A5 Climatic and Climatronic Air Conditioner AC and Radiator Condenser Fan

DanG144

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 2, 2007
Location
Chapin, South Carolina, USA
TDI
2005 A4 Jetta 5spd
Yes, just unscrew it. It is on a schrader valve.

I would also check for other readings, as in the first post of this thread.

But, simplistically, the action to replace is correct.

A word of warning; you are using the diagnostic messages just as the dealer would. It can get expensive.

That is why you check the readings from the sensor and other parameters to ensure that is the root cause of the problem.

PM me for a phone number if you need real time assistance using VCDS to get data.
 

Jettawolfs98

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 14, 2003
Location
Omaha,NE
TDI
JETTA TDI 2009, JSW 2013 DSG PANO
Well after switching the high pressure sensor, the coding is the same and no A/C. The fuses are OK.
I have to check the setting again and post it.
 

Jettawolfs98

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 14, 2003
Location
Omaha,NE
TDI
JETTA TDI 2009, JSW 2013 DSG PANO
the sensor was not working, I bought another and it works fine.
I got my A/C working now but I might need to take the car to the service shop because the A/C is not cold enough.

I need to contact idparts.com customer service about the sensor.

Thank You for all your help.
 

mirzagee

New member
Joined
Apr 5, 2014
Location
SIB
TDI
2.0
2004 b5 Passat AC Problem

I have B5 2004 Passat here in Saudi Arabia
my ac condenser fan was not working , ac was doing perfectly fine
i found out that i have blown 40 AMP fuse for FANS , i have replaced it
works fine but Fuse 5 for Climatronic Blown and i have replaced it
Now AC is not coming on . I don't have ambient sensor in my car , Please let me know what shuld i do to troubleshoot even relay 384 is not preset in my car
hmmmm
 

pcjr

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2002
Location
Felton, DE
TDI
2002, Jetta, Baltic, 2010 Jetta Sedan
Fans run under the Fan test.


14:01:31
005 Air-conditioning operation information N/A
008 Compressor current specified value 0.820 A
011 Compressor shut-off requirement Compressor active no shut-off condition is present
061 Refrigerant pressure-MUX Kaeltemitteldruck 6.4 bar
090 Temperature after evaporator-MUX Temperatur nach Verdampfer 33.7 °C


would the High Pressure Switch be bad ?
 

DanG144

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 2, 2007
Location
Chapin, South Carolina, USA
TDI
2005 A4 Jetta 5spd
There is no high pressure switch to jumper. Do not try to jumper the high pressure sensor.

Your compressor is demanding full output, but only producing 6.4 bar, about 94 psi. This is about what you would expect without a compressor at all on a 90 degree day (or if the radiator is 90 degrees.)

You may have a compressor not loading, or you may have a low charge. You need to get a low pressure side reading at the same time you get the high pressure reading. You can use the gauges to verify that the high pressure sensor is reading right, at the same time.

Your fans will not be asked to come on until you get over 125 psig (not really sure of the setpoint, but 125 or 150 or so.)
 

division12

New member
Joined
Feb 15, 2015
Location
Guam
TDI
Golf
Hello Dan,
sorry to revive this thread...I'm actually thinking of doing the RCV fix myself. My question is if our compressors don't have a clutch..is it safe to drive the car with the AC off if the compressor is evacuated and empty?
I was planning to have it evacuated and recharged at the shop but wanted to replace the RCV myself to save a little $$. To do that though I would need to drive the car home without freon in the compressor.
Update:
I have appended a section on fan troubleshooting. It is actually for a Mk VI, but the steps for the Mk V are very similar, but the names in the measuring value blocks may differ slightly.
The A5's come with either Climatronic or Climatic (replaces manual, and is a simplified Climatronic.)
These compressors do NOT have an electric clutch, but rather a coupling with a break-a-way feature that is supposed to fail when the compressor locks up, so your serpentine belt does not break (and perhaps ruin your timing belt.) Make sure the center shaft of your compressor is turning before doing any other troubleshooting.
The compressors have an electric valve (N280) Refrigerant Control Valve (RCV) which controls the compressor's variable displacement based on evaporator temperature. This is as opposed to the mechanical valve inside an earlier (A4) compressor. Of course there are what appear to be dozens of interlocks and control override features to complicate the picture - but they can be checked with VCDS.
The N280 RCV is prone to sticking. VW says the only fix is to replace the compressor, but many people have been able to replace them easily and successfully . The symptoms of this is greatly delayed and erratic cooling from your AC system with all other things being healthy, or simply no cooling.
The fans on the A5 are unfortunately no more reliable than the A4 fans have proven to be.
The fans on the old mk IV manual AC system should start in slow as soon as the AC was asked to turn on, it did not matter if the clutch engaged or not.
The fans on the MkV systems must see AC pressure rise to over about 140 psi before they come on in the AC mode.
Luckily there are very good troubleshooting aides for the Mk V system built into its controllers - a VCDS is invaluable.
Fans - Go into the Engine Controller, OUTPUT TESTS, and choose the one for fan testing circuit one (on BRM engines you must choose sequential tests, and start with the engine running, then go through the test sequence until you reach the fan test - note - expect your engine to die at the ASV closure test; do not restart it, just keep going through the test sequence). This should cycle BOTH fans from off or very low speed to full speed in a periodic cycle.
The fan controller is built into the large fan on these cars. It develops the pulsed power signal that drives both the large fan and the small fan; because of this both fans should always turn at the same speed.
There is another test in this module for the AC system, but it is of minimal value. It calls itself AC clutch relay control circuit test, but don't be fooled - your compressor has no clutch. It does test that the ECU can tell your compressor to unload. If you run this test, do so on a warmed car, and watch for the changes in fuel as the compressor is allowed to load and unload (on some models you can see the pressure cycle as well). Have the AC on, engine on and warmed, AC demanded full cool.
Then go to the AUTO HVAC controller ADV Measuring values:
Choose
refrigerant pressure
Air-Conditioning Operation information
Compressor Shut-off Requirement
compressor current, specified value
Temperature after evaporator
Look at these closely.
If you have .825 amps or so requested current that is max. The refrigerant pressure should be high, and the temperature after the evaporator should be low - 2 to 4 C or so.
A bar of pressure is roughly 15 psig, so you can do the math ( or go to a units conversion site on line and let it do the math for you) to see if your high pressure sender agrees with your mechanical gauge set.
If anyone figures out the details on the basic settings tests and the Output tests for the AUTO HVAC module, please post them in this thread.
The compressor shut-off requirement is the status of the interlocks, and can tell you what may be preventing operation. As long as it says "no shut-off signal is present" and your current is high, then the pressure should be high and the temperature after the evaporator is low. If the pressure is low (and you have a good charge in the system) then the RCV is probably bad. Do verify that the compressor is turning, which it must be unless the break-away protective system has broken free.
The most common failure on these cars AC system is the RCV, Refrigerant Control Valve built into the compressor.
Next is probably the fans.
Then the high pressure sensor.
AC Compressor Refrigerant Control Valve Make sure you get the proper valve for your compressor.
Some AC shut-off codes:
A/C cut-off Codes
0 = Compressor on (no shut-off requirement of the A/C compressor detected)
1 = Compressor off (refrigerant pressure was or is too high)
2 = Compressor off (blower motor circuit)
3 = Compressor off (refrigerant pressure was or is too low)
4 = Compressor off (display not currently intended)
5 = Compressor off (no engine start or no engine speed detected)
6 = Compressor off (A/C system switched off, ECON-mode activated)
7 = Compressor off (A/C system switched off, blower switch in position 0)
8 = Compressor off (outside temperature was less than 1.5°C and is still less than 2.5 °C)
9 = Compressor off (display not currently intended)
10 = Compressor off (Low voltage)
11 = Compressor off (display not currently intended)
12 = Compressor off (shut-off request from Engine Control Module (ECM) via CAN)
13 = Compressor off (voltage supply terminal 30 too high)
14 = Compressor off (Evaporator Temperature)
15 = Compressor off (display not currently intended)
16 = Compressor off (activation A/C Compressor Regulator Valve -N280- implausible)
17 = Compressor off (no signal or implausible signal from High Pressure Sensor -G65-)
18 = Compressor off (engine speed too high at standstill)
19 = Compressor off (shutoff request from Vehicle Electrical System Control Module via CAN)
20 = Compressor off (refrigerant loss-currently V8 Touareg only)
21 = Compressor off (Outside Temp < 2 degrees C, without recirc mode on)
22 = Compressor off (Outside Temp < 2 degrees C, Inside Temp. < 10 degrees C)

 

jettavex

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 17, 2013
Location
Whitby, Ontario
TDI
2015 Jetta TDI
Am I going crazy......

Hello DanG144 or some other knowledgale sparky,
I have read through pages and page of the thread you created concerning condenser fan troubleshooting. I am impressed with your knowledge and kindness in helping so many people. Initially I was brought to this thread while attempting to find a schematic on the system. Any links to useful information has been removed. Please kindly provide any insight you may have to my situation.
I have a 2006 Jetta A5 with a climatic HVAC control head. My fans stopped operating so I removed the assy. and applied power from the battery to the assy. harness. Still inop. Verified voltage from chassis harness, good. Applied power to the smaller fan and it ran great. I took the large fan motor apart, as I have done twice in the past, to check the brushes. All looked good so I figured the problem lies within the fan motor circuitry. For fun I reversed the polarity to the large fan and it worked in reverse to the direction indicated by the arrow and common sense to help pull the air through the rads. Figuring it was time to bite the bullet and purchase a new large fan. I plugged it into the harness and to my surprise nothing. Again applied direct battery voltage and nothing accept an initial spark when I touched my test lead to the + on the battery. Reversed leads and sure enough ran in reverse. Thinking I had a bad fan I exchanged it for another. Same experience with the 2nd Behr fan. I am loosing my mind dude! What am I doing wrong? Your advice is greatly appreciated for any help you may provide. :confused:
I will also post this on your initial thread.
Regards,
 

10then34

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2007
Location
North Dakota
TDI
'06 Jetta
I have the AC going out at traffic lights problem in my '06 TDI. When sitting in traffic, the engine overheats and I do get full cooling at highway speeds, so I believe it is probably in the fans or fan controller.

After doing the VCDS test (which didn't show the fans coming on), is there a way to test whether the fans are getting power otherwise ? At this point I am planning to pull the fans and replace them. Given the royal prices charged for the OEM units, I feel tempted to go with the chinese copies from rockauto. Anyone have experience with other than OEM on this part ?
 
Last edited:

10then34

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2007
Location
North Dakota
TDI
'06 Jetta
Update. Got new cooling fans from autohausaz. Turns out, my car is a random collection of parts, the parts numbers for the fans didn't match what is on file for the TDI, they come out of a 2.0l turbo gasser :rolleyes:

So, I hooked up the new units (Behr instead of VDO) outside of the car and ran the VCDS test, and voila they cycle through their variable speed settings :)

Now comes the interesting part. Getting the fan assembly back in place. Is there any trick to getting them past the intercooler tube ? Getting the old ones out was a royal pain in the arse. Please tell me: 'oh, you just loosen the dinglearm retaining nut at X12 and you are good to go! '
 

meerschm

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 18, 2009
Location
Fairfax county VA
TDI
2009 Jetta wagon DSG 08/08 205k buyback 1/8/18; replaced with 2017 Golf Wagon 4mo 1.8l CXBB
'oh, you just loosen the dinglearm retaining nut at X12 and you are good to go! '
 

meerschm

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 18, 2009
Location
Fairfax county VA
TDI
2009 Jetta wagon DSG 08/08 205k buyback 1/8/18; replaced with 2017 Golf Wagon 4mo 1.8l CXBB
I could not resist.

and i have no help to offer except my wishes for an easy job getting them in.
 

10then34

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2007
Location
North Dakota
TDI
'06 Jetta
I could not resist.

and i have no help to offer except my wishes for an easy job getting them in.
Success ! Got them back in. They run, the AC works and the coolant doesn't heat up at traffic lights.

I just noticed your location. Do you have a good independent TDI mechanic in Fairfax ?
 

meerschm

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 18, 2009
Location
Fairfax county VA
TDI
2009 Jetta wagon DSG 08/08 205k buyback 1/8/18; replaced with 2017 Golf Wagon 4mo 1.8l CXBB
I Have talked with Mike Fallon, (out kind of by Dulles), on the trusted mechanics list. Nice guy who seems to know these cars.

decided to do my own timing belt, and do other work myself.

you moving here from North Dakota?
 

TH3_FRB

Member
Joined
May 19, 2015
Location
Virginia Beach
TDI
MKV
I've got a GTI but found this thread and it seems to be the most comprehensive and active so here's my situation. Last fall I noticed my radiator fan would crank up to full speed after turning the car off. It would typically **** off within 30-60sec. AC was working fine. Went through the winter and eventually figured out that my small fan was dead. Just a few weeks ago I went to use the AC for the first time this year and got nothing - completely warm air. I finally got around to replacing the small fan. AC still doesn't work but the fans continue to crank up when I turn the car off - both fans running together as they should. I don't have a manifold to check the pressure in the system but ran diagnostics with VCDS.

0.0 Compressor Shut-Off Code (I can toggle it to 6 or 7 with the AC button or fan control)
0.820 A Compressor Current (specified)
1000 /min Compressor Speed (drops to 0 with AC off)
1.2 Nm Compressor Load (drops to 0 with AC off)
3.6 bar Coolant Pressure (no "refrigerant" pressure option. Bounces between 3-7 bar)
102.0°C Coolant Temperature
29.0°C Evaporator Temperature (I assume this is "after" evaporator - only temp option I have related to the evaporator)

This all seems to imply that my compressor is fine and the electric system is working properly (aside from the radiator fans cranking up). When I initially realized the AC wasn't working I scanned and got fault 00229 Refrigerant Pressure 002 - Lower Limit Exceeded (intermittent). That hasn't come back since clearing it a few weeks ago. I ordered a new high pressure switch hoping that's what failed and the 229 fault code was a sign that it was on the way out at some point over the winter. From what I understand a bad switch won't throw a fault code, only a short in the connection. Does the switch control the RCV? I haven't replaced the switch yet. I also decided to order a new RCV last night because that's the other likely culprit but I'd rather not pay to have the system evacuated and filled if not necessary.

So, what are the odds it's just the high pressure switch gone bad? Would that also be causing my radiator fans to crank up after turning the car off?

Then go to the AUTO HVAC controller ADV Measuring values:
Choose
refrigerant pressure
Air-Conditioning Operation information
Compressor Shut-off Requirement
compressor current, specified value
Temperature after evaporator

Look at these closely.
If you have .825 amps or so requested current that is max. The refrigerant pressure should be high, and the temperature after the evaporator should be low - 2 to 4 C or so.

A bar of pressure is roughly 15 psig, so you can do the math ( or go to a units conversion site on line and let it do the math for you) to see if your high pressure sender agrees with your mechanical gauge set.

If anyone figures out the details on the basic settings tests and the Output tests for the AUTO HVAC module, please post them in this thread.

The compressor shut-off requirement is the status of the interlocks, and can tell you what may be preventing operation. As long as it says "no shut-off signal is present" and your current is high, then the pressure should be high and the temperature after the evaporator is low. If the pressure is low (and you have a good charge in the system) then the RCV is probably bad. Do verify that the compressor is turning, which it must be unless the break-away protective system has broken free.

The most common failure on these cars AC system is the RCV, Refrigerant Control Valve built into the compressor.
Next is probably the fans.
Then the high pressure sensor.
 

meerschm

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 18, 2009
Location
Fairfax county VA
TDI
2009 Jetta wagon DSG 08/08 205k buyback 1/8/18; replaced with 2017 Golf Wagon 4mo 1.8l CXBB
The switch would impact the shut off code, I think,

the current is a read of what the system is asking the compressor to do, and that value is asking for full volume.

looks to me like you may not have enough R134a.

or a stuck valve.

those pressures are what you would expect from just some liquid in the system.

if it were me,

I would order the valve, have the R134a recovered. (and see if they can verify how much came out) if there was little in the system, then you have to find the leak.

if it was half to full, suspect the valve, and replace, then re-fill with the specified weight of R134a.
 
Last edited:

meerschm

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 18, 2009
Location
Fairfax county VA
TDI
2009 Jetta wagon DSG 08/08 205k buyback 1/8/18; replaced with 2017 Golf Wagon 4mo 1.8l CXBB
Anyone else look closely at the values for compressor load?

it varies with speed and load.

wondering where it comes from, and if it could be used to validate stuck valves.

(with a stuck valve, does it stay on one value?)
 

TH3_FRB

Member
Joined
May 19, 2015
Location
Virginia Beach
TDI
MKV
One other item of note - I can sense a slight increase in engine load when I hit the AC button - another sign that the compressor is working fine as best I can tell....or at least engaging.

The switch would impact the shut off code, I think,

the current is a read of what the system is asking the compressor to do, and that value is asking for full volume.

looks to me like you may not have enough R134a.

or a stuck valve.

those pressures are what you would expect from just some liquid in the system.

if it were me,

I would order the valve, have the R134a recovered. (and see if they can verify how much came out) if there was little in the system, then you have to find the leak.

if it was half to full, suspect the valve, and replace, then re-fill with the specified weight of R134a.
 

meerschm

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 18, 2009
Location
Fairfax county VA
TDI
2009 Jetta wagon DSG 08/08 205k buyback 1/8/18; replaced with 2017 Golf Wagon 4mo 1.8l CXBB
So what does the compressor load value look like? seems on the low side.

I see mine jump to 2 when I start the ac, and then pretty quick to 5-7 nm range.
 

10then34

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2007
Location
North Dakota
TDI
'06 Jetta
I Have talked with Mike Fallon, (out kind of by Dulles), on the trusted mechanics list. Nice guy who seems to know these cars.

decided to do my own timing belt, and do other work myself.

you moving here from North Dakota?
I have a place in Maryland, the car lives there.
 

TH3_FRB

Member
Joined
May 19, 2015
Location
Virginia Beach
TDI
MKV
Well, Put the new switch in today and still no AC. Fans still kick up after I turn the car off too. I have a replacement RCV but now need to go have the system evacuated before I can put in...and hope that's the issue. Debating purchasing an inexpensive set of gauges and manifold to test the pressures myself first.
 

TH3_FRB

Member
Joined
May 19, 2015
Location
Virginia Beach
TDI
MKV
Could a failed RCV somehow release all of the system charge? I replaced the high pressure switch and the "00229 Refrigerant Pressure 002 - Lower Limit Exceeded" code came back. I took that as progress because the switch is now working again and at least giving me a system status. So I bought a set of gauges and manifold and there is zero pressure on both high and low side. Somewhere over the winter everything vanished. Could it have been from either the switch or valve?
 

TH3_FRB

Member
Joined
May 19, 2015
Location
Virginia Beach
TDI
MKV
Update - I swapped in the new RCV. There were no signs of any damage to the original but I haven't tried to dismantle it yet to look for issues. After a little learning curve with my manifold and gauges I recharged the system with a single 12oz can of r134a - no leak sealers or other additives. AC runs cold again as of my morning commute. Good thing because it is hitting over 100 today with the heat index. I realize 12oz isn't a full charge but I had to get to work and the AC was cooling well. Unfortunately, my fans still run on high after a drive. Only time will tell if I have a leak in the system or if the charge somehow escaped due to the switch or valve. At least I know both are new and functioning properly and my compressor is in good shape.
 

forumoto

New member
Joined
Aug 23, 2015
Location
GH
TDI
Jetta
I have a similar issue i have being battling, my case goes like this..

When i scan the A/c there is no fault inside the module, everything is fine, now someone has changed the A/C motor..

As an electrician i checked all wiring and all is fine..

BUT

When you switch on the a/c it does not come on, i mean the cooling do not come on,

i have unplug the High pressure sensor and it quickly trigger fault code in the A/c module, now when i plug it and erase the fault code, it is gone... yet the A/c wont come on neither the high speed fan.

But when you check the fan by unplugging the ECT sensor on the engine, the HIGH FAN come on quickly.

The car low speed fan also works fine..

Now when you switch on the A/C from the a/c module, the light that indicate that the a/c button is ON, this lite also comes on as soon as you turn the dial and push the A/c button, you will see the light on but the A/c wont kick on the motor..

now the pressure in the a/c light has being checked and it is 16 bar.

Please i seek to know what might be causing this that when the a/c is switch on it is not turning on the motor or the cooling or the high fan as well..

please help me i need advise and what to think of

this is Jetta 2008 model
 
Last edited:

DanG144

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 2, 2007
Location
Chapin, South Carolina, USA
TDI
2005 A4 Jetta 5spd
I have a similar issue i have being battling, my case goes like this..

When i scan the A/c there is no fault inside the module, everything is fine, now someone has changed the A/C motor.. Was the interior fan replaced? Or the radiator fans? or the A/C belt driven compressor?

As an electrician i checked all wiring and all is fine..

BUT

When you switch on the a/c it does not come on, i mean the cooling do not come on,

i have unplug the High pressure sensor and it quickly trigger fault code in the A/c module, now when i plug it and erase the fault code, it is gone... yet the A/c wont come on neither the high speed fan.

But when you check the fan by unplugging the ECT sensor on the engine, the HIGH FAN come on quickly.

The car low speed fan also works fine..

Now when you switch on the A/C from the a/c module, the light that indicate that the a/c button is ON, this lite also comes on as soon as you turn the dial and push the A/c button, you will see the light on but the A/c wont kick on the motor..

now the pressure in the a/c light has being checked and it is 16 bar.

Please i seek to know what might be causing this that when the a/c is switch on it is not turning on the motor or the cooling or the high fan as well..

please help me i need advise and what to think of

this is Jetta 2008 model
This car does not have an electric clutch in the belt driven A/C compressor; check that the center shaft is turning at all times with the belt driven outer pulley. There is a "clutch plate hub" that is a breakaway coupling instead of an electric clutch.

http://www.intl2008.com/products/sanden+pxe14+/+pxe16+clutch+plate+hub.htm shows a picture of this clutch plate hub.

When the pressure in your system is over about 10 bar, then the radiator fans should come on. They will not come on as soon as the AC button is replaced.

They should have been on when the pressure was 16 bar.

Have you used measuring values or advanced measuring values to check your compressor cut-off codes? As mentioned in the first post of this thread.
 
D

dlm308rem

Guest
Excellent write up DanG144.

Address 08: Auto HVAC (1K0 820 047 EC)

21:13:10
16.0 Compressor Shut-Off Code
0.000 A Compressor Current (actual)
0.000 A Compressor Current (specified)
0 /min Compressor Speed
0.0 Nm Compressor Load
8.0 bar Coolant Pressure
10.0 % Radiator Fan Activation (actual)
0.0 % Radiator Fan Activation (spec.)
OFF Engine Speed Increase
27.0°C Outside Temp. (unfiltered)
26.5°C Outside Temp. (filtered)
37.0°C Evaporator Temperature

Replaced the n280 rcv, (polar bear 70.69 shipping included) and all is working great, oil was clear amber color, what a relief.

Thanks,
Dan

Update:
I have appended a section on fan troubleshooting. It is actually for a Mk VI, but the steps for the Mk V are very similar, but the names in the measuring value blocks may differ slightly.

The A5's come with either Climatronic or Climatic (replaces manual, and is a simplified Climatronic.)

These compressors do NOT have an electric clutch, but rather a coupling with a break-a-way feature that is supposed to fail when the compressor locks up, so your serpentine belt does not break (and perhaps ruin your timing belt.) Make sure the center shaft of your compressor is turning before doing any other troubleshooting.

The compressors have an electric valve (N280) Refrigerant Control Valve (RCV) which controls the compressor's variable displacement based on evaporator temperature. This is as opposed to the mechanical valve inside an earlier (A4) compressor. Of course there are what appear to be dozens of interlocks and control override features to complicate the picture - but they can be checked with VCDS.

The N280 RCV is prone to sticking. VW says the only fix is to replace the compressor, but many people have been able to replace them easily and successfully . The symptoms of this is greatly delayed and erratic cooling from your AC system with all other things being healthy, or simply no cooling.

The fans on the A5 are unfortunately no more reliable than the A4 fans have proven to be.

The fans on the old mk IV manual AC system should start in slow as soon as the AC was asked to turn on, it did not matter if the clutch engaged or not.

The fans on the MkV systems must see AC pressure rise to over about 140 psi before they come on in the AC mode.

Luckily there are very good troubleshooting aides for the Mk V system built into its controllers - a VCDS is invaluable.

Fans - Go into the Engine Controller, OUTPUT TESTS, and choose the one for fan testing circuit one (on BRM engines you must choose sequential tests, and start with the engine running, then go through the test sequence until you reach the fan test - note - expect your engine to die at the ASV closure test; do not restart it, just keep going through the test sequence). This should cycle BOTH fans from off or very low speed to full speed in a periodic cycle.

The fan controller is built into the large fan on these cars. It develops the pulsed power signal that drives both the large fan and the small fan; because of this both fans should always turn at the same speed.

There is another test in this module for the AC system, but it is of minimal value. It calls itself AC clutch relay control circuit test, but don't be fooled - your compressor has no clutch. It does test that the ECU can tell your compressor to unload. If you run this test, do so on a warmed car, and watch for the changes in fuel as the compressor is allowed to load and unload (on some models you can see the pressure cycle as well). Have the AC on, engine on and warmed, AC demanded full cool.

Then go to the AUTO HVAC controller ADV Measuring values:
Choose
refrigerant pressure
Air-Conditioning Operation information
Compressor Shut-off Requirement
compressor current, specified value
Temperature after evaporator

Look at these closely.
If you have .825 amps or so requested current that is max. The refrigerant pressure should be high, and the temperature after the evaporator should be low - 2 to 4 C or so.

A bar of pressure is roughly 15 psig, so you can do the math ( or go to a units conversion site on line and let it do the math for you) to see if your high pressure sender agrees with your mechanical gauge set.

If anyone figures out the details on the basic settings tests and the Output tests for the AUTO HVAC module, please post them in this thread.

The compressor shut-off requirement is the status of the interlocks, and can tell you what may be preventing operation. As long as it says "no shut-off signal is present" and your current is high, then the pressure should be high and the temperature after the evaporator is low. If the pressure is low (and you have a good charge in the system) then the RCV is probably bad. Do verify that the compressor is turning, which it must be unless the break-away protective system has broken free.

The most common failure on these cars AC system is the RCV, Refrigerant Control Valve built into the compressor.
Next is probably the fans.
Then the high pressure sensor.

AC Compressor Refrigerant Control Valve Make sure you get the proper valve for your compressor.

Some AC shut-off codes:
A/C cut-off Codes
0 = Compressor on (no shut-off requirement of the A/C compressor detected)
1 = Compressor off (refrigerant pressure was or is too high)
2 = Compressor off (blower motor circuit)
3 = Compressor off (refrigerant pressure was or is too low)
4 = Compressor off (display not currently intended)
5 = Compressor off (no engine start or no engine speed detected)
6 = Compressor off (A/C system switched off, ECON-mode activated)
7 = Compressor off (A/C system switched off, blower switch in position 0)
8 = Compressor off (outside temperature was less than 1.5°C and is still less than 2.5 °C)
9 = Compressor off (display not currently intended)
10 = Compressor off (Low voltage)
11 = Compressor off (display not currently intended)
12 = Compressor off (shut-off request from Engine Control Module (ECM) via CAN)
13 = Compressor off (voltage supply terminal 30 too high)
14 = Compressor off (Evaporator Temperature)
15 = Compressor off (display not currently intended)
16 = Compressor off (activation A/C Compressor Regulator Valve -N280- implausible)
17 = Compressor off (no signal or implausible signal from High Pressure Sensor -G65-)
18 = Compressor off (engine speed too high at standstill)
19 = Compressor off (shutoff request from Vehicle Electrical System Control Module via CAN)
20 = Compressor off (refrigerant loss-currently V8 Touareg only)
21 = Compressor off (Outside Temp < 2 degrees C, without recirc mode on)
22 = Compressor off (Outside Temp < 2 degrees C, Inside Temp. < 10 degrees C)

 
Last edited:
D

dlm308rem

Guest
Excellent write up DanG144.

Address 08: Auto HVAC (1K0 820 047 EC)

21:13:10
16.0 Compressor Shut-Off Code
0.000 A Compressor Current (actual)
0.000 A Compressor Current (specified)
0 /min Compressor Speed
0.0 Nm Compressor Load
8.0 bar Coolant Pressure
10.0 % Radiator Fan Activation (actual)
0.0 % Radiator Fan Activation (spec.)
OFF Engine Speed Increase
27.0°C Outside Temp. (unfiltered)
26.5°C Outside Temp. (filtered)
37.0°C Evaporator Temperature

Replaced the n280 rcv (pxe13-16 (bolt on) $61.54 from polar bear, Inc) and all is working great. The unit started failing at about 152250, at least when I noticed it, Long delay before coming on. I do not drive it often. It quit at about 153500 car now has 154542. Oil looked good on the old unit coming out, light amber/clear color, no visible sign of metal. Total repair time 30 minutes, 8 on the evac, 8 on the removal and replacement of valve 10 minutes of vacuum, 4 to replace the recovered refrigerant.

Thanks DanG144,
Dan

Update:
I have appended a section on fan troubleshooting. It is actually for a Mk VI, but the steps for the Mk V are very similar, but the names in the measuring value blocks may differ slightly.

The A5's come with either Climatronic or Climatic (replaces manual, and is a simplified Climatronic.)

These compressors do NOT have an electric clutch, but rather a coupling with a break-a-way feature that is supposed to fail when the compressor locks up, so your serpentine belt does not break (and perhaps ruin your timing belt.) Make sure the center shaft of your compressor is turning before doing any other troubleshooting.

The compressors have an electric valve (N280) Refrigerant Control Valve (RCV) which controls the compressor's variable displacement based on evaporator temperature. This is as opposed to the mechanical valve inside an earlier (A4) compressor. Of course there are what appear to be dozens of interlocks and control override features to complicate the picture - but they can be checked with VCDS.

The N280 RCV is prone to sticking. VW says the only fix is to replace the compressor, but many people have been able to replace them easily and successfully . The symptoms of this is greatly delayed and erratic cooling from your AC system with all other things being healthy, or simply no cooling.

The fans on the A5 are unfortunately no more reliable than the A4 fans have proven to be.

The fans on the old mk IV manual AC system should start in slow as soon as the AC was asked to turn on, it did not matter if the clutch engaged or not.

The fans on the MkV systems must see AC pressure rise to over about 140 psi before they come on in the AC mode.

Luckily there are very good troubleshooting aides for the Mk V system built into its controllers - a VCDS is invaluable.

Fans - Go into the Engine Controller, OUTPUT TESTS, and choose the one for fan testing circuit one (on BRM engines you must choose sequential tests, and start with the engine running, then go through the test sequence until you reach the fan test - note - expect your engine to die at the ASV closure test; do not restart it, just keep going through the test sequence). This should cycle BOTH fans from off or very low speed to full speed in a periodic cycle.

The fan controller is built into the large fan on these cars. It develops the pulsed power signal that drives both the large fan and the small fan; because of this both fans should always turn at the same speed.

There is another test in this module for the AC system, but it is of minimal value. It calls itself AC clutch relay control circuit test, but don't be fooled - your compressor has no clutch. It does test that the ECU can tell your compressor to unload. If you run this test, do so on a warmed car, and watch for the changes in fuel as the compressor is allowed to load and unload (on some models you can see the pressure cycle as well). Have the AC on, engine on and warmed, AC demanded full cool.

Then go to the AUTO HVAC controller ADV Measuring values:
Choose
refrigerant pressure
Air-Conditioning Operation information
Compressor Shut-off Requirement
compressor current, specified value
Temperature after evaporator

Look at these closely.
If you have .825 amps or so requested current that is max. The refrigerant pressure should be high, and the temperature after the evaporator should be low - 2 to 4 C or so.

A bar of pressure is roughly 15 psig, so you can do the math ( or go to a units conversion site on line and let it do the math for you) to see if your high pressure sender agrees with your mechanical gauge set.

If anyone figures out the details on the basic settings tests and the Output tests for the AUTO HVAC module, please post them in this thread.

The compressor shut-off requirement is the status of the interlocks, and can tell you what may be preventing operation. As long as it says "no shut-off signal is present" and your current is high, then the pressure should be high and the temperature after the evaporator is low. If the pressure is low (and you have a good charge in the system) then the RCV is probably bad. Do verify that the compressor is turning, which it must be unless the break-away protective system has broken free.

The most common failure on these cars AC system is the RCV, Refrigerant Control Valve built into the compressor.
Next is probably the fans.
Then the high pressure sensor.

AC Compressor Refrigerant Control Valve Make sure you get the proper valve for your compressor.

Some AC shut-off codes:
A/C cut-off Codes
0 = Compressor on (no shut-off requirement of the A/C compressor detected)
1 = Compressor off (refrigerant pressure was or is too high)
2 = Compressor off (blower motor circuit)
3 = Compressor off (refrigerant pressure was or is too low)
4 = Compressor off (display not currently intended)
5 = Compressor off (no engine start or no engine speed detected)
6 = Compressor off (A/C system switched off, ECON-mode activated)
7 = Compressor off (A/C system switched off, blower switch in position 0)
8 = Compressor off (outside temperature was less than 1.5°C and is still less than 2.5 °C)
9 = Compressor off (display not currently intended)
10 = Compressor off (Low voltage)
11 = Compressor off (display not currently intended)
12 = Compressor off (shut-off request from Engine Control Module (ECM) via CAN)
13 = Compressor off (voltage supply terminal 30 too high)
14 = Compressor off (Evaporator Temperature)
15 = Compressor off (display not currently intended)
16 = Compressor off (activation A/C Compressor Regulator Valve -N280- implausible)
17 = Compressor off (no signal or implausible signal from High Pressure Sensor -G65-)
18 = Compressor off (engine speed too high at standstill)
19 = Compressor off (shutoff request from Vehicle Electrical System Control Module via CAN)
20 = Compressor off (refrigerant loss-currently V8 Touareg only)
21 = Compressor off (Outside Temp < 2 degrees C, without recirc mode on)
22 = Compressor off (Outside Temp < 2 degrees C, Inside Temp. < 10 degrees C)

 
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