A3 / B4 glow plug relay and fuse location

[slapshotjh]

Ok the local VW dealer says this jumper relay is no longer available. I used part number 3Ao941817. Parts counter guy said its been discontinued since 1998. I read Lug Nuts post about the jumper between line and load. I'll have to look closer at the relay board and see if I can figure out which two ports those are and try to rig something up. Are jumper relays common enough that I might be able to get one at the local Auto Zone or something?

 

[rdkern]

You could make something with a couple of larger spade connectors and some large wire. If you need (and if my car starts this morning) I can provide my best guess as to which slots the connectors should connect. This evening at earliest.

 

[slapshotjh]

That would be great. Lug Nut mentioned that the fog lights have a similar jumper. My car has fog lights, maybe I'll get lucky and find that its the same jumper and still available.

 

[rdkern]

My car started. I must have put it in correctly. Come to think of it, I did put a real fog light relay in and replaced the jumper there. I'll see if I can find that if you don't have one in your panel.

 

[Lug_Nut]

Be careful! The factory delivery had a metal bridge in the fog lamp relay socket. This allowed the power to the fog lamp wiring for easy dealer installation of this option.
The photo at the top of this thread shows my personal car with that bridging metal piece removed and a proper relay installed in the fog lamp socket (allows fog lamps only with low beams, not with high).
Here's the reason for the caution: The fog lamp relay current capacity is quite likely less than that needed for the glow plugs. The use of a real fog lamp relay repositioned to the glow plug socket may not tolerate being so overloaded for a long time and may melt, burnout, or short circuit.
The use of the originally installed plain metal clip from the fog lamp relay socket will be of sufficient capacity to be used indefinitely in the glow plug circuit on the '97 with the remote, 180, glow plug relay.

 

[slapshotjh]

The use of the originally installed plain metal clip from the fog lamp relay socket will be of sufficient capacity to be used indefinitely in the glow plug circuit on the '97 with the remote, 180, glow plug relay.

That is exactly what I did last night. I took the factory fog light jumper out of the donor car and put it in position 12 last night. I seem to have a relay in position 10 for the fog lights, so that stays where it is. I was able to read pins 4 and 6 on the relay board and noticed they were just like the fog light jumper I saw pictured on the site.

 

[Lug_Nut]

My car started. I must have put it in correctly. Come to think of it, I did put a real fog light relay in and replaced the jumper there. I'll see if I can find that if you don't have one in your panel.

Aha! Too many "it" and "there" and other less well defined descriptive words for me to understand at first.
You didn't put a fog lamp relay in position 12, after all. You put a fog lamp relay in the fog lamp socket.

 

[rdkern]

Aha! Too many "it" and "there" and other less well defined descriptive words for me to understand at first.
You didn't put a fog lamp relay in position 12, after all. You put a fog lamp relay in the fog lamp socket.

Sorry for my confusing post. Some days are like that.

You are correct. The fog light relay was put in when I got my fog lights and replaced the jumper in whatever location that is. I put the white "relay" back in correctly, apparently.

 

[topgut]

97 B4 fuse/relay panel

I have the knee board out of my 97 TDI B4 right now. It uses the FA ECU. Does anyone want me to take a picture of it? It has the white 'jumper' relay in position 12. No numbers on it. There are VW/Audi numbers on the side of it. I can post them as well. The pic / numbers might be helpfull down the road.......J

 

[Lug_Nut]

Yes, definitely. Try to not get flash bounce-back that would obscure the code numbers by keeping a slight angle between the camera and the top of the relays. Or use a solid mount, slower 'shutter' speed and no flash. Try a couple to see which reproduces the best detail.
E-mail me the picture file and I'll insert it in the top post with photo credit.

 

[VW97JettaTDI]

ok first off i have a photo of my 97 jetta tdi fuse panel (but dont know how to post it....)
Second i have the following fault codes and my battery drains if i leave it connected.

01050 - Glow Plug Monitoring
35-10 - - - Intermittent
00542 - Needle lift Sensor (G80)
27-00 - Implausible Signal
00513 - Engine Speed Sensor (G28)
03-10 - No Signal - Intermittent
00527 - Intake Manifold Temperature Sensor (G72)
30-00 - Open or Short to Plus
01265 - Exhaust Gas Recirculation Valve (N18)
31-10 - Open or Short to Ground - Intermittent
01117 - Generator Terminal DF Load Signal
27-10 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent
00626 - Glow Plug Indicator Light (K29)
31-10 - Open or Short to Ground - Intermittent
HELP

 

[VW97JettaTDI]

i have relay 104 and 180 on mine so i just purchased a 180 from C&M, was the last one and should be here in a couple days, do you think it could be 104 too?

here is my fuse panel http://pics.tdiclub.com/showphoto.php?photo=57028&cat=500&ppuser=81691

 

[Lug_Nut]

"Glow Plug Monitoring" indicates that the ECU is looking for the equal power consumption of glow plugs 1 and 2 to match the consumption of plugs 3 and 4. That signal comes from relay '180', not relay '103'.
You mentioned that you "have relay '104'...on mine", where is it located in (or on) the relay block?

I'm going to guess, but I suspect that your '97 is like the '97 I used as a donor for my Cabrio conversion and that it needs the '180' relay with its internal monitoring circuit, and that it can't use the less expensive one.

Those first five intermittant faults are all sensors that are connected through the black cylindrical multi-pin plug on the engine head near the clutch end. Check for a less than ideal connection.
I don't think the generator signal runs through this same connection point.
The glow plug indicator lamp may be related to the '180' relay.

 

[Lug_Nut]

Click on my name to the left, scroll down to "send e-mail", and mail me a copy of the image. I'll be able to post it into the first thread with the other relay block images

 

[dieseljunkie]

While logged inm I clicked on the link below and got this message: "You must be a registered user to view images!

To register click on the REGISTER button in the menu above."

Anyone else get this? When I clicked "Register" it says I am already a registered user.

i have relay 104 and 180 on mine so i just purchased a 180 from C&M, was the last one and should be here in a couple days, do you think it could be 104 too?

here is my fuse panel http://pics.tdiclub.com/showphoto.php?photo=57028&cat=500&ppuser=81691

 

[TonyJetta]

It is a separate server and therefore requires a separate login....though it uses the same login as the main tdiclub site.

 

[mogly]

On my '96 it was mounted directly above the fuse panel on the inside of the firewall. Not sure if the '97s are different and they're mounted on the fuse panel itself. That would be much easier to check.

 

[dieseljunkie]

According to the pic below from the first post of this thread, I am missing relays 72 & 110, and I have a relay 191 where relay 21 is. What do these relays do? I am going to search for the answer but if I don't find it, feel free to chime in. Thanks!

http://pics.tdiclub.com/data/500/medium/96_B4_relays.jpg

 

[Lug_Nut]

Which "72" is missing?

Relay position #2, (right side up "72" in this image) is for the rear wiper / washer system.

Relay position #5 (the upside down "72") Is for the (to be filled in when I remember just what the heck it is used it for).
<edit> I can't determine what that relay was left there for. There is no listing of any relay being needed in position #5 in the GLX donor on which this conversion was based, nor in the TDI driveline and engine wiring I stuffed into the GLX. The water temperature gauge and sender are connected to a branch of the position #5 relay socket, but do not run through the socket so leaving this position empty would appear to be correct.<end edit>

Relay position #6 (21) is for the emergency flasher. If your flashers (and directionals) work, then I'd leave this 191 in place for now. My 98 Jetta had the 191. Please see the third image in post 1 for reference.


Relay position #10 (where I installed the "110") is for the fog lamps. This is usually just a metal jumper bridge clip in the North American GLS trim Passats that were sold with no fog lamps. I installed a relay to limit the use of the fog lamps to only in conjunction with the low beam headlights. A relay "53", like the one used for the horn in location #11, is typically used here for the fog lamps, but the "110" has a higher contact rating, I had one, but did not have a second "53".

In any situation, these three have nothing to do with the glow plug circuit. That green painted metal cased circuit breaker is for the power windows, the 10 amp fuse is for some other nonsense, cruise control maybe? If you had ABS the fuses for that controller would also be tucked up in the rat's nest. too.

 

[Lug_Nut]

Enough editing, time for a fresh post.
The glow plug coil is energized for only a few moments at comfortable temperatures. Disconnect (electrically unplug) the water temperature sensor to trick the engine computer into thinking it's sub-zero. The computer would then keep the glow relay coil energized for many seconds before timing out. That might be enough time to check the test lamp.
The 96 Passat has other test points that are more easily accessed. Please read post # 7 in this thread to locate more easily reached test points.

 

[Digital Corpus]

I've had my glow plug light bug me for the past month and a half with numerous resets. Fuses all good, harness and plugs are less than a year old and I didn't want to drop the money on a new 180 relay. I noticed that relay 103 is a bridge for the system. Pulled that out and noticed some corrosion. Cleaned that to a nice shine and put it back in. Once this heatwave passes and it gets cool (anything >70F is warm for me, and cold for most of you is <30F) I'll see if it comes back. If it doesn't, I think this should be added to the check list of things to check before replacing the relay or harness.

 

[savannah996]

im looking for some help, it seems you guys have a lot of relay panel experience. i put my 98 jetta tdi (iz) into a 97 jetta 2.0.
i kept the fuze/relay panels in the respective cars, and just removed the engine wiring harnesses of both cars from the fuze/relay panels and plugged my tdi's harness into the 2.0's fuze box.

well here is the problem.
1. the tdi starts and runs well.
2. the glow plug and cel lights do not flash when the ignition key is cycled. (yes i did swap the gauge clusters)
3. a scan tool cannot connect to the ecu through the obdII port.
4. i did briefly install relay 180 into socket 12 which caused it to smoke.
-
-
-
everything else is working good on the car, im just worried the tdi ecu isnt getting power and this is causing the glow plugs to not operate and also i cant get and codes out. im installing my boost gauge tomorrow to check on boost pressure.

 

[savannah996]

this is the fuze box as it is now with the exception of relay 167, it is removed now.

 

[savannah996]

also top right corner, anyone know what 53 and 173 are for? power windows and or sunroof maybe?

 

[Lug_Nut]

Fuse, not fuze. This isn't the name of a caffeinated drink.
Please go back to post #7 in this thread. The position 12 in the A3 TDI are empty.

The fuse and relay block is the same. The relays aren't. The complete 1998 electrical system, including the "remote" relay mount connections snapped to the top of VW's "12 fold relay" block need to be used. Some of these are quite important, such as the wiring to the back of the car. Some aren't that critical. I can't tell so I swap them all and go from there.
Relay location 12 is wired to the fuel pump in the tank of the 2.0 gasser. Relay location 12 on the A3 and B4 is used in some fashion for the glow plug circuit. Exchanging the relay plugged into the front doesn't change the wiring on the back.

 

[savannah996]

edit.

what would be nice to know is where my glow plugs are actually wired to right now so i can stop guessing, haha. i will follow the wire back from the 50 amp fuse on the fire wall, to the fuse box, then i will buy a new 180 relay and put it in. (when all this dam rain stops)

then i will work on the ecu issue

 

[savannah996]

on second thought i will wait till my bentley gets here.

 

[Lug_Nut]

Good idea to get the Bentley, because that 50 amp fuse on the firewall isn't for the four combustion chamber glow plugs.
<-- rolling eyes in disbelief (not sarcasm).

 

[savannah996]

well that is what someone said here, (about the fuse) however when i looked at it the wires didnt look right.
what IS the fuse on the firewall for anyways?

 

[MOGolf]

also top right corner, anyone know what 53 and 173 are for? power windows and or sunroof maybe?

173 can be for radiator fans. 53 can be the starter inhibit relay.