A spacious EV for road trips: will it become real for $50K in 2023?

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Location
South of Boston
TDI
'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
If I dig I can find articles saying that van was coming to us in 2004 in an ICE version. It's been promised multiple times since then: it was at the '17 Detroit Auto show, slated for production in '19. My prediction it it will not happen, not ever.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis (where it's safe)
TDI
There are just too many to list....
OK, then, spend $37k and get the Metris instead. No diesel for us, unfortunately, but they are at least a fairly efficient DI turbo 4 with a nicely matched transmission. They have IRS, too, they drive like a sports car, LOL.

They consume about the same amount of fuel as the 4 cyl diesel Sprinters, perhaps a bit more depending on load.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Location
South of Boston
TDI
'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
Come on Peter, don't spoil the party :D
The Microbus irritates me because I really wanted one when the concept was first floated. Our kids were still young and our Previa (best. van. ever.) was aging. But 17 years later I'm just bitter about it.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis (where it's safe)
TDI
There are just too many to list....
The New Beetle's Concept 1 started around 1990.... I remember because they were flirting with using a waterboxer in one (as it was still rear-engined). Then the waterboxer went away with the T3 (Vanagon) in 1991. So then they had a kluged in inline engine in the back, but still longitudinal, then it morphed into a rear-engined transverse arrangement (like an MR2 or Fiero, but the differential was placed in FRONT of the engine, like the Toyota IQ does), then it eventually got placed on the new-for-1998 Golf 4 platform. So it took almost a decade, and it changed considerably, although amazingly its styling seemed to be very close to the original concept.
 

Tdijarhead

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 10, 2013
Location
Lawrenceville PA
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2003 TDI Jetta Daughters Car, 2001 TDI Beetle, Daughters car, 2005 Golf TDI Mine, all 5 spds
Road trip-EV , Oxymoron

On our anniversary last year, there were no restaurants open for dine in, so my wife and I went to the Subway at Walmart and then drove to the Baskin Robbins in Corning NY to sit and eat in their parking lot and finish with ice cream. Baskin Robbins just happens to be next to The Tesla Supercharger station and for the first time I actually saw a Tesla being charged,,when we pulled in he was already there. It was a nice friday evening and he was sitting on the curb scrolling his phone.

While eating, 2 more Teslas pulled up to charge, Friday must be charging night in Corning. We finished our subs and pulled up to the drive thru at Baskin Robbins then went back to more Tesla watching. By this time everyone, drivers and two passengers were sitting on the curb doing the phone dance. We finished our ice cream and after a total of about 45 minutes with no movement from any of the Tesla crowd not even the guy who was there before us, we left, I drove about 6 miles to my favorite diesel station and filled up. I'll bet all three of those Teslas were still there and probably at least 2 of them were still there when we made it home the additional 10 miles after our fill up.

Between all the electronic devices we have, cars, phones etc we sure waste a lot of time. Just sayin.
 

turbobrick240

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 18, 2014
Location
maine
TDI
2011 vw golf tdi(gone to greener pastures), 2001 ford f250 powerstroke
I think the Buzz is coming in a couple of years. I understand the skepticism though. The last photo of a prototype I saw wasn't nearly as attractive as the original concept. They had added a lot of the angular lines that seem to be in vogue these days. Pretty normal for a concept vehicle to change like that for production, but disappointing nonetheless.
 

compu_85

Gadget Guy
Joined
Sep 29, 2003
Location
Springfield VA
TDI
... None :S
Road trip-EV , Oxymoron
So while you were eating your ice cream several Teslas visited a supercharger, and this somehow an issue?

We're on another road trip in our '18 Model 3 right now. The odometer just rolled past 125,000! We've driven the car on 3 cross country road trips, and visited all 48 continental US states.



In my opinion it road trips really well :)

Regarding the ID Buzz, I'll believe it when I see it. A new Microbus as been coming soon since at least 2001. There's certainly demand for an EV Van, and something neat / retro would get some good attention.

-J
 

Tdijarhead

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 10, 2013
Location
Lawrenceville PA
TDI
2003 TDI Jetta Daughters Car, 2001 TDI Beetle, Daughters car, 2005 Golf TDI Mine, all 5 spds
Actually just taking note of the extended time it takes to charge even at a supercharger station, and after the station being there for over a year, that’s the first time I ever witnessed it being used.
 

Daemon64

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 19, 2019
Location
Tyngsborough, Massachusetts
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2015 Q5 3.0 TDI - Retired, 2021 Q5 55e PHEV
15 minutes? How many miles could that give you?

According to this a m3, "In 10 minutes I had reached 32% state of charge and added back 24 kWh. That's enough to power the Model 3 for 100 miles of 70-mph highway driving range. It took a total of 23 minutes to reach 65% SOC, at which point I added back 200 miles of range". That's on a V3 supercharger.
 

Ragdude

Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2021
Location
Phx
TDI
2015 VW Golf SEL TDi

According to this a m3, "In 10 minutes I had reached 32% state of charge and added back 24 kWh. That's enough to power the Model 3 for 100 miles of 70-mph highway driving range. It took a total of 23 minutes to reach 65% SOC, at which point I added back 200 miles of range". That's on a V3 supercharger.
hmmm not really a real world test, 70 mph will get you ran over on most interstates, and I don't want to stop every 100 miles either. I'm a big fan of EV's hopefully the next generation of batteries will take care of this issue.
 

turbobrick240

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 18, 2014
Location
maine
TDI
2011 vw golf tdi(gone to greener pastures), 2001 ford f250 powerstroke
Seems pretty real world to me. Other than charging from 0% SOC- that very rarely happens. They managed not to get killed, lol.
 

compu_85

Gadget Guy
Joined
Sep 29, 2003
Location
Springfield VA
TDI
... None :S
15 minutes? How many miles could that give you?
About 120 on the highway going 75+. We go from ~10% to ~60%.

Going from DC to Grand Rapids MI was 3 stops. We could have done it with 2 stops, but it would have taken longer. Plus getting out to stretch every ~2 hours is nice, and the dog needs to go for a walk anyway.

-J
 

UhOh

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 24, 2014
Location
PNW
TDI
2000 & 2003 Golf GLS
I'm not seeing a big future in road tripping. Look at our infrastructure lately? Think it's going to get better? Notice any increase in hostile drivers? No thank you.

Until I retire I'll continue to use my 20-year-old cars for commuting. IF there's an incentive to get my TDIs from my hands I'll consider it; but, retirement will have me driving less, in which case the equation changes (because I cannot state with any certainty how affordable things are likely to be I'm pretty much going to have to wait and adjust- I figure that at over 2x the FE that other IC drivers around me operate at I'm good for double the fuel cost; and, not needing to drive as much will mean that it'll be an even smaller part of my budget- and, how can an expensive, new [EV] vehicle be justifiable if barely used? All said, I'm more worried about what will happen with my diesel tractors than with my diesel cars! (EV tractors, um... sorry, unless one is totally clueless, and despite Elon Musk's marketing pitches, it's just not going to happen [if people want me to lay out the economic here I'd be happy to, but you're going to be put the the grinder if you're looking to take an opposing position.])

I have PV panels for my chicken coop and for my front gate opener (a rationalized cost to ensure my critters are protected). My wife's son drives a Tesla: with the pandemic it see little use; payments and little use... I've followed energy issues for nearly 40 years. I don't knee-jerk on this subject.

I'd like to think that going EV is going to eliminate our dirty wars, but, sadly, unlikely:

https://www.counterpunch.org/2020/07/29/we-will-coup-whoever-we-want-elon-musk-and-the-overthrow-of-democracy-in-bolivia/

Hydro-electric folks, people in my area (PNW), can't be blissful (hydro-electric beats everything by a mile) as the average lifespan of a hydro-electric dam is 100 years: the big Grand Coulee dam went operational in 1942, which gives it, on average, another 20 years. Pile on more EVs and when the dams quite working? Ouch! I'm struggling to see how there can be a future with EVs numbering anywhere close to what we currently have. Not commenting on this being good or bad. My point is to say that "economies of scale" aren't going to get us to the "promised land [of EVs]."

Again, I'm NOT anti anything, except anti non-thinking, anti "hide/externalize reality." It's all pretty much "poison," best we can do is be honest and ensure that we approximate real costs (killing indigenous peoples in order to increase the profit margin isn't something that we should accept; we have pretty extensive studies on how many fish hydro-electric dams kill, which, surprisingly, is fairly low, but no evaluation on human deaths as a result of other means for dealing with energy... [oil OR lithium etc.]).
 

turbobrick240

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 18, 2014
Location
maine
TDI
2011 vw golf tdi(gone to greener pastures), 2001 ford f250 powerstroke
Remember how quickly smartphones became ubiquitous? EVs are another disruptive technology that are following that trajectory- just on a somewhat elongated (no, that's not Elongate :) ) timeframe. There were lots of smartphone holdouts initially. Today, virtually everyone has a smartphone. Those who don't are seen as Luddites or tech illiterate. By 2040 there will be few, if any, ICE passenger vehicles left on the road.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Location
South of Boston
TDI
'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
We could argue this endlessly. No one really knows how fast the update will be. I was at an old friend's house in Maine yesterday and he's working on pulling his 1960 Type 2 Bus out of 35 years of hydronation and getting it back on the road. I drove up there in my 19 year-old TDI that shows no sign of giving up. I watch cars when I drive, saw fewer than 5 EVs on the 360 mile round trip.

But things could evolve quickly. Or not. No one knows.
 

tikal

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 18, 2001
Location
Southeast Texas
TDI
2004 Passat Wagon (chainless + 5 MT + GDE tune)
Ok, OH the MB Metris sounds interesting, but a gasser it is definitively a turn off for me at the moment. We already have a 2006 Mazda 5 that gets around 21 MPG. Yes not quite apple to apples but I consider a diesel ICE or an EV superior to gasoline in various ways (torque with efficiency being one of them).

So if a family electric vehicle like the ID Buzz does not materialiaze in the near future I could allways look at replacing a 2004 TDI wagon with a 2014 or 2015 TDI wagon. One advantage that diesel still has over gasoline in our area is that it is a very good 'evacuation vehicle' during hurricane season as diesel is always much more available than gasoline during disaster circumstances.
 
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