A4 suspension upgrade...

yaknowthatguy

Active member
Joined
Nov 27, 2007
Location
Fort Collins, CO
TDI
2000 Jetta 5spd
Hey gang -

Tried going through the prior posts on suspension upgrades, but didn't really find what I was looking for. My apologies if this has been covered already, I am surely a VW n00b.

I bought a 2000 Jetta a few months ago. Stoked on the car. Ultrastoked on the mileage (been floating around 50 combined hwy/city). I love the car, wife not so stoked on it (complains seats are uncomfy...she sure loves her Escape with heated leather).

Anyway, suspension's getting a bit worn, and it's time to replace it I think. And that's my dilemma - I am totally not sure what to buy. I'd like to maintain a comfy ride, perhaps improve cornering a bit, and keep it as a good daily driver (I don't plan to autox at all). I have NO idea what to buy. I've seen suggestions on Shine, Koni, Eibach, etc., but don't have enough background to make a decision. I'd rather not blow $1500 on suspension.... but will if I have to. A good blend of comfort, performance and price is what I'm shooting for. Roads in my area are not the best, and the freeway between Fort Collins and Denver needs work....so anything that rides rigid is not going to work well for me.

So, in short - if you've got suggestions for the new kid on what suspension to buy, I'd love to hear them.

Thanks!
Yaknowthatguy
 

diezlpwr

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2007
Location
colonia, nj
TDI
04 golf tdi
i have bilstein sport shocks w/ H&R sport springs on mine. the ride is considerably stiffer than stock but comfortable in my opinion. overall i think its a great setup.
 

Ed's TDI

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 30, 2001
Location
Victoria, BC, Canada
TDI
2001 Bora and 2016 Touareg
You can get better handling and maintain your ride comfort with a decent set of dampers and a rear swaybar. Koni Reds are a good set of shocks/struts that will firm up the handling without sacificing the ride, and the rear swaybar will definitely tighten things up, especially considering VW's are engineered with understeer and this little addition will decrease it.

I'd advise staying away from lowering springs as the front suspension geometry is designed to be at factory ride height. The geometry isn't optimized for lowering, unless you use something like Sport spindles from H2 Sport.
 

Marchmen

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2006
Location
Toronto
TDI
2012 Golf TDI
I've recently purchased Koni Yellow shocks/struts and have gone with the same H&R Sport springs. I've yet to have them installed, but have driven with this set-up and is 'less comfortable' than stock.

~~~
I'd focus on a new set of shocks/struts as well as springs as coilovers would be a little on the expensive side. What you are going to find is that not one person has driven with every set-up available, so it's going to get down to personal opinions.

I'd stay away from race springs - looking at either the soft of sport (depending on how low you want the car to ride).
 

hevster1

Vendor
Joined
Nov 14, 2005
Location
Columbia NJ
TDI
98 NB
Do not do Bilstein TC's or sports or Koni yellows without at the very least soft sport springs. Koni reds or FSD's are a good choice. I recently drove a golf with Kyb AGX and soft sport springs which had a great ride. It lowered the car a bit though which i didn't want. After suffering with Tc's for almost 100k i switched to FSD's. My back thanked me.
 

Joe Fisher

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 27, 2002
Location
Kalispell, MT
TDI
NA
Different strokes I guess. I have some Bilstein TC's and love them! I notice I don't hit my skidplate going over driveway bumps and speedbumps, but other than that, I don't notice any untoward stiffness at all!



hevster1 said:
Do not do Bilstein TC's or sports or Koni yellows without at the very least soft sport springs. Koni reds or FSD's are a good choice. I recently drove a golf with Kyb AGX and soft sport springs which had a great ride. It lowered the car a bit though which i didn't want. After suffering with Tc's for almost 100k i switched to FSD's. My back thanked me.
 

gern_blanston

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2002
Location
PNW
TDI
Golf, '03, Silver
diezlpwr said:
i have bilstein sport shocks w/ H&R sport springs on mine. the ride is considerably stiffer than stock but comfortable in my opinion. overall i think its a great setup.
Ditto.
 

LNXGUY

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 10, 2004
Location
Barrie, Ont, Canada
TDI
'05 Jetta TDI Wagon
I also run Bilstein Sports with H&R Sport springs. If you are looking for a comfortable setup similar to stock, this isn't it.

Stock springs, along with some adjustable Koni yellows and a RSB would make things quite a bit better then the stock setup (Watch out for the oversteer with the RSB though, you might wanna leave that out of the equation)
 

Rally-Fast

Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2007
Location
West Chester or Szczecin, Poland
TDI
03 Jetta Sedan TDi
So are there aftermarket springs that are the same length as stock (do not lower the car)?

I too want to dial out some of the softness in my daily driver, and am tired of scraping the skidplate on small bumps. An ideal spring (to me) would raise the front 1/2" or so and be 20-30% stiffer.

I plan on adding stiffer f+r swaybars this summer.

Full coilovers are not an option for me with this car, since I just dropped a ton of money on a gravel coilover suspension for my Subie rally car. My wife will kill me. Plus a coilover is way overkill for a daily driven car IMO.
 

PB_NB

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2007
Location
Vancouver, B.C.
TDI
1999 New Beetle
I have a different set up in each of the fleet. I have a H&R /Bilstein lowering setup in the Vanagon with 18's . I have Koni Reds in the Westy with 17's , I have Slightly better than stock in the Beetle with 18's . I have a 3+ inch drop with a crazy German setup and some Neuspeed as well in the GTI with 15's . Oh and the Passat has 18's but is otherwise stock.

You may have noticed that I spend alot of money on wheels.

I just changed out my Beetle suspension with a slightly used setup out of a Turbo "S" as well as a RSB. It is nice and comfortable but corners great.

I am pretty happy now. I the last 2 months I have turned the car around. I was pretty dissappointed with it's all around performance but that's changed. It is a new car now.
 

DieselDrink

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 20, 2006
Location
Etobicoke, ON, Canada
TDI
2001 Golf TDI 1.9L
I have an 2001 Golf. I'm about to dive into KYB ASX adjustable shocks with H&R OE Sport springs (not H&R Sport springs).

The H&R OE Sport lowers only 0.25-0.75 apparently and will be similar to stock oem spring, slightly stiffer, but maybe like a GLI or 20th anniv. spring I'm told. Would lowering this small amount effect center of gravity where handling would be reduced? Effect geometry that will effect camber?

I'm happy with a close to stock spring (but new ones) and good shocks to control them.

Any thoughts anybody on what I'm thinking to do above? Thumbs up? Down?
 
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PB_NB

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2007
Location
Vancouver, B.C.
TDI
1999 New Beetle
DieselDrink said:
Any thoughts anybody on what I'm thinking to do above? Thumbs up? Down?
Sounds like a nice setup. Those KYB's are really cool with the adjuster dial on the side of the shock. No need to take the shocks out to adjust like the Koni Reds for instance.

Another nice addition to this would be a rear sway bar. Tightens up the car without sacrificing comfort.
 

02DslPwr

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 20, 2004
Location
Leander Texas
TDI
2002 Jetta Wagon, TDI
Rally-Fast said:
So are there aftermarket springs that are the same length as stock (do not lower the car)?

I too want to dial out some of the softness in my daily driver, and am tired of scraping the skidplate on small bumps. An ideal spring (to me) would raise the front 1/2" or so and be 20-30% stiffer.

I plan on adding stiffer f+r swaybars this summer.

Full coilovers are not an option for me with this car, since I just dropped a ton of money on a gravel coilover suspension for my Subie rally car. My wife will kill me. Plus a coilover is way overkill for a daily driven car IMO.
I just installed Koni FSDs, Shine Springs, Shine rear bar, Audi TT CA and subframe bushings, etc. As far as comfort goes, my 60+ year-old parents have borrowed my Wagon to move some stuff and they both say the car rides wonderfully. The Shine springs and new hardware/bushings raised the front of the car at least a couple inches. I can fly through dips with no worries.

Robert
 

DieselDrink

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 20, 2006
Location
Etobicoke, ON, Canada
TDI
2001 Golf TDI 1.9L
PB_NB said:
Sounds like a nice setup. Those KYB's are really cool with the adjuster dial on the side of the shock. No need to take the shocks out to adjust like the Koni Reds for instance.

Another nice addition to this would be a rear sway bar. Tightens up the car without sacrificing comfort.
Yeah, I agree. I'll still have the option to add a rear bar later on. But playing with those shocks to start out should be fun.

I was just concerned about choosing the right spring. I hear so many different opinions on so many different setups, its mind boggling.
 

PB_NB

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2007
Location
Vancouver, B.C.
TDI
1999 New Beetle
DieselDrink said:
I was just concerned about choosing the right spring. I hear so many different opinions on so many different setups, its mind boggling.
I think any spring that you get from H&R should be well represented. If they tell you that the ride is comparable to OE sport/HD than they should be close. Keep in mind that if you change out the upper strut mounts with beefed up ones, you will probably gain a bit of height in the front. or at least counter act a .25 drop.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Location
South of Boston
TDI
'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
Rally-Fast said:
So are there aftermarket springs that are the same length as stock (do not lower the car)?

I too want to dial out some of the softness in my daily driver, and am tired of scraping the skidplate on small bumps. An ideal spring (to me) would raise the front 1/2" or so and be 20-30% stiffer.

I plan on adding stiffer f+r swaybars this summer.

Full coilovers are not an option for me with this car, since I just dropped a ton of money on a gravel coilover suspension for my Subie rally car. My wife will kill me. Plus a coilover is way overkill for a daily driven car IMO.
Shine Real Street Springs are almost exactly what you're looking for. They don't change front ride height significantly (they'll be slightly higher or lower depending on the vehicle) and the rear will be slightly lower. Spring rates are 225F/180R. If you want the front a bit taller go with the VR6 springs which are 250F. They raised my golf about 1/2"

You should use Koni Yellows or Bilstein HDs with these springs as they'll have the damping to control the stiffer springs. The Shine rear bar will complete the package.

To the OP: IMHO Koni Reds with stock springs are your best bet. It'll help you get through the remains of T-REX without upsetting your wife. And handling will be much better.
 

02DslPwr

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 20, 2004
Location
Leander Texas
TDI
2002 Jetta Wagon, TDI
To the OP:

Remember, lowering the car forces the front suspension into poor geometry. The nice thing about the Shine springs is that they keep the front end geometry at optimum. Lowering the car too much throws the geometry out of wack.

Read the "What is Handling" thread on vwvortex

Robert
Austin TX
Koni FSD
Shine springs and rear bar
Audi TT CA and subframe bush
VNT-17b
PP357
AMSOIL ATF
KERMA line pressure mod
RC?, aligator?, RC?, aligator?, the debate continues
 

DieselDrink

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 20, 2006
Location
Etobicoke, ON, Canada
TDI
2001 Golf TDI 1.9L
02DslPwr said:
Lowering the car too much throws the geometry out of wack.
What about lowering 1" or less? Will that throw the geo out to a negative effect? I'm referring to H&R OE Sport spring.... or stay on oem stock spring?
 

02DslPwr

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 20, 2004
Location
Leander Texas
TDI
2002 Jetta Wagon, TDI
DieselDrink said:
What about lowering 1" or less? Will that throw the geo out to a negative effect? I'm referring to H&R OE Sport spring.... or stay on oem stock spring?
I all honesty, I don't know. But, I would assume any height VW sold your car at is OK. IOW any OE height spring should be fine. I think this refers more to people who SLAM their Jetta. At that point, the suspension is already to the point, geometry wise, of acting like the wheels are compressed. /O\ Camber would be like this, the O is the body of the car. From there they can only go into more negative camber. Whereas |O|, with the Shine springs, giving the wheels room to travel up and down, allowing the tire to maitaning the best angle on the road.

From what I've heard, there isnt much to align on these cars. A few points are adjustible, but you cant correct seriously off camber. At least not without a camber kit of some kind.

The TT spindles are supposed to fix this issue, but I dont have any first hand experience.

Robert
 
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IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Location
South of Boston
TDI
'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
Lowering even 1" makes a significant difference. The car will feel good if you drive gently, but when it rolls in hard driving you will quickly transition to positive camber in the front and the car will lose grip and push. The only way to avoid this with a lowered car is to get TT or H2Sport spindles to correct the geometry.

Don't lower it. Or if you do put in really stiff springs so it won't roll.
 

02DslPwr

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 20, 2004
Location
Leander Texas
TDI
2002 Jetta Wagon, TDI
Yup, what IBW said. IBW guided me to the products I purchased and I couldn't be happier with how the car rides. I'd take his advice as gospel.

Robert
 

alex97jazzblue

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 18, 2002
Location
Balltimore, MD
TDI
ALH, BRM
Rally-Fast said:
so whats the best place to buy Shine Springs?
TDIparts.com they are also Koni dealers.

To the OP, go for the Koni FSD's, they seem to be the smartest shock kit out there. they cost a little more, but I have never witnessed buyers remorse over the FSD's
 

MarkIV

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2002
Location
Northern New Mexico
TDI
2001 Golf GLS Silver/Black, 2006 New Beetle Pkg#2 DSG Red/Black
My preference is for Bilstein HD's and VR6 springs for the '01 Golf. Gotta have the ground clearance this provides. Ride is slightly stiffer, but handling is greatly improved.
 

alienbogey

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 25, 2004
Location
Gig Harbor, WA
TDI
NB
The OP sounds to me like he's shopping for the Shine Real Street Suspension - the components are set up to complement each other and give improved but still streeable handling and ride - no need to mix and match various dampers, sway bars, etc. I've been very, very pleased with mine.

Its also possible with patience and a little luck to put together the Shine package for less than list. I got my Shine RSB used off VWVortex, the Bilstein HD's at an internet sale price, and then the coils directly from Shine and saved $$.
 

slojoe

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2005
Location
me
TDI
02 Golf
Hey Mark, long time no hear... looks like you added a NB to the stable...I traded my NB out for a Golf.


To the OP: Like MarkIV, I added VR6 springs to my A4, the Jetta/Golf/NB are the same chassis. I also went with the VR6 struts, I got an entire VR6 suspension from a low-mileage pull on the Vortex for less than the price of a single Billstein strut or Eibach spring etc.

I also lifted the car 2" with the MetalNerd kit. I find it super plush and well-handling.

Keep in mind that some Billstein front struts aren't compatible w/the MN lift kit, including HD's. If you do much winter driving around Denver you might want to lift your car at some point, or at least add a skid plate.
 
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