A4 jetta wagon gas>TDI swap project

lagomorph

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2004
Location
tacoma, wa
TDI
2010 golf
Hey all!
I got my motor/trans combo from Peter (vw4motion) and I'm just waiting on a few extra parts that were omitted in the box to start my swap! He said they should be here soon, so I'll give you the run-down of the beginning of the project.
I wanted a TDI wagon, 5 speed, leather, sunroof, and a 02.
Good luck.:D

I bought a 2001 2.0 model (gasser) for $7k , including delivery to Seattle from NY, and a complete TDI conversion from Peter for $3600, including the delivery/customs/etc...
The wagon's high mileage, had 162k on it when I got it. Well taken care of, though-I've driven it for the past 8 months, and now it has 178k. I was looking at TDI's that were just a little lower mileage for $14-15K, so I've saved myself @ 3k just off the top. I've already done some mods to the car, (coilovers, wheels, recaro interior, euro headlights) and it's pretty much how I want it, with the exception of the engine compartment.

Here's the victim......


And the new monkey heart that will power the 'beast from the east'



And the nest of wiring to trace and label, which is now about 3/4 done.



I'll be posting more pics when I start the tear-down later this month. This will be the first project I try to fully document and update.
 

G60ING

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 5, 2001
Location
Alexandria, VA
TDI
No TDIs Currently, I have an R36 Corrado. I've had an ALH Corrado swap, AHU Corrado swap and 2003 TDI Jetta
is that a 90hp AHL?

That should be a gravy swap...or at least in comparison to a MK2 or Mk1. Please keep the pics and updates coming
 

lagomorph

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2004
Location
tacoma, wa
TDI
2010 golf
yes, it's a lowly 90hp.
I wanted a 130hp/6 spd combo, but I did not want to have to risk ordering maintenance parts from Europe, and the $ just was not there at the time.

The plus is that this motor/trans has just under 15k on it. (9,600 miles):eek:

It's not gonna be gravy, have you looked at a mk4 harness??
The wiring will more than likely be tougher than the Mk1 was....
 

G60ING

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 5, 2001
Location
Alexandria, VA
TDI
No TDIs Currently, I have an R36 Corrado. I've had an ALH Corrado swap, AHU Corrado swap and 2003 TDI Jetta
lagomorph said:
It's not gonna be gravy, have you looked at a mk4 harness??
The wiring will more than likely be tougher than the Mk1 was....
Oh yeah I'm framilar with a MK4 harness. I pulled my donar car's out in one piece. The nice thing is that every wire has a home and its just a puzzel to find where the plugs go. For the most part its fairly easy to layout on the garage floor and then its just a matter of untangling the harness (toughest part of your swap in my opinion) Was the donar car a wagon? If not that might be a tough part as rear wires for the lights may need stretching.


I think you'll survive. You've got the parts and now you just need to use instructions (Bentley Manual) and reassemble. Try taking 3 manuals and making one complete car;)
 

lagomorph

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Joined
Apr 1, 2004
Location
tacoma, wa
TDI
2010 golf
how true that is...about the wiring.

The only bad part is that when they removed the donor wiring, instead of simply unplugging the rear harness connector, they cut the wires in front of it to save time.
That does not save me time...;)

I don't think the donor was a wagon.
It was a base model from what I can tell, so I'll have to remove the wiring for the windows/sunroof/heated seats/etc...from the main harness.
The only plus, is that I'm going to wire in a 3 psi fuel pump in the back. That wiring is already there, from the current pump.:D
 

michael.

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2001
Location
Tacoma, WA
TDI
Golf, 2K, silver
Lemme at it. I wanna see this beast in person.
Very willing to give a hand (though not an experienced hand:p ).

I'd enjoy watching the progress both in person and updates in this post.

Let me know.
michael.
p.s. the bike is working well... a few tough shifts - but hey, whatever.
 

thatvwguy

Veteran Member
Joined
May 1, 2006
Location
Seguin, Texas
TDI
2004 Jetta TDI & 2006 New Beetle TDI
Was wondering if you could keep track of your actual hour spent. I am contemplating a similar swap and want to know what I am getting into.
 

Fortuna Wolf

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 28, 2006
Location
Wilmington, NC
TDI
2002 Jetta TDI Auto Sedan
This is very cool. I too want to be kept abrest of this swap. I think next summer I'd like to get an 03 gas jetta wagon and swap a ALH and 6 speed manual or DSG into it.
 

RoundHouse

Veteran Member
Joined
May 23, 2001
Location
Ga USA
You have to swap the entire car harness?

I thought you just swapped the engine harness.

Is there a thread with the exact steps regarding the wiring for swapping a Pre 99 Tdi (without the immoblizer)into a gasser?

I transplanted a 91 Mustang gasser EFI into an old vehicle.
And the wiring was pretty streight forward.
Just removed everything from the donor car and put it into the recipient vehicle and hook it to the ignition switch and battery. Left off the EGR and vapor recovery and other junk that wasnt required for it to run.
 
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lagomorph

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2004
Location
tacoma, wa
TDI
2010 golf
The mk2/mk3/b4 cars have a separate engine harness.
The mk4 cars have a completely integrated harness.
power windows, heated seats, engine, sunroof, etc...are all integrated.
I'll have to extract the options that aren't in the new harness, and re-tape them when I remove the gasser wiring.

Stay tuned-project starts tomorrow night!
 

Jetter_Sprinta

Veteran Member - TDIClub Contributor
Joined
Nov 7, 2002
Location
Boston, Massachusetts
TDI
2 Peeps sharing 1 UseYerName//an array of cars
lagomorph said:
Here's the victim......
Victim? I'd call it the lucky car that will be given a new lease on life!



lagomorph said:
.....The mk4 cars have a completely integrated harness.....
All the better for coolant migration ;)


Looks like an interesting project! I'm assuming you've looked into potential RMV and vehicular inspection issues on being able to register it as a Diesel when you are finished?
 

lagomorph

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2004
Location
tacoma, wa
TDI
2010 golf
I called the dept. of ecology (WA overseer of the emissons testing program) before I set the wheels in motion for the swap.
They said as long as it passes the emissions for the diesel engine, since it's a car that was sold here ( 1.9 TDI jetta) all that I have to do is tell the emissions tester it's a diesel, and they will test it as such. They also make a notation for future testing.

EDIT-Thanks to two friends, the motor/trans is on the ground, and the dash is out.
Elapsed time, Two Hours.


 
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G60ING

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 5, 2001
Location
Alexandria, VA
TDI
No TDIs Currently, I have an R36 Corrado. I've had an ALH Corrado swap, AHU Corrado swap and 2003 TDI Jetta
FYI I had my title converted to diesel when I registered the DZSL SLC for the first time. It was a very simple proceedure and it was just a matter of telling the person at DMV when they filled out the form that the fuel type had changed from G to D But that was here is NC where they are probably not as strict
 

lagomorph

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Joined
Apr 1, 2004
Location
tacoma, wa
TDI
2010 golf
well, the first and last two hours are usually the easiest, or most inebriated. :D

It's not gonna be painless by any means.

four more hours tonight......removed the dash support, got the radiator-a/c condenser-core support cleaned up, and most of the wiring and ECU extracted from the front of the car.
Now is the task (which I started on tonight) of extracting the crossover wiring, from the plug back to the pins in the fuse panel, or main tie-in junction.
Then, those harnesses will get re-taped and run individually to each component, but along a similar path to OEM.
stuff like the heated washer nozzle wiring and tubing, which is different between the two harnesses, electric windows, heated seats, etc. I've converted a car to heated seats before, so I'm at least familiar with that harness.

some of the things I'm noticing are the minor differences in A/C lines, heating hoses, etc. Fortunately, I can remove the a/c lines and have them re-made locally to fit, since the TDI ones are damaged. The ends are still good, which is all I need for custom ones. Most of the hoses I have are on the new motor.
The radiator looks to be the same, which is a good thing.

More pain comes (as if you don't think it's painful yet) is going to be the rear compartment harness integration. The salvage guys cut the wiring to the back near the dead pedal. (including the hose for the rear wiper...which has to be extracted all the way to the bottle) There's about 25-30 wires there that all have to be cut/spliced/soldered/heat shrunk/taped back together. Some of the wires are looking to be different, but I won't know until I get to that point. The power window/sunroof/heated seat wiring should be straight forward, it's just tracing and extracting the wires from the 2.0 harness. Tedious.
I didn't take anymore pics tonight, but I'll snap some tomorrow once I get the harness out of the car. still have things like the accelerator pedal, etc. to swap as well.
I haven't even gotten to the fuel tank yet....
When I say it's integrated, I mean it. The wiring for the brake sensors, hood washers license plate lights, fuel injectors, you name it, it's one harness.

total time so far-10 hours. The guy who quoted 20 hours in that other thread for the complete job should be half-done...:eek:my guess is it'll be in the 40-60 hour range. that means it'll end up around 80.:) still, I'm not doing too badly for a hobbyist.

hoping to be able to degrease the compartment this weekend.
REALLY hoping.

BTW: beer of the night, Pike place 'kilt lifter'.
good times

I did have one more pic...
the old engine/trans on the floor.
 
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Fortuna Wolf

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 28, 2006
Location
Wilmington, NC
TDI
2002 Jetta TDI Auto Sedan
Jesus, why does wiring have to be so freaking complex?
I know they had the tech back then to do a packet based routing. Guess it would cost more though.

Good luck. I've been tempted to get an A4 wagon with a blown gasser engine in it and convert it to a TDI, but I lack the money and guts.
 
Joined
Apr 27, 2003
Location
Stafford Virginia 22556
TDI
96 glx variant tdi
My vr6 glx/tdi wagon conversion was the same. A simple phone call to the Virginia DMV trooper inspector bubba who called the local DMV and that was all it took. Change the g to a d and life goes on.
 

lagomorph

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2004
Location
tacoma, wa
TDI
2010 golf
today's update.....
removed the rear wheelliner to start taking out the tank. I hope that the tank I got is a wagon tank...also took out the seats, trim, and the rest of the wiring. ( the real work)

I've got the complete harness, minus the rear section for the taillights, etc..and drivers' side power windows, etc.. hanging out the drivers door now. The TDI harness is hanging out the passenger door.
It looks like the car threw up.

Apparently the TDI harness came from a manual window, 2dr car.
I have a power window 4 dr wagon.
Even the wires for the seatbelt retractor locks are not present in the new harness.
And the colors of wires are not the same. Same plug, different color wiring.
It's gonna be a long couple of weeks.
I'll post more pics tomorrow.
The interior wiring may well boost this project past my intended deadline.

almost forgot, time tonight, 5 hours.
total of 15 hours now.
 
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lagomorph

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2004
Location
tacoma, wa
TDI
2010 golf
thanks for the homebrew.

I decided to spend the evening cleaning up, and ended up making good headway.
first off, here's where I was left last night.


and inside...


I figured the best plan of attack was to get as much of the new harness out of the way to avoid confusion, trying to chase wires for the comfort systems.
Better clean the engine compartment first, so the wires can go in.
180k of junk...this is after I shop-vac'd the stuff out.



and after that, I threaded the engine compartment harness in, and ran it do the various locations.



I'll start to make more headway tomorrow night, the engine will get hung in place, and I'll probably start working on getting the rear harness section figured out, so I can cut the rest of the wires to the back, and get the old harness out of the car. Then I can lay it out on a blanket and trace wires for the interior easier. If I can get the various systems extracted successfully for all the climate systems, I'm golden. Then it's just a matter of re-routing the wires and a re-tape of all circuits, a gang-load of soldering and heat shrink, and finish re-assembly. Still have the fuel tank and lots of other little odds and ends to swap and install. I <possibly> can meet my goal of 40-60 hours, still.
If you do this swap, try and get a harness that matches your options as much as possible. It would have saved me a lot of time I'm about to spend.

Total time tonight, 4 hours.
total so far, 19 hours.

( I've got drill this weekend, but next weekend I have off...that's why there's only a few hours in the evenings..)

And the beer of choice today....the favorite, Rogue brewery "Dead Guy Ale"
and of course..Fortuna's Homebrew....:D
 

Fortuna Wolf

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Joined
Apr 28, 2006
Location
Wilmington, NC
TDI
2002 Jetta TDI Auto Sedan
If I were near I'd drive up to help, since I really want to know what's involved in this sort of job. oh well, washington's a bit far away!

that exhaust pipe, what sort of modification will be needed to hook the turbo up to it?

It looks like a great opportunity to mod the heck out of stuff too. At least, move the battery to the trunk to free up some space in the engine for other toys. It looks like thou could easily put in an ESP system too.

When thou puttest the AC back together, consider filling it up with a hydrocarbon refrigerant. It works a bit better and moisture doesn't cause problems so you won't need to replace the receiver/drier.
 

lagomorph

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2004
Location
tacoma, wa
TDI
2010 golf
YARGH!
made some progress tonight, and ran into a road block.

I've either got the wrong harness, or the wrong ECU.
I got the engine/trans installed.


Now here's the weird part. Here's the harness that has the correct wiring.
It also has the relay 100, the wiring for the coolant pre-heaters, etc..


And here's the harness plug that fits the ECU. It does not have the auxilary wiring for the coolant heaters, the relay 100, but does have the wiring for the rest of the stuff. The plug for the intercooler is there on both harnesses. Oddly enough, the plug is the same plug as the 2.0 harness.


and the ECU...It's obviously a mk4 diesel ECU...but from what? the wiring that fits doesn't run a TDI..



anyone got any ideas??? My list of things to buy is growing quickly....found some damaged hoses and wires today when putting the engine/trans in the car. Both harnesses hook into the plenum passage in the raintray with the multi colored plugs ( orange,white, black, blue, yellow)

I'll be working on other things until I get another roadblock...I'll try the fuel tank tomorrow night..I might be really up the creek with no propulsion device if I don't get this worked out soon...

I haven't looked inside the harness to see if someone cut the wires for the relay and the pre-heaters.

Almost forgot...time tonight, 3.5 hours..total, 22.5 hours, including some clean-up.

I'll look into the hydrocarbon stuff. I got the r134 discharged for free, and a coupon for a 65$ recharge when the car's back together. I did get a TT short shifter, and an optima battery. That's about all the mods for now, until I sell some extra parts...esp. since I have to have hoses made, and buy a few more things to get the 'complete conversion'.

Brew of the night, Twilight seasonal ale from Deschutes Brewery.
 
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lagomorph

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2004
Location
tacoma, wa
TDI
2010 golf
More progress tonight, spent time on wiring.......like you didn't see that coming.

I've got about 4 more wires to check, and then I can separate the old harness from the car! I was able to extract most of the auxilary stuff tonight, sunroof wiring, power windows, airbag harnesses, etc...I've still got cutting/soldering/heat shrinking/taping to go....looks like I have a MK4 ECU and a MK4 harness, but some of the wires are missing. SO, I'll be cutting open both of the engine management harnesses to transfer some wires from the one to the other..total time tonight, 2.5 hours
total, 25 hours....so far, surprisingly so good.

And the brew of the night is again, Dead guy ale!
 

SVTWEB

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Joined
Aug 29, 2001
Location
Beyond Comprehension
TDI
2010 Jetta TDI Cup-Edition EVO 4-Motion
I commend you on the undertaking, I wish that I was closer to give a helping hand. The problems you are running into are the exact reason that I did over 600 Hours of Research before I ever loosened a bolt. That is the main reason that the conversion of my car from a 2.8L Gasser, Automatic to a 2.5L V6-TDI, Manual took 9 days total. Good luck to you.
 

lagomorph

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2004
Location
tacoma, wa
TDI
2010 golf
Well, I think I'm over the halfway point as of now.
The two harnesses are separated. :D


If you're going to attempt this swap-let me reiterate.
Make sure you specify (from Peter, or anyone else you're buying from) that you need a harness that matches your options as close as possible.

I spent 2.5 hours tonight removing the last of the crossover wires that were still attached to the old fuse panel, and moving them over to the new fuse panel.
There is an easy way, and a hard way to get the factory ends out of the fuse box.
The hard way is to not remove the red clips that lock the wires in place. The one that is tricky is the large block of red that resides in the fuse panel. The whole block slides in the panel to release the clips. You still have to get in and bend down the tang to release the clip, but trust me-they don't come out unless the red part is moved. A lot of the MK4 plugs have a similar lock mechanism. You have to slide the innards to get the clips to slide out. Just a FYI...

So, where does that leave me as of tonight? Fuel tank is ready to drop-just gotta drop the beam to land it on the ground. downtube is in, and ready to bolt up to the exhaust-(that was a gimme)-east coast car, and the downtube slid away from the rear section. :eek:

All the ABS wires and the comfort control wiring is out of the old harness, I think there may be one plug hiding in the harness somewhere, but I'll probably find it this weekend.

I talked with Jeff @ rocketchip, and I got some bad news about the ECU..
Basically, it's a Skoda ECU. It does not map for the VNT, but instead it maps for the wastegated turbos. (aka 1z/AHU)
So, I'll be sending an e-mail to Peter, to see about getting a correct ECU.
I know that the pile of stuff that I got sent was all mismatched as far as wiring and harnesses go. That could end up being the downfall of this project, waiting for a harness, and ripping out all the wiring again, and laying in new harnesses. If I knew of a Mk4 TDI getting parted out in the area, I'd just go buy a harness to take care of the problem. It's entirely possible that I have a Skoda harness as well..seeing as how I really have no idea what it came from. At least the plugs are the same, except for the engine management.
Live and Learn....:cool:

SVT-I know you did crazy amounts of research before your project, and had many experienced hands helping you to accomplish certain tasks.
I did as much research as I could, and ended up with what I was sent anyway. Now I have to backtrack and repair stuff that should not have been cut,( like the whole rear section of the harness) or sent as a wrong harness altogether.
I'm pretty much flying solo on this one. I do have some friends to assist with minor assembly/disassembly tasks, but when it comes to the real tough stuff, I'm Lone Wolf....

and the total time update-27.5 hours.
 

caddytd

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 1, 2005
TDI
81 CaddyTD Baby Blue
Lago...
If you're going to attempt this swap-let me reiterate.
Make sure you specify (from Peter, or anyone else you're buying from) that you need a harness that matches your options as close as possible.
Very true, very true. I found the same thing out with my Audi V6 swap. The important thing is to get a list of exactly what the donor car had or didn't have. Like your donor, mine had manual windows in the back, no power sunroof (only half the wiring was there) and lacked other items that the "decked out" US versions came with.

Do you have the ELSA_Win DVD's? I found the diagrams to be indispensable when I was making all my accessories work. If you don't have the diagrams, I can look stuff up / print it / save it for you if you like. Let me know.

Are your harnesses "modular" in that car? In the Audi, it looks as though the sound system, power windows, seats, etc are separate taped harnesses that are all laid on top of each other on a jig then taped up together as one. I spent about a week (I'm slower than you) putting both harnesses side by side on the floor and comparing / extracting what I wanted.

I ended up pulling every bit of carpet / interior panel out of my car to get at the complete harness... perhaps you wont' have to do the same...

Sorry to hear about the cut in the harness... that's a bummer. I had to do some splicing as well and became real familiar with the soldering gun. Hopefully it'll all pay off.

It looks like you're making progress... Let me know how I can help. Just keep repeating to yourself that VW made that car from the factory and that "it was assembled by humans so it can be reassembled by humans"....Hhehe.
 

lagomorph

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2004
Location
tacoma, wa
TDI
2010 golf
Caddy-
The jettas are all one "made to order" harness. That's the big suxorz.

I don't have Elsa, I may be getting Euro etka tonight. I've been doing all my swaps from the Bentley. Old School.:D

I snaked out the harness from under the carpet for the heated seats/airbag/etc. The donor car came with ABS, but most of the wires from the airbag control module are not present. I have to transfer those as well.

The biggest pain is the re-integration.
If I would have had the correct harness(assuming responsibility for lack of forethought) this swap would be done. Seriously.
I've still got about 10 hours (est.) of wiring to go, and that doesn't cover the dilemma of the ECU...perhaps you can offer some insight on the plug situation with the ELSA diagrams?
I called a friend ( dunhamjr) who has a spare ECU, and the pin configuration is similar to what I already have. Now I'm real confused...
We'll wait and see how Sat/Sun play out, since it will be the first 2 days off I've had in three weeks.
I'll actually have 8 hours to work on the car...in a row!:eek:
 
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