A3 TDI Buyback Fail

[autdi]

The conspiracy theorists were out in droves on this without energizing their brains one iota. People like that scare me.

That's exactly why I gave all the data so they could run the numbers on their own. Telling someone they were incorrect generally is ineffective. Showing them how to run the computation and they get the very same answer, but did it themselves, much harder to keep complaining about the number. Mind you some will anyway, but those, you really can't help them.

 

[Airpizz6]

That's exactly why I gave all the data so they could run the numbers on their own. Telling someone they were incorrect generally is ineffective. Showing them how to run the computation and they get the very same answer, but did it themselves, much harder to keep complaining about the number. Mind you some will anyway, but those, you really can't help them.

Fine, and maybe the explanation will help others calm down, but for the OP who apparently didn't even know that he signed up for a Aug 17 turn in, he needs simple - not differential calculus.

 

[bizzle]

I suspect that very few people will remember the date they put down for their turn-in. I just notarized and uploaded my documents and I don't think the turn-in date is printed on it, but I'm not going to bother checking. I don't remember the specific date I put in months ago and the person who started the thread said his claim on the portal was closed so he couldn't access it anymore. The ambassador apparently didn't have the original turn-in date and neither did anyone he called (or tweeted).

The simple fact of the matter is this isn't an issue of knowing or not knowing calculus so that comment is out of bounds.

I do think Stewie should contact the dealership and twitter rep to explain what happened so the next person won't be left in this situation.

 

[chadbag]

Lengthy response, but the dude signed up to turn his Audi in Aug 17, got a figure from VW, but decided to turn it now. This meant that VW had to then add 9378 to the mileage on his offer sheet at a cost of $1350. Very simple.

Don't know if this makes sense yet.

HOW did he sign up to turn in Aug 17? On the original registration? How did he get an appointment so close if he was already signed up?

If he signed up for Aug 17, and was at 30k in in July or August, they would add in the 12 or 13 months x 1042 miles to get an estimated value value. VW/Audi is NOT assuming that you park the car.

So, that leads us to:

As long as he was not driving more than 1042 miles a month, the buyback value in Aug 17 and Nov 16 should be the same.

Again, Audi/VW is NOT assuming you park it in their calculations. They ask for the mileage on a given day and adjust that into the future at 1042 miles per month to get an estimated offer.

 

[bizzle]

As long as he was not driving more than 1042 miles a month, the buyback value in Aug 17 and Nov 16 should be the same.

No, the Aug 17 buyback value is more than Nov 16 buyback value.

 

[Airpizz6]

My logic might be entirely off, but all I know is that the numbers track as I laid it out above.

 

[rbreding]

So basically we circlejerked around to find out the the check is probably the correct amount for the date it was actually turned in ?

 

[chadbag]

No, the Aug 17 buyback value is more than Nov 16 buyback value.

How so?

Nov 16 and Aug 17 should be exactly the same as long as the monthly mileage driven is 1042 miles or less (but not significantly less and Audi/VW would assume exactly 1042 miles per month in making the offer).

In Jul 16 he puts in Aug 17 date and puts in 30k miles. They give him 1042 miles per month for free, so as long as you don't go over that the offer should not change. As a shortcut you can just go back from Jul 16 to Sep 15 and subtract 10 months (Jul 16 back to Sep 15) x 1042 = 10420. Subtract that from the 30k he hypothetically would have put in. That gives and look at the Sept 15 "mileage" of 19580 which is what you would look up on the Sept 15 chart (called "adjusted mileage" pn the settlement chart). That gives you the base mileage adjustment. [ For those stuck on my shortcut, you get 1042 miles per month you add in, and then take back out so they don't matter ]

That number WILL NOT CHANGE as long as you drive no more than 1042 miles per month (and drive close to it -- if you are significantly under it WOULD be more valuable to wait, but Audi/VW would NOT be making that assumption when creating the offer -- they will be using the 1042 miles per month assumption).

 

[chadbag]

The car becomes more valuable in time if the mileage doesn't increase, as each month you get another 1042(?) miles taken off the odometer reading at turn in. So, letting the car sit for 1 year effectively drops it 2 mileage bins down on the table. On the A3, those bins are pretty steep, as in you more than pay for the flatbed tow to not roll it over the next 5k bound driving it to the turn-in.

It's been a while, so I think you were supposed to indicate mileage at turn in, and the date for the turn in. The date computes the months from 9/18/15, multiplies by 1042, subtracts it from the stated odometer reading, and looks up the miles adjustment.

Now, if you continued to drive the car, one of three things happens, you stay under the monthly miles, and stay relatively close to it, the value remains more or less flat from now until 12/2018. If you are over, you will start losing value, but only at the rate you go through the extra 5k bins. So if you are driving up to about 1300 miles a month, you won't slip more than 1 bin in 24 months. depending on where you start in the bin also matters if you are at a 5000 multiple + 1, you have the most "free" miles over 1042 a month, similarly, being at 5000 multiple -1, you are in the pay for the tow crowd. If you are under per month, it all depends on how much under, and how long you wait. If you are just over a 5k bound, keeping it a bit to fall back under is probably worth it. If you are at 4999, you probably aren't getting under unless you really aren't driving it, then you might as well park it, save the insurance and license fees, and send it back in 2 years anyway.

The problem with this explanation is that Audi/VW will ASSUME 1042 miles per month exactly as they don't know if you are driving fewer miles each month (or more) so the OFFER sheet will have an offer that is valid in ANY month as long as the actual driving being done is around 1042 miles per month or less (and less could actually get you more, not less if it is enough less).

So they generated an offer based on an updated mileage amount he put in when uploading the title/ID etc IIRC (that was when we did it, right? I don't remember. I do know I have updated the mileage at least once, either with docs or offer upload (or both). Do you again put mileage in when scheduling the appointment? I am still waiting for that bit after my own notarized offer was uploaded on 11/18). Presumably the check was written based on that updated mileage when scheduling the appointment (which I assume you put a new mileage in but I don't know that for sure). IF he drove significantly more, like a whole cr@pload more, in between the time he uploaded his docs (title/ID) and scheduling his appointment, the payment should match the offer and not be less, and he said the buyback specialist found nothing wrong with the mileage recorded at the turn-in.

The excuse that he originally put Aug 17 in does not make sense and should not explain it.

 

[Airpizz6]

Do you have a logical explanation then or just a bunch of words?

 

[Claudio]

i believe it makes sense because there was a field back in the days with aprrox mileage at turn in, so if you for example put 100K miles at Dicember 2016, it would be less money than 100K miles at August 2017

 

[rfortson]

Please walk me through this. Just got off the phone with an Audi Customer Rep who said: "Your original contract amount was based on the expectation that you would return the car in August of 2017. However you turned it in early, so therefor the value of the amount dropped".
I asked him to walk me through how the car becomes more valuable with time and mileage, and of course he couldn't.
At this point, I will accept a valid explanation and the lower amount if someone can simply explain the math to me.

I'm thinking this is a glitch in their system. I had the same happen to me. The reason I think it's a computer glitch is the amount I received was the exact amount of my original estimate from the claims website. Once I uploaded my documents and mileage, I then received the official offer which was exactly $390 more (based on a little more car value and a little more restitution). I don't know why it increased, except for the fact that I had stopped driving the car, so I'm assuming less mileage caused an incremental increase.

I took EFT, and when I saw the receipt, I noted the difference to the settlement guy. He said it had happened a couple of other times with him and to call the claims hotline. He said my official offer was the proper amount and that I'd eventually get a second EFT to make up the difference.

Of course, the claims person couldn't really help and I'm expecting (somewhat) a call from someone after she escalated the issue. We'll see.

While I agree with you that Audi/VW US should help us, it's pretty obvious that they are clueless as well. I think flooding the lawyers with this information to get the courts to clear it up is the best path forward. After all, the only people better than car dealer at extracting cash are lawyers.

 

[chadbag]

Do you have a logical explanation then or just a bunch of words?

Yes, I gave the logical explanation. Did you read it?

If anyone can logically show me my continuing to drive the car through Aug 17 will result in more money the please lay it out here, with all your calculations.

Audi/VW doers not make offer estimates based on parking the car, so any explanation that relies on no mileage to increase or decrease mileage bracket is invalid.

The mileage bracket explanation and Aug 17 estimated time do not make sense.

 

[chadbag]

i believe it makes sense because there was a field back in the days with aprrox mileage at turn in, so if you for example put 100K miles at Dicember 2016, it would be less money than 100K miles at August 2017

The OFFER was updated with new mileage they got later and would be more valid. It looks like payments are going out based on the original estimates based on what @rfortson detailed happening to him.

 

[DanB36]

The OFFER was updated with new mileage they got later and would be more valid.

At what point before downloading the offer do you update your mileage? Because I haven't been asked to update my mileage before downloading either of my two offers. I understand you're asked to update your mileage before scheduling your buyback appointment (haven't gotten that far myself), but by that time you've already returned your offer.

 

[chadbag]

At what point before downloading the offer do you update your mileage? Because I haven't been asked to update my mileage before downloading either of my two offers. I understand you're asked to update your mileage before scheduling your buyback appointment (haven't gotten that far myself), but by that time you've already returned your offer.

I was asked once for an updated mileage somewhere in the process. It may have been when uploading the notarized copy? All I know is I had to go back out to the car and get an updated mileage when doing one of the interactions in the last month or 6 weeks.

They also ask when you schedule an appointment, which I did 5 minutes ago.

 

[DanB36]

I was asked once for an updated mileage somewhere in the process. It may have been when uploading the notarized copy?

Interesting, as I haven't been thus far, and have uploaded two notarized offers in the last week or so.

I can't say for sure what the site was doing 2-4 months ago, but I don't think it's changed. What it's doing right now is asking for your mileage now, your expected miles/month, and your expected turn-in date (and it's now much clearer that that date is only used for the purpose of computing mileage adjustments, and not a scheduled turn-in date).

If it was doing the same thing when OP registered, and he entered something close to his current mileage, 0 miles/month, and 8/17 as the expected return date, that would produce the result he's seeing. That seems like a kind of odd set of circumstances though. Another possibility, perhaps more likely, is that OP underestimated his mileage when he first registered on the claims portal.

 

[ericy]

The thought comes to mind that the OP could supply us with the year, trim level, list of options, and exact mileage.

Then one could look in the tables that are on the court website and work out what the buyback should have been.

Or better yet, the OP could do all of this legwork and then report if there is a discrepancy.

 

[rfortson]

I was asked once for an updated mileage somewhere in the process. It may have been when uploading the notarized copy? All I know is I had to go back out to the car and get an updated mileage when doing one of the interactions in the last month or 6 weeks.
They also ask when you schedule an appointment, which I did 5 minutes ago.

Same for me. I entered mileage a few times in the process, including for the offer just before buyback.
My vote is still on glitch in the system. What I'm waiting to hear is this:

 

[Claudio]

At what point before downloading the offer do you update your mileage? Because I haven't been asked to update my mileage before downloading either of my two offers. I understand you're asked to update your mileage before scheduling your buyback appointment (haven't gotten that far myself), but by that time you've already returned your offer.

correct, you are asked to update mileage when you select your appointment, so AFTER you have already accepted the offer

 

[bring]

It seems to me he said it in the .0 post

Not to me

Are you his attorney? Let him respond....

 

[chadbag]

Not to me

Are you his attorney? Let him respond....

My aren't we special. He already had given the info you requested but you want a special answer just for you instead of reading his original post and getting the info there.

No, I am not the guy's attorney and I don't personally know the guy.

 

[bring]

He already had given the info you requested but you want a special answer just for you instead of reading his original post and getting the info there.

No he didn't - it's unclear. Not looking for a special answer.

Nice try....

 

[chadbag]

Interesting, as I haven't been thus far, and have uploaded two notarized offers in the last week or so.

I can't say for sure what the site was doing 2-4 months ago, but I don't think it's changed. What it's doing right now is asking for your mileage now, your expected miles/month, and your expected turn-in date (and it's now much clearer that that date is only used for the purpose of computing mileage adjustments, and not a scheduled turn-in date).

If it was doing the same thing when OP registered, and he entered something close to his current mileage, 0 miles/month, and 8/17 as the expected return date, that would produce the result he's seeing. That seems like a kind of odd set of circumstances though. Another possibility, perhaps more likely, is that OP underestimated his mileage when he first registered on the claims portal.

When I registered my cars (and I re-did one in October though I abandoned that one) it did not ask for expected miles/month. It just offered an expected turn in date (which I could change IIRC) and asked for the current mileage.

Do we know that the .0 OP told them 0 miles/month in his initial registration? Unless we know that for sure, it is just speculation (and given the early nature of his buyback I expect he was an early registrant).

 

[chadbag]

No he didn't - it's unclear. Not looking for a special answer.

Nice try....

Yes, he did. This is the exact wording from the offer and is exactly what you asked for:

Here's the details of the offer:

----

$28,950.00 Vehicle Return Amount
$ 8,776.73 Additional Restitution Amount

$37,726.73 Amount VW Will Pay You

----

Note: I added the ---- line to show what is from the offer and what were his words.

 

[DanB36]

Not to me.

Your question:

what amount is on the offer letter you notarized?

The OP:

Here's the details of the offer:

$28,950.00 Vehicle Return Amount
$ 8,776.73 Additional Restitution Amount

$37,726.73 Amount VW Will Pay You

What part of that (all of which was quoted by @chadbag in the message you're replying to) doesn't answer your question?

 

[DanB36]

Do we know that the .0 OP told them 0 miles/month in his initial registration? Unless we know that for sure, it is just speculation (and given the early nature of his buyback I expect he was an early registrant).

No, and you're right, it's absolutely speculation. But it would explain the discrepancy we're seeing. I know that, right now, the claims portal asks for miles/month, and it defaults to 1042 miles/month, but I don't clearly recall what it was doing back in July.

 

[autdi]

Same for me. I entered mileage a few times in the process, including for the offer just before buyback.
My vote is still on glitch in the system. What I'm waiting to hear is this:

Speculating, but using the expected turn in date rather than the date scheduled would seem to be the most likely glitch. Since you could put in a date all the way out to 12/31/2018 early on, if that date continues to be used through the rest of the process, it would inflate numbers by miscomputing the number of months to give the 1042 credit for. Once getting to the offer stage, it would seem that they would have to generate a couple of offers depending on which of the 3 months you pick the turn in date in, and the miles each is valid for. This would likely create even more confusion, offer 1: month 1, miles x to next 5k, offer 2: month 1, miles from next 5k to next 10k, offer 3: month 2 miles x to next 5k+1042, and so on. Folks can't figure this out on their own, presenting them with 6 offers based on the month you return, and the miles at the time of turn in will not turn out well.

 

[rfortson]

When I registered my cars (and I re-did one in October though I abandoned that one) it did not ask for expected miles/month. It just offered an expected turn in date (which I could change IIRC) and asked for the current mileage.
Do we know that the .0 OP told them 0 miles/month in his initial registration? Unless we know that for sure, it is just speculation (and given the early nature of his buyback I expect he was an early registrant).

Again, same here. I don't remember any "miles/month" estimate, just the current mileage. Maybe I entered a miles/month back when I originally registered?

Either way, to me it doesn't matter. I have an offer letter notarized from VW that they accepted and then they told me to schedule my appointment. They never said when I had to schedule it. To me (and to the buy back rep I dealt with), the offer letter is the official amount. Anything else is wrong and should be corrected. All these gyrations trying to figure out other amounts is a waste in my book. VW and I had a deal and they paid me slightly less, same as this guy.

 

[chadbag]

No, and you're right, it's absolutely speculation. But it would explain the discrepancy we're seeing. I know that, right now, the claims portal asks for miles/month, and it defaults to 1042 miles/month, but I don't clearly recall what it was doing back in July.

Since there are other reports of similar problems with payments, I would hazard a guess that they have a system problem and are writing checks based on the initial estimate and not what was in the offer letter, since that seems to match the circumstances on at least one or more of the cases (it seems to match more but we don't have confirmation of that).

It would seem strange that they would not write the check against the offer letter amount since they don't know or any mileage issues really until you turn in, unless you were able to update them on mileage when you uploaded the notarized offer. I did upload a new mileage this fall IIRC but don't remember exactly at what step (not including the scheduling step, which I did today for one of my cars). I only remember having to go out and get the mileage some time "relatively recently" for the claims portal.