A4 - Water pump - OEM Plastic VS. Aftermarket Cast Iron impeller --- Pictures

[shuswap]

LOL. The trick is to send them a meeting invite to the wrong room or wrong time, and then "accidentally" not send them the meeting update. The old switcheroo. Just play musical chairs in the meeting and then make sure they are the ones left without a chair. Sorry.....no chair for you....you have to leave now.

Sadly, many a great manufacturer has lost their most faithful customers when accountants and other pencil-pushers were given the leadership. Problem is....at 5-10 per sale it does add up to some real coin....until you factor in the cost of recall or the loss of customer support.

 

[Chad@EuroTec]

Lol, I hope saving 5 or 10 bucks on the overall cost of the vehicle didn't drive that decision.

$10 per car X 400,000 vehicles = $4 million!!!

Any manufacturer, of any product, will find a way to cheapen the manufacturing cost of their product for financial gain, if the gain is more than the loss they stand to take from cheapening. This is especially true with cars, produced in such large quantities. Even the highest end models are not immune to this!

 

[POWERSTROKE]

I had a metal impeller water pump installed at my timing belt change. It started leaking shortly after. I put a new plastic pump back in as the replacement after much research on what brand to use. I'm not an engineer, but i do think there is a reason for the plastic impeller. It reminds me of my 70 beetle, and how every toolbag removed the thermostats on those air cooled engines to get more airflow. People would remove the thermostats and air flaps and the cars ran too cool. We aren't as smart, or at least in a close enough circle to these engineers to verify why they do things. It's not always bean counting either.

 

[ketchumj]

Can you replace the water pump without doing a timing belt change?

My TB was changed out 20k ago, but I think the water pump is on the fritz. Overheats at highway speeds, but not at idle. Changed both fans, since the drivers side was out. Thought that would fix it, but I still have the overheat after running 70 for a while.

 

[Genesis]

Before you pull the water pump (which DOES effectively require a timing belt change) check the thermostat as that's much easier to get to. They usually fail open (engine does not come up to temperature properly -- or at all except under hot conditions and hard driving!) but not always -- sometimes they fail closed. These engines do not reject much waste heat except under very hard running and I've had a thermostat fail open that would not bring the temperature gauge beyond half-way toward 190F even when driving around town for a couple of hours!

Note that most of the time the thermostat will look just fine when removed but may still be defective -- the only way to know is to pull it and stick it in a pot of water with a thermometer as you raise the temperature to see if and when it opens, or just replace it.

Buy the outlet at the same time (it's just a few bucks) as the tabs usually break when you remove the old one.

If you're overheating on the highway the "I hope it's the problem" issues are the thermostat and then the water pump.

 

[Curious Chris]

The plastic water pump impeller on my daughter's 2002 just came apart in pieces around 132,000. Of course it was the original water pump which is why I change mine on every timing belt change.

 

[ketchumj]

I was hoping the thermostat, but in my gut I think it is the water pump.

The car warms up quick to 190 - less than 2 miles. At speeds up to 50mph.

I will pick up a thermostat and change it out. cheap enough. I just dont want to have to do a TB change. mabe I can find a trusted TDI mech down here in south texas.

 

[ketchumj]

Changed the thermostat and raidiator hose yesterday. I was able to spin the impelled on the water pump with my finger. Damn.

So. Can I change the pump without pulling timing belt?

One shop I checked with was going to charge at least 5 hours of labor to do the water pump. Might as well do the timing belt for that cost.

Any quality vs mechanics in corpus christi texas?

 

[Genesis]

Ketchum, I don't see how; the belt and other associated things are in the way.

 

[LNXGUY]

Yup, WP is apart of the TB job anyhow, just do the entire thing and not worry for another 100,000 miles.

 

[ymz]

A water pump replacement is almost the same as a timing belt system replacement... There used to be a fellow from Corpus Christie on here ([FONT=&quot]UserID “Mike the TDI Killer" [/FONT][FONT=&quot]http://forums.tdiclub.com/member.php?u=75650 ) who used to do belts, but he hasn't showed up in a while... Closest well-regarded TDI techs would be in the Austin area...

I'd say you're probably more than capable of doing this yourself, if you can spare the time and have a place to work (and have a bunch of tools...)

Yuri
[/FONT]

 

[ketchumj]

Yuri

Thanks for the vote of confidence. I may try to tackle the job. I have all the gear, just don't want to muck it up.

Jän

 

[ketchumj]

Who has the best deal on a complete timing belt kit? Who knows what parts weren't changed on the last go around.

Sent from my PG86100 using Tapatalk 2

 

[audiqtro]

the last alphabet p/n A only means brand new AX means remanufactured

 

[audiqtro]

if its me while im in there might as well get the timing belt kit assy with water pump and tensioner,damper,at the same time chek ur serpentine belt and tensioner spin the roller if noisy and play replace due to dont hav to worry about what goes next.

 

[ALL4AMD]

Who has the best deal on a complete timing belt kit? Who knows what parts weren't changed on the last go around.

Sent from my PG86100 using Tapatalk 2

http://www.metalmanparts.com/

Has a complete kit for $280 shipped. Friend of mine used them on his golf TDI and tomorrow I get my kit too.

 

[ketchumj]

Awesome. Thanks

 

[vwdieseling]

The plastic impellers were a VW invention. The first prototypes were made of PCP plastic and couldn't handle the heat. The aftermarket took over from there, and started making cast iron and aluminum impeller pumps. VW stated that due to weight of impeller that this would cause premature shaft failure. This was not the case. Febi, Empi and most VW aftermarket parts makers only make metal impellers. The reason I believe that VW was against them is due to G8 and G12 coolant sales. The G coolants were designed to protect the plastics in VW coolant systems. The second improved versions were made of HCH plastic and could handle engine temps of 236 degrees F. Thr plastic impellers are notorious for comming apart.

 

[Genesis]

On this point it's rather amusing; I've pulled these out of a car that was only serviced by authorized VW dealers in the past and guess what -- metal impeller

So obviously some dealers don't believe that (and are not interested in screaming customers when a water pump fails and costs $800 to change) either.

 

[tditom]

Yuri

Thanks for the vote of confidence. I may try to tackle the job. I have all the gear, just don't want to muck it up.

Jän

Jan-
I am in San Antonio and can help you with your timing belt if you'd like. I've done a half dozen or so.

I prefer the "plastic" (actually resin) water pump myself but have used both.

dieselgeek here in San Antonio has a complete timing belt kit for around $300.

PM me if you want to get together on yours.

 

[vwdieseling]

The plastic water pump impeller on my daughter's 2002 just came apart in pieces around 132,000. Of course it was the original water pump which is why I change mine on every timing belt change.

This was the problem with the PCP plastic impellers. The HCH plastic has a higher operating temp range 236 F. The PCP impellers were 195 F, in 2003 or 2004 VW went to HCH, and also a stronger timing belt. The TDI belt change interval was increased from 40,000 miles to 65,000 miles. This was also the case on the gassers as well.

 

[ymz]

...in 2003 or 2004 VW went to HCH, and also a stronger timing belt. The TDI belt change interval was increased from 40,000 miles to 65,000 miles.

The timing belt interval for the TDIs was increased from 40/60,000 (automatic/standard) miles for the 2002 model year through the introduction of a longer-lasting belt and new design tensioner late in the 2001 model year. For the 2003 model they changed the design of the large idler's bearing, increasing the replacement interval to 100,000 miles (a figure that many feel is slightly excessive... ~90,000 miles being preferred).

Yuri

 

[vwdieseling]

The timing belt interval for the TDIs was increased from 40/60,000 (automatic/standard) miles for the 2002 model year through the introduction of a longer-lasting belt and new design tensioner late in the 2001 model year. For the 2003 model they changed the design of the large idler's bearing, increasing the replacement interval to 100,000 miles (a figure that many feel is slightly excessive... ~90,000 miles being preferred).

Yuri

Thanks, I have two VW's my diesel and gasser. I've had em so long and maintained em information runs togther in my head. I knew it was something like that. I know my 2000 TDI still has the 40,000 mile change ribbed belt sticker on front of the dog house. Its got 187,000 miles and has had two belt changes. When I did the first one it had an OEM VW dealer belt, the waterpump was falling apart. It was a metal impeller, I bought it used. The previous owners ran it into the ground.

 

[Niner]

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I use a small privite garage North of Toronto Canada and all he works on is TDI's (New and Older ones). He has replaced 4 in the last 3 months. He will not replace a Timing belt unless replaces the Water Pump or it has been replaced it a Cast Iron Impeller. I replaced my own Timing belt at 90000 KM and my water pump went at 145000KM. So I installed a new water Pump with a Long Life (140000 KM) Timing Belt..

And there you have it, you replaced your timing belt without replacing your water pump at the same time... you ALWAYS do both at the same time. Read the Bentleys manual, and look at timing belt kits, they all come with new water pumps. Mistake is on you.

 

[tditom]

... Read the Bentleys manual, and look at timing belt kits, they all come with new water pumps. Mistake is on you.

Bentley will not tell you to replace the waterpump with the timing belt. Hell, it doesn't even dictate the replacement of the rollers each time.

 

[organbuilder]

So is part# 1 06A 198 119 plastic or cast iron, because this is whats in my gas 2003 jetta
2L. Plastic one just failed on my 2003 TDI jetta.

 

[phaser]

Here's a metal one for the 2003 ALH TDI, but the OE part number is different.

http://www.idparts.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=308

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[turbocharged798]

Latest hepu pump I got from metalman now has a stamped steel impeller instead of the cast one.