98 jetta A3 with a ALH engine

[edjet]

I encountered a 98 Jetta Tdi today with that has a 2000 engine installed. The car will start, idle good, but doesn't seem to devope power, low end and up thru rpm. It runs like the turbo has no boost. I am not familiar with installing a ALH engine in the 98 jetta Tdi.

Has any one completed this type of upgrade, or engine swap?

The installer put the AHU IP on the car, and the 98 intake and exhaust manifolds. The car did not run properly, so the present owner took the car to the VW Dealership. They installed a new IP, water pump (water pump pully split), and the car still does not develop power.

The intake looks like it could use a cleaning, but I don't think it is restricting airflow to a point of congestion yet (this will be one of the first lines of attack if I work on the car again). The IP wiring has been reworked, I think to accomadate the new IP on the AHU wiring harness.

I am not sure if I want to open Pandoras Box, so if someone has the blueprints for doing this swap, I would be interested in talking to you.

One CEL, 0380, manifold temp sensor circuit. I do not know if the ECU was swapped, or if it could be. I think there is a different connector on the A3 and A4 year car.

All vacuum hoses, connecter, water hoses look to be routed a compatable destination.

 

[paramedick]

Did they change the N75 valve? In the A3 generation, the N75 controls boost pressure to operate the wastegate actuator. In the ALH car, vacuum is required to operate the VNT15.

Disregard if they installed the stock turbo for an A3.

 

[edjet]

n75

Yes, the stock turbo is on the car. From looking at the car and the receipts, I do not believe the N75 valve was changed. I also am not sure how the routing of vacuum lines are accomplished for a ALH engine in a AHU car... or all the wiring for the IP. HHMMM

hence, Pandora's Box.


I will enquire with the owner. Thanks, ED

 

[rdkern]

Which stock turbo? The A3 or A4?

 

[oldiesel]

used the 98 manifolds,must be the ahu turbo

 

[edjet]

Thanks oldiesel, the stock A3 turbo. It does spool, but has a lot of mileage on it. The car has little torque when accelerating, before 1800rpm and after. I don't know if it is operating in limp mode? I just got my vag-com Tuesday, so I am going to see if I can check out the car with vag-com. I need to practice on something, right.

 

[paramedick]

One thought. Did they plumb the lines from the N75 to the turbo properly? Easy to switch the red and blue vacuum lines to the turbo. If you do so, you will not have proper boost.

 

[rdkern]

OK those who know, when you strip off the turbos, what are the real differences between these two engines? With the AHU's (and 1z's) becoming somewhat more difficult to find, this starts looking like a reasonable substitute. That is, unless the work involved is sufficient to make it unreasonable.

 

[edjet]

Para, I will check the vacuum lines, good idea.

RD, Check with Bleachedbora on the turbo differences. He handles those if neede.

 

[edjet]

I finally towed this project to my garage. The engine is making a lot of racket from the TB tensioner area. After some extensive inspection, redoing the timing belt, timing, resecuring intake ductwork, securing clamps properly, clearing all fault codes, I have this project car starting and running pretty good, just not developing boost.

What I know:
-ALH engine/ALH IP installed in a 98 Jetta Tdi
-Exhaust/turgo and Intake is all from the AHU engine
-Waterpump pulley split, pump replaced. Green coolant insalled.
-The timing belt slipped, head was pulled, inspected, valve seals replaced, checked and installed with a 3 hole gasket by a local shop of the owner(easier than measuring and installing the right one).
-Timing belt was routed wrong over the lower 1" idler
-Compression is 450psi or greater on all cylinders.
-Snow screen cleaned, air filter is serviceable, all intake clear and connected properly.
-Timing belt removed, reset all timing marks per manual, and reinstalled
-Timing is set at the upper end of the graph
-Very little or no smoke on accelleration
-Cam was not aligned correctly (previous mark and pray install)
(new belt/tensioner after I can get this to work right).
-All vacuum and pressure lines replaced and routed correctly
-ECU has a remanufactured sticker on it. Internal sense line looks good, but......
-No vacuum resivour installed (brakes work good)
-All Codes are cleared and not recurring

-Turbo inlet looks good, no unusual wear for a 200K plus car. It will spin with slight resistance. ( I have not pulled exhaust off to inspect the turbine side yet--this week sometime.
-Straight exhaust pipe after the flex joint, about 3 1/2 to 4' long(noisy)
-Wastgate check, very little or no movement at 4000rpm and the N75 disconnected
-Wastegate inspected, moves freely, and with 10psi or less shop air applied will move wastegate lever.

All N75/turbo vacuum/pressure hoses are in great shape and routed properly. I inspected and found the 3" hose in the ECU to be in good shape. I am going to replace it anyways along with the sense line to the intake (a section of it was replaced and spliced in).

I checked Pressure from the turbo compressor sense line to the N75 solenoid to be about 3psi at 3000rpm and the pressure gauge needle was eratic. I did the same test on my 99MKIII and I had 4psi and the pressure gauge needle was very steady.


What I don't know:

Can anyone tell me how the ECU would affect the operation of fuel delivery to this engine/IP (ALH) if it is the origianal ECU, designed for an AHU engine?

Would an ECU from a A4 work in the MKIII? I can swap my A4's ECU to check.



Other than that, I am looking for help. I do not know if this engine installation ever worked. I can not get ahold of the guy that installed it.

Thanks, Ed.

 

[edjet]

anybody?

 

[edjet]

I will see what I can do. I am learning how to use the VAG-COM. Not sure how to do the logging.. Thanks, Ed.

 

[P2B]

VAG-COM logging instructions are here

I would think you'd have to use an AHU ECU since it knows how to operate the pressure-controlled wastegated MK3 turbo. I know an ALH IP can be converted to fit an AHU motor so I think they are both the same to the ECU.

Simon

 

[edjet]

Double thanks P2B

 

[edjet]

I have been going through the intake manifold cleaning, checking turbo, and changing the ECU sense line. I have one more part coming Tuesday, I will finish installing the intake down pipe to the turbo, and I will try to log a map. With the turbo still installed, intake and exhaust removed, it looks okay, but I am not going to rule it out. It could be worn out enough to not spool up like it should. It doesn't show any signs of excessive play, but I didn't put a dial indicator to check actual wear limits. (yet)

Ed.

 

[mijbo11]

did you check the waste gate valve assy inside the turbo ive seen them come apart and exhaust takes path of least resistance around the turbine.

 

[edjet]

I went ahead and removed the turbocharger. I disassembled the compressor housing and waste gate actuator. Everything is in good shape. There is very little to no play in the shaft axially or radially. The wastegate is intack and functions smoothly. With about 5 to 6 psi the wastegate will start to move. The valve seats nicely and is not damaged.

I installed the turbocharger and ran the car today. It runs better than it has, but still low power until the rpm's pick up. I put a pressure gauge on the inlet just before the intake manifold and I am reaching 10 psi boost. I am now leaning toward a fuel delivery or ECU problem. I was able to map a log of the, I will forward as soon as I can figure out how to attach it. I have it stored in Excel.

 

[edjet]

Here is Test 011 under Engine Electronics 01, Function 08 "read measuring value block" from Vag-Com 704.


http://pics.tdiclub.com/data/500/98TDITESTLOG.xls

 

[edjet]

Here is a basic setting log.

http://pics.tdiclub.com/data/500/HeCoxTdi_1_.xls

 

[P2B]

Here is Test 011 under Engine Electronics 01, Function 08 "read measuring value block" from Vag-Com 704.


http://pics.tdiclub.com/data/500/98TDITESTLOG.xls

Was that log taken during a wide open throttle run?

If so, the turbo is definitely taking a loooong time to spool up. but I'm not sure what would cause that.

Simon

 

[jsrmonster]

Hi,
Car is running hot 220degF. Something is not happy. Are you sure cam-to-crank timing is correct? Timing mark could be scribed wrong on flywheel. Put flywheel at tdc and see if #1 is at TDC with small plastic straw thru glowplug hole. Don't drop straw in cylinder - doh! A long thing wooden dowel works too.
Jeff

 

[edjet]

Jeff, thanks for looking in on this. I tried to PM you on when I put the log on line, but your email is full. You are one popular guy. I did use the flywheel mark, cam lock plate, and IP pin, and I did not probe or check the #1 cylinder to make sure it was all the way up. When I started the car, it started right up with timing advanced just off the graph.


You see the history here where the TB slipped. I did find the cam out of correct time compared to the crank and IP when I got the car.


I am ready to pull the head and start from ground zero if I can't figure this out. I will check the crank marking and cylinder position and cam position.

 

[edjet]

Jeff, piston timing TDC, CAM, IP, and flywheel mark all coincide. I have to check if cooling fans are coming on. I adjusted timing into upper half of the graph after the readings were taken. I made some various logs runs and functions today. I will include these soon.

 

[Ray_G]

If you are not getting enough boost and everything else is checking out OK you are most likely not fueling enough. Have you tried a known good set of injectors? Bad nozzles will cause low power, which will give you low boost and generally poor performance. If you have a car that is running good you might swap injectors and see if that solves your problem.

 

[edjet]

I pulled one injector today. #4, to get the part no. 028 130 202J. This part no. coincides with an automatic tdi. (the car is a 5 spd). I need to see which fuel pump is installed. I will get a no. off of it tonight when I get home from work.

Could this play a role in the problem?

Jeff, I will also check to see if the cooling fans are working. That might explain a hotter running motor.

 

[edjet]

Was that log taken during a wide open throttle run?

If so, the turbo is definitely taking a loooong time to spool up. but I'm not sure what would cause that.

Simon

Yes, wide open for several 1500 rpm to 3000 rpm runs in 3rd gear.

 

[edjet]

If you are not getting enough boost and everything else is checking out OK you are most likely not fueling enough. Have you tried a known good set of injectors? Bad nozzles will cause low power, which will give you low boost and generally poor performance. If you have a car that is running good you might swap injectors and see if that solves your problem.

I just bought new (60k used ) injectors from majestsrj. I can try them when they come.

thanks, Ed.

 

[edjet]

For your viewing pleasure, let me know if these logs tell any more of the story. What do I do if the car is in "limp mode"?
http://pics.tdiclub.com/data/500/LOG-01-005-009-021.xls
http://pics.tdiclub.com/data/500/LOG-01-003-008-011.xls
http://pics.tdiclub.com/data/500/LOG-01-006-010-022.xls

 

[edjet]

hoses

Andy, I went through and removed, cleaned, and carefully reinstalled the complete intake system from the airbox snow screen to the cylinder head. I double checked all of the boot clamps for proper security. I quadruple checked the routing of turbo sense lines and they all have been replaced prior to getting the car, and they look great. I replaced the ECU sense line from the intake to the ECU due to a splice replacement done prior to getting the car, and I opened the ecu and inspected the 3" hose, it looked like someone changed it out. It is a reman ECU, there is a label over the case halves that was split.

I can put my sons ECU in this weekend and see if it helps.

?

Thanks, Ed

 

[chrisfiat]

check the number of wires in the ip bundel one pump has a ten wire connection the other has a 8 wire connection, so if you have a ten wire pump and an 8 wire car you got problems