AFN, What mods too get 200BHP.

[Dankemp]

hiya , reading alot about tuning the tdi ..

i would like too get 200bhp or as near as i could ....

so whats on the list ?

FMIC
GT17
.240 injectors? (not willing too pay bigg bucks for race ones unless i have too )
3bar map
chipped ecu.
Pd manifold
exhaust??
oil cooler??

 

[slimbadboy]

you might be forgeting the turbo.....

 

[Dankemp]

i put gt17

 

[CERBER]

for 200bhp the right turbo is 1752(17/22)hybrid

 

[slimbadboy]

GT17 is very open ended, you could use the 17/22 or you could go GTB1752V or you could go GTB1756VK ...

Hard choice really

 

[G60ING]

200 is pushing the limits stock rods


I'd suggest this mix for a 200whp AFN:
BV43 Turbo
11mm injector pump
cam
downpipe & exhaust
injectors (fairly large)
chip tune & Map sensor

Intake manifold will help some, so will a FMIC and better IC plumbing

 

[Kingcodez]

A Meth Kit will slap on some power.

 

[G60ING]

A meth kit will lower EGTs but does it add HP/TQ? The cam adds HP/TQ and lowers EGTs

 

[CERBER]

200 is pushing the limits stock rods

thats not true...I've seen 230+hp afn with stock rods

I'd suggest this mix for a 200whp AFN:
BV43 Turbo

200whp(225+bhp) with BV43 turbo? of cource not...
like @slimbadboy wrote:
- 17/22
- gtb1752
- gtb1756vk

 

[bhodgkiss]

I bet he means 200bhp not whp as he's in the UK, so call it 175whp.

I have the same car mate.

I've just put the BV43 turbo on off a 2.0 170bhp Audi A4. Its plug and play. Normal cost £200. People on here have got 215bhp with this turbo.
I have a Forge FMIC installed, with custom pipework. Kits available on ebay £150 for cheaper versions. Not required but keeps temps down and standard intercooler has plastic end tanks, which will only take so much boost.
I have Bosio R520 injectors to go on, pop tested to make sure they're opening at the right pressure. £350. You can go for 0.216 nozzles but not the cheap ones on ebay, so it's always gonna be £250+ to buy them and have them set up properly.
I have a fully ported cylinder head (not required for our power really but fancied taking the top end off anyway to check the bottom end and i liked the idea of a better flowing head) £400
I'll need a dual mass flywheel upgrade to take the torque, as well as friction disc change. Anything over 170bhp (350Nm) and you'll ruin your current clutch. £500
I'm sticking with 10mm fuel pump but installing a lift pump in the fuel tank off the B5.5 PD130 soon, to help the main pump at the top end. £100
You'll need a 3 bar MAP sensor to control 1.6 bar boost. £30
I've deleted the EGR and put a PD130 inlet manifold only. £75
You might consider uprated head bolts, for £45 you get the PD150 ARL Golf head studs which are 20% better tensile strength - but need shortening to fit our heads.
Also a decat pipe helps, not essential, but THS do a nice one for £140.

I got my turbo for just £100, and its a beauty.

When you factor in changing all the extras like changing to a new head gasket £35, new oil feed pipe to the turbo (worth doing) £35, an oil change at the same time £30 etc etc we're talking £2000 to get your 200bhp. You can sell certain bits (like your old turbo) and you can miss out certain options above too, so minimum £1000 to do this.

 

[Dankemp]

awesomeness.....

best get collecting parts !!

think im going too go for a 180bhp goal first .. because ive only got the gt1749.....(witch i didnt realise was only good for 175-180 ish..)

nozzles is going too be the biggest buy for me i think , and finding the right ones is going too be a challenge..

 

[resto1975]

I have a set of 0.240 nozzles that have been pop tested and balanced, never used them since i had them fitted a couple of months ago PM me if you are interested. The problem with being UK based is the lack of desent mappers Mark Malone does all my tuning but it means logging and chips via post but i am very pleased with the results.

 

[mk1-83]

Gt1749v good to 150 HP the gt1749va -180 HP gt1749vb -200hp gt1749vc- 215
What. Turbo do you have. now???

 

[Dankemp]

i have the gt15 now..

but i have just won a gt1749VA

what would be the differents of a GT1749VC ?? could i buy a exhaust side too put onto the GT1749VA ?

 

[G60ING]

CRturbos in the UK & TurboDynamics in the UK does some custom work to the gt1749va: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=298788&highlight=crturbos

Jon,

The hybrid was manufactured by CR Turbos in the UK...

http://www.crturbos.co.uk/

I posted my own 1749va to them and they rebuilt it following stripdown and inspection. The turbo was fitted with the larger 56 compressor, uprated thrust bearing and a cut back on the turbine side for better exhaust flow control....its now good for 1.8bar (approx. 26.5psi). Cost about £650 inc. vat at 17.5% and delivery.

This is the third turbo I have purchased from them.....no problems so far.

TurboDynamics in the UK will also supply similiar units, which are manufactured from new units and wil cost around £900 approx...

Len

 

[G60ING]

Exhaust Bore size

37.26mm A/R=.61 on GT1749VA
38.65mm A/R=.62 on GT1749VC (Third generation vane)



Compressor Exducer size

49mm trim=48 (34mm inducer) A/R=.46 compressor GT1749VA
48.9mm trim=55.1 (36.3mm inducer) A/R=.50 compressor GT1749VC (Third generation vane)


I've heard people say the BV43 is about the same as the VC

 

[Dankemp]

thanks for that info

 

[arazvan2002]

After a discution with my tuner, he recommended a little recipe for ~200HP (@crank) on AFN.
He gained 197Hp and 415Nm(on dyno) on a Golf 3 AFN with stock internals. As I have the original AFN engine block on my garage, I want to rebuild it with PD (or maybe ASV) pistons and Pd100 rods. As I saw, the stock internals are ok at ~200Hp but I want to drive without fear to brake something.
As is a little hard to find 11mm IP from AHH, or the AHH bracket for it, and after that the entire transmission system with pulleys(crank,IP, camshaft) because the belt for AHH with 11mm pump is wider, can I use 10mm with bigger nozzles and the same result or should I seach 11mm pump and the other things?
For the moment I don't want to modify the head, just new hidraulic lifters (any suggestions?).
Now, about pistons, what to be,used (both) AWX 18.5:1 CR or ASV 19.5:1 CR (with better oil cooling), both 79.5mm with new sealings (stock size), honed cilinders for new facing, not rebore, and new bearings for crankshaft. That engine was running very good even in winter despite 300k km on it so I don't think I will need rebore and bigger pistons. I prefer used pistons and rods because the low price, otherwise ASV or BGW, BHW new pistons but very expensive.

Injection pump 0460 414 987- 038 130 107H or J or K 11mm + lift pump (to get)
Map 3bar 038 906 051 C (AVF,AWX) (to get)
GTB1756VK vacuum actioned (2.7tdi) (to get)
Injectors: T4 (AEL) 0.216 (done)
Fmic (done)
240mm s2 clutch SMF (done)
Pd130 intake (done)
Catless exhaust (done)
PD130 pistons with ATD, AJM (pd100-115) rods (to get)
maybe EGT and boost gauge

I know that maybe the whole story was discussed before or fragments but maybe I will get new opinions. I like the ASV pistons, looks nice and for sure better cooling, but for that power is not more healthy a small CR, like with AWX pistons? If they are good for 200Hp on AWX engine, I think they will do the same thing on a AFN.

 

[JFettig]

The timing belt on the AHH is not wider, both are the exact same width, tensioner is also the same width and diameter as AHU/AFN. I have both here. They are different part numbers and supposedly the AHH belt and tensioner are better.

You will need bigger than T4 nozzles to get 200hp on a 10mm pump(especially the older 10mm pumps)

Stock compression is fine for 200hp lower compression would be better(18.5)
Upgrade your head bolts
Upgrade your rods while you have the engine cracked open.

11mm AHH injection pump is the same part number as a 11mm auto ALH injection pump.
Many people who have adapted 11mm pumps to AHU cars have run stock timing belt system. I wouldn't downgrade my AHH timing system to AHU timing gear, even though I have to order mine from overseas.

 

[arazvan2002]

1. IP - I need to do some difficult modifications on the AFN bracket to mount 11mm pump? I think I will need also the gear for it, also from AHH to change the timing.
Meanwhile I found an AHH pump but I was afraid of the modifications needed to fit it. Some pictures would be nice with the modified AFN bracket.
When I will build it, I will get AHH timing belt kit.

2. what nozzles with 10mm AFN IP or 11mm AHH?

3. AWX pistons are bolt on with AJM rods regarding valve cleareance and pattern (stock)? Are they as good as ASV regarind piston cooling? Maybe because CR is lower, there is no need for better cooling than AWX ones have?

4. Can I buy new OEM ARL bolts and cut them? Do I need new rods bolts or i can reuse the ones that will come with them?

Sorry for repeating the questions but I'm trying to get a very clear conclusion and have no doubt about the part list and modifications. Is like "think twice and cut once" because the budget will be tight.

Thanks a lot!

 

[Mikkijayne]

I have the 11mm pump on mine with the stock AFN timing belt and tensioner and its working perfectly. All I did was took the pump and AFN bracket to the machine shop and they bored the bracket out to fit. They also skimmed the pulley down to fit the belt cover as per the write-up. I didn't get any pictures tho.

I didn't know the AHH belt and tensioner are different. I'll have to look in to that next time its due

 

[brum]

I've build mine AFN with same idea. It is Passat '99 AFN engine. What I have done to now:

1) FMIC, 63mm exhaust system
2) CR lowered to 18:1 (2.0PD pistons with deeper valve pockets)
3) Dbilas 260 degree camshaft
4) Firad .216mm + 25% nozzles and 11mm pump (ALH pump internals inside AFN pump body)
5) Custom exhaust manifold for GTB1756VK (vacuum actuator converted)
6) ARP head studs
7) small side mods - 240mm DMF and clutch and 6 speed gearbox

And I'm a bit afraid to hit the 200bhp limit cause of the stock PD 115hp rods I used. If I break this engine I'll for surely go back to stock AFN engine. So probably I'll upgrade the rods before I continue with the boost (currently running 1.5-1.6 boost with 18:1 AFR and expected 150whp and 350 wheel torque).

The nice part is that with this hardware and tune the engine runs around 5l to 6.5l out of the city per 100km (5 at 100km/h and 6.5 at 140-150km/h on the highway) and it easily speeds up if necessary .

 

[Dankemp]

Think im not far from 200bhp (uk),

spec as follows ,

3inch downpipe , 2.5inch system.
2" intercooler piping with large FMIC
HiFlowx .240 nozzles
gt2052v @ 18-20psi
external 3bar map sensor
140bhp inlet manifold

all on standard internals, standard clutch and 10mm pump , deffo needs a 6 speed box.

not driving like a grany around town and the odd carrage way, it does about 170-180 miles too 15L

 

[brum]

gt2052v @ 18-20psi

If this is 1.9 - with this boost you are pretty far from the 200bhp . The lowest I've heard for 200bhp is 26-27 psi with pretty efficient turbo.

If it was 2.5L engine the boost should be sufficient for near 200bhp.

 

[Dankemp]

is 26 27 psi even safe for standard internals ?

my turbo needs rebuilding atm , as i have sticky vanes, but as soon as thats done i'll put on on the rollers

 

[JFettig]

I have run 26psi on my stock AHH internals for the last year or so. When I swapped for Rosten rods and PD pistons, the originals were still good.

Just don't run insane amounts of timing and you shouldn't have a problem.

 

[mk1-83]

1.8 bar mine at 208hp so 27 psi just right

yes it will hold on stock internals

 

[Dankemp]

need to check my timing first then really , mk1-83 whats the spec on yours?

 

[Dankemp]

what turbos will replace the gt2052v ?

because i have had a custom exhaust and i have the correct manifold for that turbo .

are there any gtb turbos that have the same fitment?

 

[mk1-83]

Race 520 11mm pumphead flowd cilhead. Pd 130 inlet 60 mm exhaust systeem.
Turbo a 2056 from a vw Crafter 2.5 cr tdi 163 HP