Advice and guidance mk6 tdi turbo upgrades

[Cynanic]

So I recently acquired this mk6 sport wagon tdi. With the low mileage of 266k she’s ready for some love. I purchased said vehicle with no turbo on it. As it was stolen for another project. Car has been serviced at vw it’s whole life with paperwork which is something I suppose. Anyways I’m gettin off topic, obviously she’s in need of a turbo. I’m not looking to go back to stock as I see that pointless. I also want to do a full delete of anything I can. What turbos are gonna offer me a good power increase? and not kill my wallet. Also what delete kits are people runnin. Not new to the vw scene but this is my first tdi so I’m pretty excited.

 

[MrCypherr]

A common upgrade people do to give you a little bit more power and keep it "OEM" is the CR170 turbo from Europe. You can buy them from a couple websites. If you go that route, you'll need a EGT spacer and a different intake tube off the turbo. Usually when you buy these new, you can select the option for them as well. You could go also go bigger but that would require a different exhaust manifold, etc.

 

[Garrison]

CR170 is very good - like stock, but ++ when tuned up (Stage 2, or Stage 3)

@lemoncurd is the ultimate turbo hype-man; hopefully he responds here

 

[tjg]

I can vouch for it.

One thing to keep in mind is that the CR170 will not bolt up to the dpf/egr system, so you will need to delete.

 

[lemoncurd]

CR170 is very good - like stock, but ++ when tuned up (Stage 2, or Stage 3)

@lemoncurd is the ultimate turbo hype-man; hopefully he responds here

i have been summoned

i feel like my position on turbo's is pretty well known at this point, i dont like the thought of upgrading to a cr170. i'd rather fork up the extra dough and slap in a GTB(D or E)2XXX turbo

even a GTD17XX turbo would be a better choice than the CR170.

i have a couple reasons for this logic. CR170 while a great option, ends up putting you in a weird position where you can have a TON of DMF chatter, then still choke out up high. plus wicked high EGT when tuned for more power than the stock rating in EU market

meanwhile, a GTD17XX will do the same DMF chatter, but not choke out so much.
but then, enter the GTD2XXX line. more downlow torque than stock, and tons of highend compared to stock / cr170

GTD2060VZ is kinda my goto recommended turbo these days. if youve got the dough, GTE2260 would be awesome. those are the latest gen VNT tech ones. factory antisurge housing!

but OP, given the odd state of the car (you bought it without a turbo), i personally wouldnt fault you for putting a cr170 or even uprated cr140 into it. a functional car is better than no car!

my chatting about for turbo's is largely for folks who have a functional car right now, and are looking to upgrade down the line. then i say, why not budget for a month or 2 extra and get yourself a really nice turbo that will not make you upset down the line should you upgrade injectors or other parts of the engine for more power

 

[lemoncurd]

hopefully he responds here

also, as someone who is chronically online..... if i ever NOT respond to a ping, someone should check on me LOL

 

[Garrison]

Aside from converting a GTB2260 from electronic to vacuum actuator and fabbing exhaust manifold, what else is required for this?

*Assuming a custom intake?

 

[lemoncurd]

Aside from converting a GTB2260 from electronic to vacuum actuator and fabbing exhaust manifold, what else is required for this?

*Assuming a custom intake?

charge pipe connection, oil feed line, oil return line, downpipe, and turbo intake pipe

 

[p.e.fletcher]

Intake, downpipe, oil feed, oil return

 

[p.e.fletcher]

charge pipe connection, oil feed line, oil return line, downpipe, and turbo intake pipe

Beat me to it lol. Silicone for charge pipe as well yes. Hard pipe kit and bigger intercooler won’t hurt either.

 

[Dalon]

also required is a few expletives, smashed hands, and people looking for a diesel truck

 

[MrCypherr]

i feel like my position on turbo's is pretty well known at this point, i dont like the thought of upgrading to a cr170. i'd rather fork up the extra dough and slap in a GTB(D or E)2XXX turbo

even a GTD17XX turbo would be a better choice than the CR170.

i have a couple reasons for this logic. CR170 while a great option, ends up putting you in a weird position where you can have a TON of DMF chatter, then still choke out up high. plus wicked high EGT when tuned for more power than the stock rating in EU market

Since I got a CR170 for pretty damn cheap, I am going this route, and mostly because I need this to be reliable as I do about 800 miles a week basically. BUT, When you say high EGTs, what abouts are we talking here? Right now with a stock CR140 turbo, If I'm WOT at mid/high RPM, Im about around 850 to 900C (1500-1600F). Where abouts would the 170 put me ? I dont beat on the car often and the car is 99% highway, (I know not to step on it around low RPM, etc. etc.).

I've thought about doing a GTB but right now just dont have the resources for the custom parts needed for that right now.

 

[p.e.fletcher]

Since I got a CR170 for pretty damn cheap, I am going this route, and mostly because I need this to be reliable as I do about 800 miles a week basically. BUT, When you say high EGTs, what abouts are we talking here? Right now with a stock CR140 turbo, If I'm WOT at mid/high RPM, Im about around 850 to 900C (1500-1600F). Where abouts would the 170 put me ? I dont beat on the car often and the car is 99% highway, (I know not to step on it around low RPM, etc. etc.).

I've thought about doing a GTB but right now just dont have the resources for the custom parts needed for that right now.

The CR170 EGTs only get bad if you start pushing it to peak levels and beyond (that turbine housing and outlet are pretty small and can’t get it out fast enough). Keep it somewhat reasonable in the tune and it should be fine IMHO.

That said I wholeheartedly agree with @lemoncurd and would go for a bigger upgrade if the funds/time/project for allow it.

 

[Garrison]

Adding an S3 intercooler would help lower EGTs if you're concerned

 

[MrCypherr]

Being a daily and do trips across Canada/US, I dont really expect to push it to the max as I'm not really looking to max the turbo. If I want power, Id prob go with the GTB route and do some custom work to make it work. Right now, its just a highwaystar lol. I do have the upgraded Darkside S3 intercooler, which i believe is somewhat bigger than the OE S3 intercooler, along with the hard pipes.

Im just trying to hit around 200hp mark tbh, and ill be happy for now.

 

[p.e.fletcher]

That should really be a great combo then IMO

 

[MrCypherr]

Im assuming the 170 can achieve past 200 so I'm assuming I'll be within the decent limits of not pushing it .

 

[lemoncurd]

Adding an S3 intercooler would help lower EGTs if you're concerned

s3 IC isnt really worth the upgrade imo

if youre going to fuss about with the IC, either spend the big bucks to get a wagner tuning IC, get the darkside modified S3 IC, or get a FMIC

 

[Garrison]

I went went with Ebay special that was sized the same as 70mm darkside for ~ $180, very pleased with the results - needed the darkside pipe kit though

Edit: if curious

Screenshot-20240428-170327-e-Bay hosted at ImgBB

Image Screenshot-20240428-170327-e-Bay hosted in ImgBB

ibb.co

Screenshot-20240428-170306-e-Bay hosted at ImgBB

Image Screenshot-20240428-170306-e-Bay hosted in ImgBB

ibb.co

 

[Cynanic]

i have been summoned

i feel like my position on turbo's is pretty well known at this point, i dont like the thought of upgrading to a cr170. i'd rather fork up the extra dough and slap in a GTB(D or E)2XXX turbo

even a GTD17XX turbo would be a better choice than the CR170.

i have a couple reasons for this logic. CR170 while a great option, ends up putting you in a weird position where you can have a TON of DMF chatter, then still choke out up high. plus wicked high EGT when tuned for more power than the stock rating in EU market

meanwhile, a GTD17XX will do the same DMF chatter, but not choke out so much.
but then, enter the GTD2XXX line. more downlow torque than stock, and tons of highend compared to stock / cr170

GTD2060VZ is kinda my goto recommended turbo these days. if youve got the dough, GTE2260 would be awesome. those are the latest gen VNT tech ones. factory antisurge housing!

but OP, given the odd state of the car (you bought it without a turbo), i personally wouldnt fault you for putting a cr170 or even uprated cr140 into it. a functional car is better than no car!

my chatting about for turbo's is largely for folks who have a functional car right now, and are looking to upgrade down the line. then i say, why not budget for a month or 2 extra and get yourself a really nice turbo that will not make you upset down the line should you upgrade injectors or other parts of the engine for more power

i have been summoned

i feel like my position on turbo's is pretty well known at this point, i dont like the thought of upgrading to a cr170. i'd rather fork up the extra dough and slap in a GTB(D or E)2XXX turbo

even a GTD17XX turbo would be a better choice than the CR170.

i have a couple reasons for this logic. CR170 while a great option, ends up putting you in a weird position where you can have a TON of DMF chatter, then still choke out up high. plus wicked high EGT when tuned for more power than the stock rating in EU market

meanwhile, a GTD17XX will do the same DMF chatter, but not choke out so much.
but then, enter the GTD2XXX line. more downlow torque than stock, and tons of highend compared to stock / cr170

GTD2060VZ is kinda my goto recommended turbo these days. if youve got the dough, GTE2260 would be awesome. those are the latest gen VNT tech ones. factory antisurge housing!

but OP, given the odd state of the car (you bought it without a turbo), i personally wouldnt fault you for putting a cr170 or even uprated cr140 into it. a functional car is better than no car!

my chatting about for turbo's is largely for folks who have a functional car right now, and are looking to upgrade down the line. then i say, why not budget for a month or 2 extra and get yourself a really nice turbo that will not make you upset down the line should you upgrade injectors or other parts of the engine for more power

Thank you for you advice, very helpful. On eBay there is a GTD2060VZ turbo with a 2.0 manifold for around 1k what is your opinion on something like that. Also besides the obvious fitting the turbo things would I need bigger injectors or anything of that nature. Also do you know of any companies that offer off the self tunes for such. Have a great day!

 

[lemoncurd]

Thank you for you advice, very helpful. On eBay there is a GTD2060VZ turbo with a 2.0 manifold for around 1k what is your opinion on something like that. Also besides the obvious fitting the turbo things would I need bigger injectors or anything of that nature. Also do you know of any companies that offer off the self tunes for such. Have a great day!

you can fit only the turbo for now (and accompanying bits like downpipe, oil feed/return, and intake plumbing) to get a nice 265~hp. injectors, hpfp, intercooler, IC hard piping, and water meth can all come later.

that turbo makes an excellent option.

@Xtremefunky is tuning my car, and a friends passat NMS. plus loads of other CR TDI's, all with excellent results. PM him for info

GTD2060VZ turbo with a 2.0 manifold

make sure it's the 2.0 manifold for CR's! specifically round port (assuming you are CBEA/CJAA)
there is a 2.0 PD TDI which uses a different manifold.

 

[Cynanic]

I went went with Ebay special that was sized the same as 70mm darkside for ~ $180, very pleased with the results - needed the darkside pipe kit though

I might try this also thank you!

 

[WWJSWD]

i have been summoned

i feel like my position on turbo's is pretty well known at this point, i dont like the thought of upgrading to a cr170. i'd rather fork up the extra dough and slap in a GTB(D or E)2XXX turbo

even a GTD17XX turbo would be a better choice than the CR170.

i have a couple reasons for this logic. CR170 while a great option, ends up putting you in a weird position where you can have a TON of DMF chatter, then still choke out up high. plus wicked high EGT when tuned for more power than the stock rating in EU market

meanwhile, a GTD17XX will do the same DMF chatter, but not choke out so much.
but then, enter the GTD2XXX line. more downlow torque than stock, and tons of highend compared to stock / cr170

GTD2060VZ is kinda my goto recommended turbo these days. if youve got the dough, GTE2260 would be awesome. those are the latest gen VNT tech ones. factory antisurge housing!

but OP, given the odd state of the car (you bought it without a turbo), i personally wouldnt fault you for putting a cr170 or even uprated cr140 into it. a functional car is better than no car!

my chatting about for turbo's is largely for folks who have a functional car right now, and are looking to upgrade down the line. then i say, why not budget for a month or 2 extra and get yourself a really nice turbo that will not make you upset down the line should you upgrade injectors or other parts of the engine for more power

Muchboost is offering a GTD2060vz with an anti surge housing. I am curious if I wanted to use the water lines where the best place to tap in would be for feed and return

GTD2060VZ 1.9TDI Vacuum Converted Hybrid Turbo Upgrade with 1.9/2.0TDI Manifold - Muchboost.com

MuchBoost GTD2060VZ turbocharger professionally adapted to 1.9TDI, or 2.0TDI transverse and longitudinal VE, PD, and Common Rail engines (all the engine codes are mentioned at the bottom of this page.) The turbo is equipped with a genuine Garrett Compressor Wheel 10+0 Blades. The base is an...

muchboost.com

All I’ve been looking for is a solid daily turbo that doesn’t die past 3400 like stock. However even my stock CR140 feels laggy on hot days. Not getting any boost until 22/2400 RPM, and I mean zero, like the car is not accelerating then a torque slap at 2400 RPM. I can’t tell if this is normal and a larger turbo will only make this worse or not. The daily usability is top priority rather than just top end power.

is there a specific tuner who has experience mapping a boost profile for GTD setups? Once I save enough pesos and get this turbo I’ll reach out to Malone and see if they’re game to give it a shot.

 

[Garrison]

Malone/Tunezilla will do it - just send them over a list of your mods and they can get a file together for you (don't forget DSG tune too)

@burpod is working on a tuning setup, he's a "real" tuner whereas Malone will give you a general map to meet your requirements. Not sure he's up and running yet but would recommend reaching out to him to see

FWIW my CR170 spools around 1800rpm and is going full steam by 2400ish rpm

That could be the tune though, so just fyi

 

[WWJSWD]

Malone/Tunezilla will do it - just send them over a list of your mods and they can get a file together for you (don't forget DSG tune too)

@burpod is working on a tuning setup, he's a "real" tuner whereas Malone will give you a general map to meet your requirements. Not sure he's up and running yet but would recommend reaching out to him to see

FWIW my CR170 spools around 1800rpm and is going full steam by 2400ish rpm

That could be the tune though, so just fyi

I’ve been working with Malone for a couple years, it’s their standard “stage 2” boost map with a 2200bar fuel rail sensor and an R70 CP3 pump with a basic fuel regulator. Nothing crazy unique. The rail pressure is at 2000BAR now which will be helpful at higher power levels to keep injector duration short and EGTs down.. I’m not sure what’s up with the stock turbo, some days it comes on at 1900, but most of the time it’s 22/2400 when it builds boost. But no codes… could be the stock circlips on the intercooler sealing well one day and poorly the next

 

[lemoncurd]

is there a specific tuner who has experience mapping a boost profile for GTD setups

@Xtremefunky ..... him. 100% him

also, regarding the heatsoak lag, upgrade your IC

 

[WWJSWD]

I went went with Ebay special that was sized the same as 70mm darkside for ~ $180, very pleased with the results - needed the darkside pipe kit though

Edit: if curious

Screenshot-20240428-170327-e-Bay hosted at ImgBB

Image Screenshot-20240428-170327-e-Bay hosted in ImgBB

ibb.co

Screenshot-20240428-170306-e-Bay hosted at ImgBB

Image Screenshot-20240428-170306-e-Bay hosted in ImgBB

ibb.co

Do you still have the vendor you got this from? I haven’t been able to find that exact match

 

[Garrison]

I was hunting for you - it looks like they've since sold out of stock, here is the closest comparison I could find for you; obviously price is higher than what I paid but it's the same item:

Turbo Intercooler Kit For VW GTI Jetta mk5 mk6 /Audi A3 fsi tsi 2.0t Gen2 06-10 | eBay

UPGRADE VW GOLF GTI 06-13 2.0T MK5 INTERCOOLER KIT (VERSION 2). Intercooler Aluminum Pipe kit. Intercooler kit. 1 x aluminum intercooler. oil cooler kit. core height: 16". Suspentions Part.

www.ebay.com

Still $200+ cheaper than the darkside one though:

Darkside Uprated S3 Intercooler for Mk5 / Mk6 Platform Vehicles - 70mm Outlets

Uprated Darkside Developments S3 Intercooler with Alloy End Tanks for Mk5 & Mk6 Platform Vehicles

www.darksidedevelopments.co.uk

Specs for your comparison:

Screenshot-2024-05-08-113340 hosted at ImgBB

Image Screenshot-2024-05-08-113340 hosted in ImgBB

ibb.co

 

[lemoncurd]

or get the best IC you can get in stock form factor:

Upgraded FMIC with plumbing

mk6 tdi fmic

kermatdi.com

 

[WWJSWD]

I was hunting for you - it looks like they've since sold out of stock, here is the closest comparison I could find for you; obviously price is higher than what I paid but it's the same item:

Turbo Intercooler Kit For VW GTI Jetta mk5 mk6 /Audi A3 fsi tsi 2.0t Gen2 06-10 | eBay

UPGRADE VW GOLF GTI 06-13 2.0T MK5 INTERCOOLER KIT (VERSION 2). Intercooler Aluminum Pipe kit. Intercooler kit. 1 x aluminum intercooler. oil cooler kit. core height: 16". Suspentions Part.

www.ebay.com

Still $200+ cheaper than the darkside one though:

Darkside Uprated S3 Intercooler for Mk5 / Mk6 Platform Vehicles - 70mm Outlets

Uprated Darkside Developments S3 Intercooler with Alloy End Tanks for Mk5 & Mk6 Platform Vehicles

www.darksidedevelopments.co.uk

Specs for your comparison:

Screenshot-2024-05-08-113340 hosted at ImgBB

Image Screenshot-2024-05-08-113340 hosted in ImgBB

ibb.co

Thank you for doing all the digging! I that makes sense the old one was sold out, I was searching the SKU that was in the corner of your old screen shot and still no luck.

or get the best IC you can get in stock form factor:

Upgraded FMIC with plumbing

mk6 tdi fmic

kermatdi.com

Good thing they offer Affirm payment plans

Also Mr. Curd, I had an interesting discussion with Malone Tuning about the Fuel Pressure Sensors. They actually recommended I get a 2200BAR sensor over the 2700BAR. My guess is since the voltage range is the same (0-5V I assume), the 2200BAR sensor gives better resolution/finer detail control over rail pressure. Now after working with them, the 2200BAR map is available in their "InstaTune" configurator... Is there a specific advantage to the 2700BAR sensor?