially if you are running the old samurai starter. That thing is extremely weak for the ahu motor. I would suggest a tracker or sidekick 1.6 16 valve starter, it has a lot more torque. My samurai starter wouldn't even turn the motor over, so I put a junkyard tracker starter on. It still barely turned over, so I pulled it apart, put new brushes on, cleaned everything up with contact cleaner, and now it runs like a new starter.

 

[cepdave]

Especially if you are running the old samurai starter. That thing is extremely weak for the ahu motor. I would suggest a tracker or sidekick 1.6 16 valve starter, it has a lot more torque. My samurai starter wouldn't even turn the motor over, so I put a junkyard tracker starter on. It still barely turned over, so I pulled it apart, put new brushes on, cleaned everything up with contact cleaner, and now it runs like a new starter.

I'm using a sidekick/tracker starter from a 1.6 automatic. It uses a planetary gear reduction along with 1.7kw wiring. "I've read" the output torque is higher than the original VW starter. This starter "should" be more than capable of starting the 1.9.

 

[cepdave]

I've seen old starters dying that sound like they are under a lot of stress but they aren't. I see it a lot on boat starters that are exposed to moisture. Is your starter brand new, rebuilt, or new to you used? I've seen a lot of "rebuilt" starters that aren't worth the box they come in. And like mentioned before, cables and grounds can be the culprit.

Totally agree, but think there is something else going on here because I've tried two starters. My hopes are on voltage drop, easy fix.

 

[samuraitd]

I'm using a sidekick/tracker starter from a 1.6 automatic. It uses a planetary gear reduction along with 1.7kw wiring. "I've read" the output torque is higher than the original VW starter. This starter "should" be more than capable of starting the 1.9.

Gotcha. That's what I am using too. It cranks over really nice. Hope it's just a simple easy fix for you.

 

[K1Cowboy]

Run a set of jumper cables off the battery for testing purposes. The hot one to the starter +, the ground to the block near the starter or somewhere close. That should eliminate a cable or ground problem.