A Week in a Prius

Olbrenner

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Just spent the past week with a 2010 Prius, some pluses and some minuses.

First the plus side: the good gas mileage is there, at one point my average according to the trip computer went as high as 58.8, averaged a little over 51 for the tank, mainly highway with the cruise set at 70, total miles about 425, 11.9 gallon gas tank so a range of over 500 would be easy. It will run on electricity for short slow speed distances, that was fun to see how well that could work, less than 25MPH, maybe 1/4 to a 1/2 mile. Silence at stops, everything continues to work well, AC, wipers, radio, lights. The mileage is the big plus, lesser one's would be quiet, comfortable, enough room in the back for my 100# dog, good stereo, good AC (I live in the south). On the way back from the aforementioned use of that first tank I set the cruise at 65 with more two lane highway as well, it averaged a little over 55, which leads to the not so good.

The Prius likes slow. The first tank showed that fact, mileage increased in city driving. That car would be great for gridlock driving, stop and go, slow moving, it's the go part that's difficult. Watching the readouts if maximum mileage is to be achieved, the egg under the gas pedal will do it but it won't make anyone behind you happy. If it's lightfooted that little bomber can only be described as sluggish, very sluggish. There is a power button that can be pushed but it doesn't appear to do much. If pushed hard it has enough pep, with the CVT it is very smooth. The brakes are not linear, grabby at the top of the pedal which if you're careful can be avoided. The transition between cruise and off is very abrupt, not smooth at all. I learned it was much smoother to turn the cruise off manually than to rely on the brake function to do that. The transition between electric and gas propulsion is noticeable, it's only minor but still felt. A constant dash reflection is mildly annoying but it's not too bad. No seat height adjustment for the passenger, for me, 6'1", that was okay, wife at 5'4" appeared to be sitting in a hole. Higher trim package may be available for that problem. Many expensive options, radar adaptive cruise, moonroof with solar powered ventilation, leather, as examples could easily push the price into the low 30's.

So would I consider buying one over a new TDI, maybe. The perceived quality advantage of Toyota, lower maintenance costs in all probability. The battery pack has to be warrantied for 150K in California would mean it will probably last longer than that so I don't think that's an issue taking into consideration timing belt and transmission fluid changes if the DSG option is selected for a TDI. But overall the thing is pretty dull, as much time as is spent in a car the fun factor must be considered, that might be enough to tilt me to the TDI.
 

GoFaster

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My big beef with the Prius isn't the hybrid powertrain ... it's the video-game-like steering and the limp suspension. You turn the steering wheel and it feels like it's connected to nothing, just spinning on a bearing. The car changes direction by some miraculous coincidence, but it sure doesn't feel connected.

I've driven the 2004+ version of the Prius, not the new one. I don't know if they've done something about this. Grossly over-assisted power steering is a trait shared with every other recent Toyota family-oriented vehicle I have driven and I won't buy one until they fix this.
 

CMB430

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From a realistic, practical point of view, the assessment seems correct. I sat in 2 of them...newer...at Carmax when my wife and I were looking for a car for her, which we decided on a new Rabbit. I have always thought the exterior was ugly...the interior is not much better in my opinion.

I like to get it wet now and then and diesels have always done that for me. Reviews, this Site and a mortgage drove me from a truck to the TDI. When I want to move and hear some power and take a hill, VW has provided me the ability to do so at a meger $0.06 per gallon fuel costs.

From a "man's" view, I would not feel right going to a NRA meeting, loading some "bang" and going to the range or going hunting in a Prius...it just does not fit with me.

The car has its purpose, and I am all about capitalism, so I hold nothing against Toyota or those who like them. The car just does not impress me any more or less than a Saturn, Chevy or Honda.
 

Diesel_Mikey

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GoFaster said:
Grossly over-assisted power steering is a trait shared with every other recent Toyota family-oriented vehicle I have driven and I won't buy one until they fix this.
Agreed. I drove a rent-a-Corolla for a few days in July and never got over the sense I was playing an arcade machine (and since there were no guns on the car, it wasn't even RoadBlasters :( .) I could never see myself living with that kind of numb driving experience on an ongoing basis...it was actually a little scary until I sorta got used to it...sorta.
 

SootFoot

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*If* I was considering a hybrid I would opt for the Ford Fusion hybrid. Up to 45mph on electric only. And actually looks like a car and not a door stop.
 

TurbinePower

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My mother's Equinox ('07, I think) feels mushy to steer, too, but I think a lot of that is coming from all my own manual steering VWs. I deal with having to beef it about at slow speeds to get my definitely connected feeling at speed.

I drive a bus, my arms are already used to cranking wheels about. :p
 

GoFaster

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The Fusion is also supposed to have decent road manners and suspension calibration (for a family car). Haven't driven one, though. If pushed to buy a hybrid, that's what I'd pick ... but pushed to buy a Fusion, I'd pick a plain 4-banger manual-tranny model rather than the hybrid!
 

lbhskier37

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GoFaster said:
The Fusion is also supposed to have decent road manners and suspension calibration (for a family car). Haven't driven one, though. If pushed to buy a hybrid, that's what I'd pick ... but pushed to buy a Fusion, I'd pick a plain 4-banger manual-tranny model rather than the hybrid!
I thought about the Fusion hybrid too, but the batteries take up room in the trunk and remove the trunk passthrough. I wouldn't buy a sedan without trunk passthrough anymore. I still am thinking about the 4 banger-manual, but the Fusion just doesn't have the practicality of the JSW.
 

barshnik

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I've had a couple of Priii as rentals in CA, and strangely enjoyed them in an arcade game sort of way. Long term I'd get a little bored except when filling with gas. I test drove a Fusion hybrid for the heck of it, and I must say that it is a pretty impressive ride in more of a 'car' sort of way. Yea, the trunk is a little small for the size of the car, but I found it very comfortable inside, well put-together, and pretty responsive for what it is. Oh, and the stereo doesn't suck.

---edit--- First post is a very well written review, BTW.

John F
LV, NV
'09 JSW TDi, DSG, no hole in the roof
 
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McBrew

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I like the idea of a Prius, or other fuel-efficient hybrid car... but I would need to know that it can safely tow up to about 2,000 pounds. Some quick math shows that I have towed a trailer for about 4-5% of my car's life. Can't justify a truck... especially since it would need to tow a trailer, too... since most of the stuff I'm moving won't fit in most trucks (full sheets of plywood/MDF, 12' lumber, large furniture, etc).
 

ikendu

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McBrew said:
I like the idea of a Prius, or other fuel-efficient hybrid car... but I would need to know that it can safely tow up to about 2,000 pounds. Some quick math shows that I have towed a trailer for about 4-5% of my car's life. Can't justify a truck... especially since it would need to tow a trailer, too... since most of the stuff I'm moving won't fit in most trucks (full sheets of plywood/MDF, 12' lumber, large furniture, etc).
Many small, front wheel drive cars are limited to 1000 lbs. I tow a trailer with my '03 Golf TDI but I was careful to keep the total weight below 750 lbs. I had a hard time finding any reliable data on what was safe to tow with a TDI.

Here's mine: :)




Aren't you the guy with the Sprinter van?
 

CMB430

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IKENDU, what are the specs and type of trailer you are towing? My wife and I are looking at buying a LittleGuy or a T@B but leaning toward the LittleGuy for cost and needs. Thanks in advance!
 

SootFoot

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I have to make a confession, actually. From a strictly commuting point of view, a Ford Fusion hybrid would be better for my wife. She drives the TDI. Her work commute is short and is all secondary roads where she does not exceed 45mph most of the time. She could probably log an all electric day in the commute dept with the fusion, since she often walks across the street for lunch or comes back home (same short route).

But the TDI isn't going anywhere. Its paid off (as of two months ago) and I make a point of it that it gets used for long errand run drives at least twice a week maybe three times, to where the engine gets hot and stays, and an Italian Tune-up is applied while driving (once its hot).
 
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McBrew

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ikendu, your Golf is rated to tow a lot more than 1,000 pounds. Most auto manufacturers rate their vehicles unusually low in the US because we are idiots who drive irresponsibly and like to sue people (or companies) when we screw up. If you go over to the UK site, you'll see that they rate the new Golf with the 90hp TDI engine for 2,890 pounds (1,314 kg). The Golf with the 140hp engine and the DSG transmission is rated to tow 3,073 lb. Yes, this would be a trailer with brakes, but it is still a hefty rating compared to what they rate them for here in the US.

My Scion is the same way... it is rated to tow 0 pounds in the US, and 1,900 pounds in the UK. You'll find this to be true with almost any car. In Europe, a lot of people wouldn't buy a car if it wasn't rated to tow. Also, there are laws against lawsuit abuse in most countries. Here in 'merica, some idiot is going to tow a 3,000 pound trailer at 85 MPH in the rain with a Golf and kill somebody... then he's going to try to figure out who to blame for it.

Yes, I have a Sprinter... but why would I want to drive it around all the time? It only gets 23 MPG... so I only use it when necessary. It's kind of overkill to tow a 1,000 pound trailer with a truck that is made to tow 6,000 pounds... especially when the 1,000 pound trailer is well within my car's true tow rating and will get 50% better fuel economy and be way more comfortable to drive than the Sprinter.

Anyone who thinks the brakes on a TDI (or my Scion, for that matter) are not capable of safely stopping a 1,500 pound trailer doesn't know much about towing. Everything you put in your car technically makes it take longer to stop. The key is that you have to drive responsibly. You need to allow more room to stop. Just the same with a tractor trailer. The more weight in the trailer, the longer the stopping distance. I have a diesel van that I use to tow my boat. I can stop a 1,500 pound trailer with the SCion a lot shorter than the van will stop with the boat behind it. And, yes... the van and boat trailer brakes work perfectly... it just takes longer to stop. There's nothing wrong with that.
 
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Funguy

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I gotta agree that the Fusion Hybrid looks good. I was thinking about one for my wife but the price tag took the wind out of the sails for us.
Sticking with the old ride for now. Oh and my 02 tdi is not going anywhere without me. My kid keeps asking me for it but I tell her to keep dreamin' :)
 

Blackknight

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Diesel_Mikey said:
Agreed. I drove a rent-a-Corolla for a few days in July and never got over the sense I was playing an arcade machine (and since there were no guns on the car, it wasn't even RoadBlasters :( .) I could never see myself living with that kind of numb driving experience on an ongoing basis...it was actually a little scary until I sorta got used to it...sorta.
Hyundai is the same way, the steering is very sloppy compared to my Jetta. When I got my car back it was like night and day.
 

ikendu

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Iowa
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McBrew said:
ikendu, your Golf is rated to tow a lot more than 1,000 pounds.
When I first started thinking about towing a trailer, I had a Honda Civic >hangs head in shame< , yes, not a diesel.

Anyway, I had no, zero, nadda experience with pulling a trailer. So... I read a bunch of posts all over the internet on camping forums, RVs, Fred's, etc. about people with experience towing.

Wow! Did I ever find a wide range of opinions!

So... being pretty safety minded, I went the conservative route and vowed to keep everything under 1000 lbs. I even read various people that said "to play it safe, keep it to 75% of the towing limit" ...so, I kept it under 750 lbs.

There are not a lot of choices for trailers that when loaded are under 750 lbs.

Mine is. Do I wish it was bigger? In a word... yes.

But! I've also been rewarded with a VERY forgiving trailering situation. I do plan ahead. I drive more carefully. That very, very light trailer pulls like its not even there. So... mostly I'm happy but I had seen that in Europe, people were routinely pulling more than 1000 lbs.

I think if I had to do all over again, I might get the next size up trailer.

Mine is the Aliner "Alite" (weighs 500 lbs empty).
The next size up is the Scout at 1050 lbs.

Still, my Alite is so light and handy that one person can simply man-handle it around at a campground; even in an unimproved field. So... even though it is small, it has its advantages. Keeps these old bones from having to sleep on the ground when we go camping. You can put it anywhere a tent will go (other than backpacking).

Columbia Northwest line of folding trailers: the Aliners
http://www.aliner.com/design/products_detail_aliner.php#6?sectid=5

We looked at just about every conceivable, small camper before buying the Alite.
 

ikendu

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CMB430 said:
IKENDU, what are the specs and type of trailer you are towing? My wife and I are looking at buying a LittleGuy or a T@B but leaning toward the LittleGuy for cost and needs. Thanks in advance!
We looked at the LittleGuy. It's cute! We picked the Alite because even at 6' 1" I can stand up in the Alite and even spread out my arms (which are long). Being able to stand makes changing your clothes a lot easier. When I lay down in the Alite, I can stretch out full length and not touch my head or feet on the trailer (just).

We thought about the T@B or a Scamper but in the end, I went with the really, really light trailer.
 

TurbinePower

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McBrew said:
Anyone who thinks the brakes on a TDI (or my Scion, for that matter) are not capable of safely stopping a 1,500 pound trailer doesn't know much about towing. Everything you put in your car technically makes it take longer to stop. The key is that you have to drive responsibly. You need to allow more room to stop. Just the same with a tractor trailer. The more weight in the trailer, the longer the stopping distance. I have a diesel van that I use to tow my boat. I can stop a 1,500 pound trailer with the SCion a lot shorter than the van will stop with the boat behind it. And, yes... the van and boat trailer brakes work perfectly... it just takes longer to stop. There's nothing wrong with that.
Just a minor quibble, but the brakes on most commercial vehicles work best when they're fully loaded; you actually can take longer to stop when you're unloaded than when you're loaded, as you have to apply less and less force to keep from locking up the rear brakes. With no load on them, they're very prone to locking.

Yes, you will take longer to stop when loaded, due to the extra mass, but your braking effectiveness increases as you load into where the brakes were designed to work.
 

MrMopar

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TurbinePower said:
Just a minor quibble, but the brakes on most commercial vehicles work best when they're fully loaded; you actually can take longer to stop when you're unloaded than when you're loaded, as you have to apply less and less force to keep from locking up the rear brakes. With no load on them, they're very prone to locking.

Yes, you will take longer to stop when loaded, due to the extra mass, but your braking effectiveness increases as you load into where the brakes were designed to work.
My Ram pickup that is getting destroyed from C4C was that way. There was supposed to be some brake proportioning valve that would vary the amount of brake pressure fed to the rear drums depending on the load in the bed, and I guess it worked sometimes. When the truck was unloaded in the winter, it was an absolute rhino-on-rollerskates to drive. Any sort of braking action past medium pressure, and the front discs would lock (lose steering) while the rear drums wouldn't. The engine had an automatic choke that never worked right - it never came off high idle when it was really cold. The engine torque from high idle would continue to power the rear wheels when you were trying to brake, so I'd end up having to shift to neutral whenever I wanted to brake. It was dicey at best to ever drive it unloaded with snow on the ground. As soon as I started putting 800 pounds of roofing shingle in the bed for winter driving, the truck would start driving straight with no problems on wet or dry pavement.
 

Olbrenner

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McBrew said:
I like the idea of a Prius, or other fuel-efficient hybrid car... but I would need to know that it can safely tow up to about 2,000 pounds. Some quick math shows that I have towed a trailer for about 4-5% of my car's life. Can't justify a truck... especially since it would need to tow a trailer, too... since most of the stuff I'm moving won't fit in most trucks (full sheets of plywood/MDF, 12' lumber, large furniture, etc).
From the owner's manual of the Prius: trailer towing is not recommended as well as not even installing a hitch to facilitate carrying a wheel chair as an example. In other words towing capacity zero. At least with a diesel there's some ability to throw on a hitch.
 

NB_TDi

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Did you calcutate the mileage or just enjoy the show on the screen? I'd take those numbers with a grain if you know what I mean.

I never use any computers to come up with my numbers, excep the final calculation in excel.
 

McBrew

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Olbrenner said:
From the owner's manual of the Prius: trailer towing is not recommended as well as not even installing a hitch to facilitate carrying a wheel chair as an example. In other words towing capacity zero. At least with a diesel there's some ability to throw on a hitch.
True... even the UK site also says no towing for the Prius. However, for other Toyota vehicles, they say the same thing int he US manual, while they allow towing to some degree with nearly all of their cars (including the Yaris) in Europe.
 

ducesrwld

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besides the gas mileage of a prius there is no comparison...had to drive one for a rental and was glad to get back to the rental garage to drop it off and get back in my TDI.
 
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