A3 TDI Buyback Fail

[rfortson]

No, I don't believe this is correct. I'm not "overlooking" this point; I disagree with it. If you show up with your car, and it has 100k more miles than you said it had, do you still think VW's bound to the number on the offer letter? What about if it's 10k more?

If the mileage is off, they wouldn't give you the pre-printed check. They would tear it up, and mail you a new, adjusted check. But that's not happening, is it? The OP showed up and was handed a pre-printed check for a smaller amount. Does the Great Carnak work for VW? How did they know the mileage had changed from the final, agreed-to offer?

Answer - they didn't know. They don't know. It's a glitch in the system.

And yes, the final offer is the binding amount until given a new offer based on any final adjustments for mileage.

 

[Claudio]

I believe it would be a lot more clear if OP would provide data for his car: model, options, mileage at turn it, etc.

we can run some numbers and see where the discrepancy is...

 

[bizzle]

A check will be voided only if the amount is more than you are supposed to be getting, not less. The offer in the papers that needed to be notarized was based on the mileage charts that would apply in August of 2017. He turned it in earlier so he doesn't get the mileage credits of all those extra months.

He got an offer letter based on turning it in next year. He signed it, notarized it, then uploaded the document. Then he put in his current mileage and the check was written for the amount of mileage at this date, which is less money than he would have received if he'd waited another year (without putting any additional miles on it, since you get "credit" for 1,024 miles per month).

We don't need to run any more numbers. The OP already received an answer from a claims specialist and multiple people on the board have confirmed the formula used.

 

[DanB36]

How did they know the mileage had changed from the final, agreed-to offer?

Because he input a new mileage amount when he scheduled the appointment, would be the obvious answer.

We have three cases, I think (there's at least you and Stewie, but I think I've seen a third), of people who have turned in their cars and gotten a smaller payment than expected. In each of those cases, a mileage adjustment would exactly explain the difference in payment. It would be easy enough to confirm if that's what's happened, but in none of those cases have the parties involved shared the details to allow anyone else to determine what the correct amount would have been. You're standing on "the offer's binding, so the details don't matter;" I think you're mistaken.

 

[autdi]

Because he input a new mileage amount when he scheduled the appointment, would be the obvious answer.

We have three cases, I think (there's at least you and Stewie, but I think I've seen a third), of people who have turned in their cars and gotten a smaller payment than expected. In each of those cases, a mileage adjustment would exactly explain the difference in payment. It would be easy enough to confirm if that's what's happened, but in none of those cases have the parties involved shared the details to allow anyone else to determine what the correct amount would have been. You're standing on "the offer's binding, so the details don't matter;" I think you're mistaken.

The other one was off by $450 on a 2011 JSW, sure enough, $450 is the mileage bin closest to where he was. Close enough to the 5k bin edge, that moving a month this way or that would kick it between bins.

Best guess, VW would be well served to put the expected date of turn in, and the miles on that date in the offers, and this would go away. Well it wouldn't go away, but at least those of us trying to field the questions logically can point exactly how to get at the number of the check from the number on the offer paper.

 

[Stewie]

I believe it would be a lot more clear if OP would provide data for his car: model, options, mileage at turn it, etc.

we can run some numbers and see where the discrepancy is...

2013 A3 Hatchback 4D TDI Premium Plus

They refer to it as the "Titanium Edition"

Nav, sunroof, power driver seat, heated seats, pass through rear seats

Mileage as it sat in dealers lot night of Nov 29 26,174

I cannot remember the exact mileage back on November 12th when I uploaded my executed offer letter, but probably closer to 26,000

Assume that offer letter (not the check) was based on 25,000 and April 2017. (I am assuming it simply picked up the last data input back in August 2016 when the estimator tool was in the portal)

 

[DanB36]

If you also had the Bose stereo, https://agrahamg.github.io/VWBuybackCalculator/ agrees almost perfectly with the amount of your check.

 

[autdi]

2013 A3 Hatchback 4D TDI Premium Plus

They refer to it as the "Titanium Edition"

Nav, sunroof, power driver seat, heated seats, pass through rear seats

Mileage as it sat in dealers lot night of Nov 29 26,174

I cannot remember the exact mileage back on November 12th when I uploaded my executed offer letter, but probably closer to 26,000

Assume that offer letter (not the check) was based on 25,000 and April 2017. (I am assuming it simply picked up the last data input back in August 2016 when the estimator tool was in the portal)

Base value would be 29,357 + 780 sunroof + 840 nav + 1800 titanium sport = 32777

Mileage adjustment 25000 (stated) - 19798 (19*1042) = 5202 results in $3780 adder

Offer letter should have been $36,557

Actual value at Nov turn in only varies on miles: 26174 on the lot - 14588 (14*1042) = 11586 falls in the +$3120 bin.

You should have seen a $660 lower number on the check compared to the offer.

 

[bizzle]

As Dan stated, if he has the Bose sound system his initial buyback offer for 25K miles turned-in August 2017 would be $37,727. Turning it in November with 26K miles brings it down to $36,377.

Incidentally, if he had waited until today he would have received an extra $1300 ($37,037).

People need to keep in mind that while VW is calculating 1,024 miles per month the mileage adjustments are according to bins so you have to wait a few months before you qualify for the next mileage bin.

 

[autdi]

As Dan stated, if he has the Bose sound system his initial buyback offer for 25K miles turned-in August 2017 would be $37,727. Turning it in November with 26K miles brings it down to $36,377.

Incidentally, if he had waited until today he would have received an extra $1300 ($37,037).

People need to keep in mind that while VW is calculating 1,024 miles per month the mileage adjustments are according to bins so you have to wait a few months before you qualify for the next mileage bin.

None of the range bins are worth $1300, the largest one is $810 for an A3 2015, most are in the 300-500 range.

 

[ericy]

If you also had the Bose stereo, https://agrahamg.github.io/VWBuybackCalculator/ agrees almost perfectly with the amount of your check.

I used the tables from the court, and ended up within 3$ if you add in Bose. 36377$.

If you look in the tables, the values of the base cars for an A3 always end in a 7. The value of of the options are a multiple of 10$, and the milage adjustments are also all multiples of 10$. So my guess is that the initial numbers posted were just a little off. My guess is that the real check is $36376.73.

 

[ericy]

None of the range bins are worth $1300, the largest one is $810 for an A3 2015, most are in the 300-500 range.

If this car was in the 0-5000 mile bin, then the mileage adjustment would be $4470. If the car was in the 10000-15000 mile bin, then the adjustment is $3120. The difference is exactly $1350. It isn't a jump of one bin - this is a jump of two bins, and the dollar amount exactly matches what the OP mentioned.

http://www.cand.uscourts.gov/filelibrary/1793/FTC_Attachment_2C.pdf

 

[Stewie]

I meet the Ambassador tomorrow to go through round two. I will let this forum know how it turns out and if the check is yet another number. I don't think it will be, I think what's going to happen is I'll get the same check I was to have taken the night of the 29th.

Hopefully the 17 miles I have driven since then won't trip another mileage bucket.

 

[bizzle]

I had completely forgotten you had not turned your car in yet.

In that case, it's now coming in after the 1st and you should see another $1300 bucks. If the check doesn't have that additional money, ask him the actual date of the monthly rollover because that's the only thing I haven't actually seen stated anywhere (whether monthly approximations are based on the 1st, last, or somewhere in the middle of the month).

(assuming you have the Bose sound system as Dan pointed out)

 

[ericy]

I had completely forgotten you had not turned your car in yet.

In that case, it's now coming in after the 1st and you should see another $1300 bucks. If the check doesn't have that additional money, ask him the actual date of the monthly rollover because that's the only thing I haven't actually seen stated anywhere (whether monthly approximations are based on the 1st, last, or somewhere in the middle of the month).

(assuming you have the Bose sound system as Dan pointed out)

To get 1300$, you would need to move two mileage bins, and I can't see doing that in one day. If anything, I would think you might get half that, but even that's uncertain since we don't know when they start counting the months.

It is also possible that they never re-issued the check at all, and that this is still the same check as before.

 

[bizzle]

They start counting from September, but we don't know if they using a specific date within September. I ran the numbers with a Bose sound system added in. When you do that you get the exact figures his offer letter used *and* the check he received.

Are you considering a Bose sound system when you calculate that he needs two mileage bins for the $1350?

 

[ericy]

They start counting from September, but we don't know if they using a specific date within September. I ran the numbers with a Bose sound system added in. When you do that you get the exact figures his offer letter used *and* the check he received.

Are you considering a Bose sound system when you calculate that he needs two mileage bins for the $1350?

Just look at the mileage adjustment table:

https://www.ftc.gov/sites/default/files/pdf/att._2c_-_passat_and_a3_mileage_table.pdf

For a 2013, going from 10-15K to 0-5K results in a change in the milage adjustment from $3120 to $4470. A difference of exactly $1350. Jumping only one bin is only a $660 change.

 

[bizzle]

OK, so I'm in law and I always joke with my students mainly due to not wanting to care about math for the rest of my life. I wrote the two numbers down in my previous post and then incorrectly posted the difference was $1300. I'm guessing that I was holding that in my head from when I ran the numbers between turning it in now vs. next year. The actual difference between the two numbers I posted was $690 so we've been in agreement this whole time except for my brainfart.

Now that's he in December he pushed himself down one bin and should get an extra $660 (there won't be a new check and the ambassador won't have any idea of how this all works out so he'll probably have to be patient and wait for the difference in the mail).

 

[Stewie]

OK, so I'm in law and I always joke with my students mainly due to not wanting to care about math for the rest of my life. I wrote the two numbers down in my previous post and then incorrectly posted the difference was $1300. I'm guessing that I was holding that in my head from when I ran the numbers between turning it in now vs. next year. The actual difference between the two numbers I posted was $690 so we've been in agreement this whole time except for my brainfart.

Now that's he in December he pushed himself down one bin and should get an extra $660 (there won't be a new check and the ambassador won't have any idea of how this all works out so he'll probably have to be patient and wait for the difference in the mail).

Bizzle, I will name a building after you if I get a follow up check in the mail! I'll count myself lucky if the guy shows up, and the check doesn't bounce due to someone in HQ having put a stop payment on it, thinking the deal went dead.

 

[nicklockard]

So just put your Tdi up on blocks like Ferris Bueller's Day off (but in top gear instead of reverse) overnight on max accelerator to get your miles up and bump to the required bin

 

[Stewie]

Went to the dealership, picked up the check, Ambassador said it was the exact same cheque that I refused the night of the 29th.

Deposited in my bank, last step is to see that it wasn't cancelled. No discussion whatsoever about it being a new month, increased mileage, none of that.

 

[newbeetleman]

I don't remember a turn in date being on the initial set up. I save the original response from the claims portal that showed the mileage range and amount but it was saved on a hard drive that has since started acting up.. Can't grab it anymore

 

[DanB36]

When you first registered your car, you specified a turn-in date for the purpose of figuring the mileage adjustment. If your registered back in July/August (or probably even through September), the system defaulted to 11/1/16, but you could choose a different date if desired.

 

[PacCoastFwy923]

I don't remember a turn in date being on the initial set up.

I recall there being a "when do you think you'll turn your car in" sort of question when the settlement site first went live, but it's been so long that it's fuzzy. I remember trying to set a rational estimation of how long this process might take, and settling in the December, January, February range, knowing that October or November was probably unrealistic.

...but that all could have been an invention of my crazy imagination.

 

[newbeetleman]

When you first registered your car, you specified a turn-in date for the purpose of figuring the mileage adjustment. If your registered back in July/August (or probably even through September), the system defaulted to 11/1/16, but you could choose a different date if desired.

Ah, which is why I don't remember selecting a date.. That would explain everything.

 

[Tenebrae]

When you first registered your car, you specified a turn-in date for the purpose of figuring the mileage adjustment. If your registered back in July/August (or probably even through September), the system defaulted to 11/1/16, but you could choose a different date if desired.

When I registered in October, there was an option to enter your current / estimated mileage and an anticipated turn-in date. I think the earliest visible turn-in date for me was either November 15th or December 15th 2016. I have a bad memory and wish I had just screenshotted the page. I didn't realize we wouldn't be able to see it again or edit it or anything.
I am currently thinking it said December 15th 2016 because my hubby seems to remember me saying something like, "Well, I guess that's the earliest date they will possibly be doing turn-ins." He's been using that as an excuse to tell me not to get worked up over the time frame since after all, I said that was the earliest I could turn in. I've had to point out that many people here have posted that they had much earlier turn-ins than what they originally selected, but y'all are just "people on the Internet". heh
Maybe we need to start holding up "today's newspaper" and a sign that says, "Hi, TDIclub" and take a photo when we do our turn-ins!

-T.