Absolute vs relative environmental impact - an example with a TDI I own

gulfcoastguy

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2012
Location
MS Gulfcoast
TDI
TDI sold, Mazda 3 purchased
We were doing that with Prius batteries 15 years ago. ;)

But that was largely due to the ridiculous price of replacement battery assemblies. Since the impending lawsuit, Toyota caved and set up their exchange program for them. Now they are about 1/3 the price they used to be, and they recycle as much as they can.

Toyota didn't sanction any cell replacements, despite having a very detailed OBD regimen to allow for diagnosis and such. Funny how some 50+ DTCs that the hybrid battery ECU can store all lead to the same solution: replace the battery.
True . I made the point because of how many times that I have been asked variations on “but what about the battery?” Usually followed by “where does your electricity come from?”.
 

tikal

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 18, 2001
Location
Southeast Texas
TDI
2004 Passat Wagon (chainless + 5 MT + GDE tune)
There's a relatively new European vehicle life cycle called "carculator" (https://carculator.psi.ch/). There's an on-line version that free to use, just need to register. Based on this model, here are the the results using the default parameters:




This appears to agree fairly well with the GREET results. "Cost of ownership" was deselected since that cost is mainly borne by the owner.
Very neat and interesting. Thanks! It does reinforce the idea that light duty diesel passenger vehicles have progressed, on the average, in the last decade a lot more than their gasoline and hybrid counterparts in terms of decreasing overall environmental impact. And this is without being diesel mild-hybrids which we never got here in North America.
 

Lug_Nut

TDIClub Enthusiast, Pre-Forum Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 20, 1998
Location
Sterling, MA. USA
TDI
2015 GSW 6M in S trim the other oil burners: 1967 two stroke Sonett 1988 Bolens DGT1700
Is that Camry a plug in hybrid? I'm guessing not. It would be interesting to see a similar comparison against a plug-in hybrid that does half it's mileage in electric only mode.
My Volt's operation has been about 80% on battery electric. The ICE is used to create electricity for only when the battery is run down to a minimum.
... this is what I'm driving today.


Probably not a lot of environmental impact for making this choice.
Now imagine how low that impact would be by switching your fuel to biodiesel made from post-consumer waste.....
We do a lot of camping and mountain driving with a cargo carrier so that is definitively a factor for us. In the future there might be some light towing ... so the extra torque is definitively desired in my view.
The increased torque is a help when starting off from a full stop, and moot once past about 20 mph. At that speed and higher the transmission gearing ratios can be selected to compensate for the differences of diesel torque but low rpm, vs. gasoline torque but at higher rpm. Just drop a gear.
And with electric, whether by itself in a BEV or series hybrid, or whether electric boost as in a parallel hybrid, there is more torque at rotation speeds slower than any ICE can idle, so start-off is even better.
One of the not so great things about hybrids is that you have the impacts from manufacturing both ICE and electric powertrains for one vehicle. Even though a 2015 model year vehicle is distant enough from today's manufacturing to have very little correlation with current manufacturing emissions.
That was an issue for me at first, but one hybrid is less of an impact that an alternative of a BEV and also an ICE. I've rationalized it to my satisfaction by thinking I've only got 3/4 the impact of a full electric car, and only 3/4 the impact of an ICE powered car, yet have a BEV commuter and a long distance tourer with only one registration-insurance-parking spot.
True. I made the point because of how many times that I have been asked variations on “but what about the battery?” Usually followed by “where does your electricity come from?”.
I'm fortunate to have a power company that purchases electric supplied by 80% non-fossil sources. I do have to keep in mind that power during my nightly off-peak charging has a much lower solar percentage (banked in batteries during the day), but is still mostly mostly non-fossil renewable.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Location
South of Boston
TDI
'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
Now imagine how low that impact would be by switching your fuel to biodiesel made from post-consumer waste.....
What's old is new again. I'd love to run bio: I moved away from running a B20 blend when I bought diesels that won't tolerate more than B5, and now I don't know where to get it.
 

Lug_Nut

TDIClub Enthusiast, Pre-Forum Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 20, 1998
Location
Sterling, MA. USA
TDI
2015 GSW 6M in S trim the other oil burners: 1967 two stroke Sonett 1988 Bolens DGT1700
No on-road B99 (unheated outdoor storage tank) until spring, but B20 is still available year-round at the pump. Previous winters they had B99 they'd dispense from a tanker truck parked in a garage, but that wasn't publicly stated.

site says on-road B99 is available

B5 and B20 at the pump
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Location
South of Boston
TDI
'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
I'll check out Cape Cod Biofuels. For years Loud Fuels in Falmouth advertised having B20 at the pump, but it was hit-or-miss.
 
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