A Third Alternative Fuel - used aviation oil

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unitacx

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The good news -- it's free; a sort-of dino version of WVO -- used aviation motor oil.

Just go to a local airport, look for a repair station, and ask for used aviation oil from piston
engine aircraft. Avoid the oil used in turbine and diesel aircraft.

Converting Your Car to a Waste Aviation Oil Burner

All you need is a "primary filter". There are various versions,
including Mercedes' primary filter. The one I recommend is
the small glass in-line filter sold at Parts R Us stores as an in-line
gas filter for hot rods:
(universal Glas Kraftsfilter)
The elements are replaceable but are just as easy to clean each time
they're taken apart.

What Can Go Wrong

ONE MAJOR ISSUE - IT CAN'T BE USED ON A CATALYTIC CONVERTOR CAR DUE TO LEAD!

One time, after dumping about a gallon of this stuff in my tank at the
airport, the car (a 123 Mercedes) showed fuel starvation. For a second
I was wondering if I ruined my injection pump or something. Then I
figured it out. When I got home, I just opened the primary filter and
wiped off a bunch of old leaves, bird droppings, mouse nesting
materials, etc. from the filter screen. The increased viscosity of
the aviation oil seemed to disagree with a bunch of weeds and dead bugs in the filter.

That's all. That's the reason
I recommend one of those primary filters. They're a good idea.

The used aviation oil is also useful should you need to add fuel
lubricant for whatever reason.

This stuff has a lot of lead, so it will deteriorate the catalytic
converter.

I suppose it can gel-up in cold weather, although I never experienced it
personally. For one thing, local fuel will be "lighter" in the winter.
If winter flow is a problem, add some kerosene or Diesel 1.

Why this Works

Piston aircraft engines use ashless detergent motor oil. Aircraft
mechanics refer to their detergent oil as "AD" and non-detergent oil as
"mineral oil" but the important part is that motor oil used in piston
aircraft uses ashless detergents (or in the case of mineral oil, no
detergent). So it will burn quite nicely in a diesel car.

Turbine oil and diesel oil are not suitable. In the case of turbine
oil, the detergent may be ash-producing (I'm not sure). Diesel aviation
oil is the stuff we use in our cars, which is definitely ash-type
detergent.

- stan
'00 Golf (Rocketchip II, 520, TT 17 wheels, Valeo ECE lights)
'62 M20C
 
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Drivbiwire

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We need a TDI Darwin Award...

I know who I would nominate

DB
 

unitacx

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Drivbiwire said:
We need a TDI Darwin Award...

I know who I would nominate
Maybe so, but I've been doing this since about '94 without fuel system problems. This is with a 123 Mercedes, which I still have.

I don't think this will work on a TDI because of the lead which accumulates in the oil. (I'll edit the post to clarify this!)
 

Drivbiwire

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On an old IDI motor that uses Pintle injectors, sure and not much different than the old style big boat diesels running Bunker fuel.

The problem is not even the lead but the small amounts of wear metals in the oil that can fuse to the cylinder walls and pistons during combustion.

This has to be one of the greatest ways to trash a motor and fuel system.

This does not even take into account the wear caused to the fuel pump and injectors internal passages from the wear metals.

DB
 

TwoSlick

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Outstanding Idea!!!

This falls under the catagory of: "thinning the herd"
The weak, sick and most stupid animals are killed and devoured first, thereby improving the gene pool...;)

TS
 

BKmetz

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unitacx said:
Maybe so, but I've been doing this since about '94 without fuel system problems. This is with a 123 Mercedes, which I still have.

I don't think this will work on a TDI because of the lead which accumulates in the oil. (I'll edit the post to clarify this!)
OUCH! My eyes hurt just reading this.

Sir, your assumption is correct that a TDI should not be intentionally misfueled. You still need to learn why. There are many technical reasons why adding contaminates to the fuel should not be done.

Suffice to say, an old VW or MB diesel using low tech Bosch KCA pintle injectors at, say, ~130BAR/1850 PSI are much more forgiving than the high BAR/PSI systems used in modern diesel engines. For example, the current VW PD TDI is over 1360 BAR/20,000 PSI. The next generation common rail system will be even higher than that. These systems have no tolerance for fuel contamination.

DBW's criticism at first might seem harsh but, if you take the time to read the years worth of information contained on these forums and learn about the technical subtleties of modern diesel engines, his opinion and criticism is not out of line.

Good luck to you.
 

mrGutWrench

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Drivbiwire said:
(snip) This does not even take into account the wear caused to the fuel pump and injectors internal passages from the wear metals. DB
__. Agreed, but I'd add that av oil is probably about the worst in other ways. Since they're struggling to bring technology on av engines into the 1950's, Lyc/Cont/ (and Franklin ;) ), use internal clearances and tolerances that most small birds can fly through. Any oil that's been in an air-cooled av engine is going to be "pre-loaded" with blowby, partially burned fuel substances, and lots of other things that I would never want near my TDI.

__. There are bad ideas and there are spectacularly bad ideas. This is way over in the second group!
'
 

Drivbiwire

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2013 Passat TDI, Newmar Ventana 8.3L ISC 3945, 2016 E250 BT, 2000 Jetta TDI
I think about how the oil looked when I dumped the sump in the Beech-18 (R985). Just think these motors do NOT have an oil filter but instead use a metal screen to stop the "Chunks". Come to think of it quite a few planes today (O-470 used in the Cessna 182) still use a screen instead of a filter. I am just guessing but you would have metal particles floating around greater than 500 microns...you can fit a couple human hairs through the screens holes so thats about right.

To put that in perspective, the TDI fuel injectors have a .5 micron needle to wall clearance!

Imagine the damage you would do when metal particles get rolled over on the internal cam plate. Those metal particles would pit and totally destroy the contours. The Rollers should metal get in there would seize up causing the roller to drag and you would more than likely shear the input shaft and blow the timing belt...Yes you just totalled your whole motor!

And you thought a TDI fuel pump was cheap?

Sorry, beating a dead horse here.

By the way Italians on scooters are CRAZY! But not as crazy as running Av oil in a TDI...

laying over in Italy (Catania) :D

DB
 

mrGutWrench

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Drivbiwire said:
I think about how the oil looked when I dumped the sump in the Beech-18 (R985). (snip)
__. ROUND motors! Oh, yeah ... forgot about those. Well, the clearances and tolerances in those allow *large* birds to fly through them. I'd think that oil out of an R985 would be kinda like vegetable soup but with pieces of metal, silica, etc instead of vegetables. Yeah, R985's are really bad, old engines. If you know anybody who has one, I'd be glad to take it off his hands. I'll even pick it up for him .... (now, to find a run-out Stearman ....).

__. But there's worse. We use Pezetel Dormeders as Water Bombers at the NC Forest Service. They have a Polish copy of a 1930's Wright radial - about 675 horses ... course, being Polish horses they seem a little smaller than ours. On those, we have to chase the bald eagles and buzzards out ot the engines before we start them because they can get past the clearances and tolerances in those engines to build nests. And if you think the oil from an R985 is soupy .... Some of the cropdusters around here are converting Dromeders to PT-6 engines (which, of course, totally transforms the airplane). But I'm glad we're still running the round engines so that we can use the oil as fuel in our diesels.
'
 

mrGutWrench

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jackbombay said:
... and the lead in the oil would make for some terrible emissions, when did we do away with leaded gasoline? 20 years ago?
__. But "Ole Blue" -- 100 LL -- will really help with that, right ???? :D Um, no, 100 "Low Lead" has something like 6-8 times the amount of lead per gallons as 1974 "Super Premium" leaded MoGas. Makes me shudder to think about the amount of lead in the old 100/130 (or even 115/145) -- that stuff would probably break your shoulder if you tried to pick up a gallon jug of it.
'
 

unitacx

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Location
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Okay, you guys convinced me.. not even in the MBZ, which is in fact a low pressure diesel. While the filter may get most of the particles, the spec for #2 diesel doesn't include chunks of disintegrating oil pumps, cut ends of safetywire, gravel bits picked up by the prop, etc.

I'll let the greasecar guys deal with the pieces of eggshell and french fry bits. (They apparently have the filters to deal with that.)

mrGutWrench said:
__. ... no, 100 "Low Lead" has something like 6-8 times the amount of lead per gallons as 1974 "Super Premium" leaded MoGas.
Actually less. 100LL was something like 2.5 or 2.75 g/gal, but now it's supposedly at 1.12. Not sure about the 2.5 but I do know it was higher than 1.12. The higher leaded premium car gasolines were in the 3.5 range. "Low lead" was 0.5 g/gal which is why "6 times the lead" would have been accurate. (A car will get more lead buildup from avgas than leaded mogas too.)

Green (100/130) was in the 4 range. That was an advantage when I used small amounts in a turbo Corvair, mixed with a full tank of unleaded. The effect of TEL is inverse-exponential, meaning the first 0.2 g is as effective as the next 0.4 g, etc. But that's something called "octane".
 
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