A different type cranking issue

[bowelder]

I have a 2013 TDI Golf with tech package.

My car cranks great, when it’s cold, it’s when it’s hot that it doesn’t.

If I crank my car on a cool morning, it’s perfect! Drive to work and turn it off, it won’t start back!

In the afternoon, if the temps are past 65F or so is doesn’t even try to start.

Sometimes I can try several times and it will but it doesn’t like heat.

I’ve changed the push button, the brake switch and the coolant temp sending unit, mostly because of watching videos and such

My trusted mechanic is 3 weeks out, I’m just trying to fix it myself

anyone ever have a weird problem like this?

thank you for listening

 

[DrGERTol]

Any VAG-specific fault codes to report ? --g

 

[bowelder]

Any VAG-specific fault codes to report ? --g

I don’t have a VAG

have been considering one though

any advice on where to get a complete VCDS?

 

[super1]

R

I don’t have a VAG

have been considering one though

any advice on where to get a complete VCDS?

Ross-Tech.com

 

[bowelder]

R
Ross-Tech.com

I see that they offer anything from the enthusiast version for $199 to the pro version for $1000+

would the enthusiast version do what I need? It doesn’t look like there’s anything additional that I’d need? Software?

 

[super1]

I see that they offer anything from the enthusiast version for $199 to the pro version for $1000+

would the enthusiast version do what I need? It doesn’t look like there’s anything additional that I’d need? Software?

I think one feature on the enthusiast has is that you can only scan 3 VIN numbers Pro is unlimited VIN & I think it has everything you need but call them up to make sure it does what you need to do

 

[DrGERTol]

Various resellers offer the HEX-V2 adapter, including FCP Euro and Europa Parts, both with free shipping.
The VCDS software runs in Windows, so a cheap Win 7/10/11 laptop is generally used. --g

 

[bowelder]

I think one feature on the enthusiast has is that you can only scan 3 VIN numbers Pro is unlimited VIN & I think it has everything you need but call them up to make sure it does what you need to do

thanks for your advice and for not treating a newbie like a dummy

 

[bowelder]

Various resellers offer the HEX-V2 adapter, including FCP Euro and Europa Parts, both with free shipping.
The VCDS software runs in Windows, so a cheap Win 7/10/11 laptop is generally used. --g

is the software just on the device when purchased or does it need to be loaded?

 

[DrGERTol]

is the software just on the device when purchased or does it need to be loaded?

Ross-Tech distributes their VCDS software as a (free) download here: https://www.ross-tech.com/vcds/download/current.php
The actual software use license resides in the HEX-V2 OBDII-to-USB adapter.
The software is updated regularly -- when your laptop has an Internet connection while you're using the software, VCDS will display a notification when an updated version is available for download. --g

 

[super1]

thanks for your advice and for not treating a newbie like a dummy

No worries
I did forget to mention that the software is free

 

[thatwhitejsw]

I picked up the enthusiast VCDS cable to share with my buddy who had also picked up an MK6 Wagon and its been invaluable so far. The amount of stuff you can do and all of the readouts it can provide is wonderful. If you're doing any amount of work on your car at all yourself, its basically essential. It's well worth the $200, I got mine from FCP since I really like those guys .

As far as your problem goes, I had been experiencing a very similar issue, where mine would start perfectly fine in the morning, but anywhere else I went, errands, etc.; restarting it would almost always be a problem. It would take sometimes 4-5 times of turning the key before it would start up without stumbling and dying out. I had replaced the lift pump because for some reason I thought it had maybe not been sending fuel properly, but it still occurred after that. Luckily that install was a breeze and the part was only about $100. Then I had remembered my shop mentioned to me when I had my timing belt done that the nipple on the auxiliary fuel pump up next to the engine had a slight leak. So I checked it out and sure enough it was definitely leaking to some extent. That right there led me to believe I was having a loss of fuel pressure or even air getting into the system (maybe?). I ordered a replacement from europa-parts which came as the whole unit with the bracket and all so I could just easily swap the two out and not have to mess with anything. So far I've only gotten the same problem to arise maybe 2 or 3 times over the past few weeks rather than damn near every single day. I had also changed my fuel filter at the same time. All of which you'd need VCDS for to be able to prime the fuel system a few times before starting the car up again.
So it would be worth taking a look at your aux fuel pump and making sure that nipple on the front isn't leaking, since from everything I've read, they're not tightened well from the factory; and I believe when they were in there doing my timing belt it may have gotten gossled enough to come a bit looser. Now- people say you can just remove the fitting, clean it up, and put some sealant on it with a new copper washer and tighten it all down, but I saw someone mention that they had tried this and it was still leaking for them afterwards. Which is why I just opted to buy the whole new assembly for ~$120.

Hope this helps!

 

[bowelder]

Mine either tries to start, or doesn’t even try. There’s no stumbling or anything. When the starter turns, it cranks and runs flawlessly, but when the engine is hot or the ambient temp is like 70ish, and I press the button, it doesn’t even attempt a crank

 

[super1]

Mine either tries to start, or doesn’t even try. There’s no stumbling or anything. When the starter turns, it cranks and runs flawlessly, but when the engine is hot or the ambient temp is like 70ish, and I press the button, it doesn’t even attempt a crank

Starter ?
Miles?

 

[T1MMBOJONES]

I don’t have a VAG

have been considering one though

any advice on where to get a complete VCDS?

i bought obd eleven for far cheaper than a vag com system. it may not do everything but it can read codes and do plenty of additional updates and change settings on things that typically only the dealer can access. i think it paid for itself and is great for the average diyer.

 

[super1]

i bought obd eleven for far cheaper than a vag com system. it may not do everything but it can read codes and do plenty of additional updates and change settings on things that typically only the dealer can access. i think it paid for itself and is great for the average diyer.

Yes, I forgot to mention OBD eleven is good as well
Could be a starter relay

 

[bowelder]

Starter ?
Miles?

I’d think it wasn’t the starter because in the winter temps when diesels are prone to slower cranking, mine did well. Although these VW cars never cease to surprise me.

there’s instrument lights that just do not come on sometimes and when that happens, it doesn’t even try to start.

no click, no start, no attempt

it’s like a relay somewhere or the ECM is just not signaling a start. Like some condition isn’t met

124K

 

[super1]

I’d think it wasn’t the starter because in the winter temps when diesels are prone to slower cranking, mine did well. Although these VW cars never cease to surprise me.

there’s instrument lights that just do not come on sometimes and when that happens, it doesn’t even try to start.

no click, no start, no attempt

it’s like a relay somewhere or the ECM is just not signaling a start. Like some condition isn’t met

124K

Starter relay?

 

[DrGERTol]

The starter solenoid appears to be energized by Terminal 50 Power Supply Relay J682, which gets its actuation signal from BCM/J519 T52b/29 and/or ECU/J623 T94/45 (both red/black wires). Relay J682 is in position 2:

CLV97-10764

• DrGERTol
• Dec 28, 2022

VAG CLV97-10764.

HTH --g

 

[bowelder]

So the terminal number, can it be easily seen?

 

[DrGERTol]

Hmm, I don't know the theory of operation here: does BCM/J519 energize relay J682 and ECU/J623 detects the signal or vice versa ?
Still, you should expect to see +12 V at terminal 86 of relay J682 (T9b/4, red/white wire) when the key is in start/crank position. If not, you're back to looking for some start condition not being met. --g

 

[bowelder]

Hmm, I don't know the theory of operation here: does BCM/J519 energize relay J682 and ECU/J623 detects the signal or vice versa ?
Still, you should expect to see +12 V at terminal 86 of relay J682 (T9b/4, red/white wire) when the key is in start/crank position. If not, you're back to looking for some start condition not being met. --g

does it make any difference if it’s push button start?

 

[DrGERTol]

I don't see why it should: the Start/Stop switch sends a signal to the steering wheel control module, which, in turn signals the BCM or ECU to energize relay J682 when start conditions are met, though I don't have access to the full wiring diagrams for the keyless KESSY config at the moment to comment definitively. --g

 

[DrGERTol]

@bowelder -- With KESSY, the start button E378 connects to Electronic steering column lock control module J764, which actuates relay J682 directly, likely with control inputs from the BCM J519. --g

 

[bowelder]

@bowelder -- With KESSY, the start button E378 connects to Electronic steering column lock control module J764, which actuates relay J682 directly, likely with control inputs from the BCM J519. --g

I didnt mention that my car has the tech package. Not sure if that makes a big difference.

 

[DrGERTol]

I didnt mention that my car has the tech package. Not sure if that makes a big difference.

I don't know what all is optioned in the "Tech" package -- RNS-315 and KESSY ? --g

 

[bowelder]

I don't know what all is optioned in the "Tech" package -- RNS-315 and KESSY ? --g

Sport mode, Push button start, Navigation,LED lights, paddle shifters, not sure what else


I really just need to know which relay is the starter relay.

Hard to find any good info online

 

[super1]

Sport mode, Push button start, Navigation,LED lights, paddle shifters, not sure what else


I really just need to know which relay is the starter relay.

Hard to find any good info online

This any help?

Fuse box diagram Volkswagen Jetta 6 relay with assignment and location

Complete information about electrical equipment Volkswagen Jetta 6. Purpose of fuses and relays. Box diagrams. Cigarette lighter fuse.

fuseandrelay.com

 

[super1]

This any help?

Fuse box diagram Volkswagen Jetta 6 relay with assignment and location

Complete information about electrical equipment Volkswagen Jetta 6. Purpose of fuses and relays. Box diagrams. Cigarette lighter fuse.

fuseandrelay.com

R2 on the 12 relay carrier panel

 

[DrGERTol]

...
I really just need to know which relay is the starter relay.
...

Post 19 from Monday shows relay J682 in position 2. --g