97 Jetta TDI AHU Problems, Help Needed.

DDLTexan

Active member
Joined
Aug 13, 2006
Location
Keene, TX
TDI
1997 & 1998 Jetta TDIs & 2000 Passat Wagon
Hi, broke a timing belt. Put on a new head and replaced belts, gaskets and everything and it started right up and ran nice but was smoking from an oil leak. Found out the new head did not have a round cam gasket seal and it leaked oil out that location and onto the exhaust. Fixed that with a new seal and had everything timed and ready to restart. Here is where the problem happened. I forgot to remove the injector pump stud that locks the injector pump at top dead center. I turned the key and engine clicked about 3 to 4 times and I immediately turned off the key. I felt sick when I saw that locking stud. The injector pump had not moved. The cam had not moved but the engine had moved about half a turn forward. I removed the gear wheel from the cam and turned the engine back till it was at top dead center with timing on the fly wheel and with the cam in perfect placement and injector pump locked. Put back the gear and tightened everything up and tensioners adjusted and everything perfect. Took out the injector lock stud and with everything done, went to turn on the engine. It turned over perfectly with the starter but will not fire and start - not even try. Everything just turns and turns and turns and no firing up and starting.

I feel sick and soooooo sad. Any one know anything that could be wrong that I have overlooked??? Any suggestions??? It was running so nice except for that oil leak that I then fixed and now nothing.

Please help. :confused:
 

schultp

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2008
Location
Michigan
TDI
2010 Jetta Sportwagen, 6sp manual
Make sure you have the IP primed with fuel. Crack open the fuel lines at the injectors and place clean rags around base of nozzles then crank the starter. You should have a small amount of diesel fuel soaking each rag. If not, you will need to prime the pump.
 

DDLTexan

Active member
Joined
Aug 13, 2006
Location
Keene, TX
TDI
1997 & 1998 Jetta TDIs & 2000 Passat Wagon
Thanks for the reply. It was running just about 45 minutes before. I had the timing cover off to find the oil leak and discovered no seal on the end of the new cam and head. I then took care of this and then I made the mistake with the locking stud. There are no bubbles in the line and it is primed.

I think it must be something else. Please any suggestions greatly appreciated ? ? ?
 

KLXD

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 22, 2009
Location
Lompoc, CA
TDI
'98, '2 Jettas
Sorry to say that since it was running and all you did was r&r the cam it should still be primed so I don't think that's your problem. Sounds to me like you damaged some valves or followers.

Pull the valve cover and check the follwers for cracks. Might have to remove the cam again to see clearly.

Two things contributed to your problem:

1) On an AHU you must remove the IP pin before tensioning the belt.

2) You didn't turn the engine over by hand a few times and recheck everything.
 

DDLTexan

Active member
Joined
Aug 13, 2006
Location
Keene, TX
TDI
1997 & 1998 Jetta TDIs & 2000 Passat Wagon
Thanks for all the replies.

For the second time around, when I removed the pin, I tensioned the belt after removing the pin. I then turned the engine over three times by hand to make sure everything looked OK and that the timing all stayed exact. It was then that I put the valve cover on and then turned the key and it turned and turned and turned but did not start.

Any other suggestions would be greatly appreciated???
 

SmokeFree

Vendor
Joined
Jan 11, 2010
Location
Easton, PA
TDI
2011 Golf TDI, 2008 Audi A3 2.0T, 2010 Mercedes Sprinter 3500
You heard the engine click a few times. In my Internet opinion it sounds like the pistons moved, the cam you said did not. You might have bent more valves... Wait, after reading, is that even possible?
 

DDLTexan

Active member
Joined
Aug 13, 2006
Location
Keene, TX
TDI
1997 & 1998 Jetta TDIs & 2000 Passat Wagon
Hmmmm that is possible and I thought that, but it is not correct. Because the complete new bolt on head with cam and everything did NOT have a cam round seal, it leaked oil out onto the belt. The belt had alittle oil on it. I have rotated it several times and NO lost teeth and thus no flat spot. The oil caused the belt to be a tiny bit slick and with the locked IP with stud and the cam not moving the only thing that moved and slipped in the belt (because of the oil - if no oil on the belt then it would have torn off the belt teeth) was the bottom crank gear. I think the engine only turned forward about half a turn. I took off the cam gear and loosened the belt off the IP and then slowly turned the engine back to TDC and then put the belt back on and gears and tightened, pulled the locking stud, and adjusted the tensioner and triple checked the timing. I got in and watched everything turning and no unusual sounds but no engine firing up. It is just spinning and spinning and no starting. Depending on how far the engine turned with that starter - meaning how high the two middle pistons went up is the question. The two outside pistons are at the top for TDC. If the two middle pistons went all the way to the top, then yes, they could have hit the valves - if they went up half way then no. I will do more investigating tomorrow and see if I can find some more answers.
I was hoping that someone else may have had this happen to them and could share their results. But sadly I have not heard from anyone else that this has happened too.

Sadly still trying to solve this.

Please if anyone knows anything about this I would greatly appreciate any shared wisdom.
 

KLXD

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 22, 2009
Location
Lompoc, CA
TDI
'98, '2 Jettas
It is unfortunate you didn't try pulling the pin and turning the engine to see if anything was hitting before fixing retiming it.
 

cork

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 23, 2009
Location
central ky
TDI
98 jetta
May be worth a try to unhook the battery for a couple minutes to clear any possible electrical malfunctions that developed a memory. Hook the battery back then see what happens.
 

rdkern

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 21, 2004
Location
Humboldt Co CA
TDI
Passat 1997 silver (sold after 11 years), Jetta 2000 atlantic blue
The teeth on the crank should turn when the crank does. If they don't, then the belt is not tight at all. Assuming the crank did turn, then the cam is turning as well, right? Did the cam turn? If so, the valves should be OK. If not, perhaps it's time to take a look at the valves/lifters.

I can't see how oil on the belt could allow the crank to turn, and the ip not to without breaking something in that system. Teeth, belt itself, tensioner, something.

Since the belt goes over such a large section of the crank, and the crank is moved by the starter, and you didn't lose any teeth, I'd guess that "the engine clicked 3-4 times" means that you've got some issue with the starter motor / gears that didn't like trying to turn over an engine that didn't want to turn over.

Is this guess as to "the engine clicked 3-4 times" meet what you recall hearing? IF not, please give a more detailed description about the "clicking" you initially heard.
 

DDLTexan

Active member
Joined
Aug 13, 2006
Location
Keene, TX
TDI
1997 & 1998 Jetta TDIs & 2000 Passat Wagon
The clicking sound that I heard was the crank slipping against the teeth of the belt. It should have torn it up except for the fact that it was wet with oil from the complete head that did NOT have a cam seal on it.

Yeah!! It is running. I took the cam off and checked all the lifters and valves and they moved freely. Retimed everything and finally tonight, it fired up and is running nicely.

On one of the guides for replacing belts, a person said to use a screwdriver to move the flywheel teeth so that the mark could be spot on and you could pop the crank to a new spot on the teeth. That is odd, but because of the oil on the belt, the crank gear moved and slipped against several teeth making it off timing and thus my problem. Even though the guide gave this as an option, I did not do this when I retimed everything. I did not make it slip any teeth on the belt in retiming.

Honestly, I don't know exactly why it is now working fine. I undid the battery several times and retimed it several times and it would not restart. I also took off the lines from the IP to the engine and had someone turn over the engine a few times to see if it was pumping correctly and it was. It was only after using a wooden handle to make sure that all the valves and lifters moved easily up and down and then retiming for a 4th time and all back together and then it started right up. Idled nicely and revs up nicely. Don't exactly have the solution or an answer, but amazingly it is now working nicely. Maybe it was prayer that did it, I honestly don't know. But I am very grateful and happy it is working.

Thanks to one and all for your suggestions. It is nice to know that you are not alone and that others are willing to share ideas and suggestions. This is a wonderful forum and thank you for helping!!!!
 
Last edited:

TonyJetta

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Sep 15, 2005
Location
Tucson, Az
TDI
'15 Jetta TDI SE / '06 Jetta TDI DSG Pkg0 / '96 Passat TDI
As a precaution, I would still replace the belt. I am concerned that one or more teeth on the belt is at risk of shearing and losing time.

Given this is an AHU, the timing belt can be had relatively cheap.

HTH

Tony
 
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