97 B4v Glx Tdi

Lug_Nut

TDIClub Enthusiast, Pre-Forum Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 20, 1998
Location
Sterling, Massachusetts. USA
TDI
idi: 1988 Bolens DGT1700H
Heavens, Help us!
As much as I'd still like to obtain an automatic B4V TDI, it just ain't gonna happen this time either.
I have a manual white 97 B4V GLX on deposit. 135k miles, one owner, receipts since new, beige leather, MFA, traction control, ABS, sunroof :(, CD changer, new struts/shocks, tires, brakes, and both the mandatory broken flip down cupholder and the cracked fog lamp lenses.
Let the fun and games begin.
 

sassyrel

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 22, 2003
Location
aplington,iowa
TDI
passat,96,black-metalic
sic em lug--this has crossed my mind many a time--get a good gasser--bad engine--and get a tdi--and switch--fuel prices keep even the crashed tdis up,though
 

jollyGreenGiant

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2003
Location
MA
TDI
03 Golf TDI GLS ( my 5th TDI ), 03 Eurovan GLS - VR6 :(
I think you'll be very happy with this decision in the long run...
 

Lug_Nut

TDIClub Enthusiast, Pre-Forum Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 20, 1998
Location
Sterling, Massachusetts. USA
TDI
idi: 1988 Bolens DGT1700H
It's home. Looks like a four wheel refrigerator in my drive.
Why in the world would anyone want a VR6? Gutless off idle, no real (meaning equivalent) power until 2000 rpm+, annoyingly droning engine noise (2500 rpm at 60 mph). Yech!
And even driven conservatively, only 28.2 mpg on the MFA.
 

tditom

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Sep 5, 2001
Location
san antonio & austin
TDI
formerly: 2001 Golf GL, '97 Passat (RIP) '98 NB, '05 B5 sedan
congrats on your next step to getting a tdi on the road again! Is your last vehicle going to be the donor car? Please keep us posted on your progress.
 

jollyGreenGiant

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2003
Location
MA
TDI
03 Golf TDI GLS ( my 5th TDI ), 03 Eurovan GLS - VR6 :(
The VR6 does put down some great power above 3500 though... I hear you, the TDI is a much better engine, but I can't stand by and let you say the VR6 is an anchor entirely. I love that VR6 growl under load too...

Did you get the 11.3" brakes up front? Let me know if you need a hand with the conversion.
 

Nate_Grauvogel

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2005
Location
CO
TDI
'15 T-Reg Exec
Lug_Nut said:
Why in the world would anyone want a VR6? Gutless off idle, no real (meaning equivalent) power until 2000 rpm+, annoyingly droning engine noise (2500 rpm at 60 mph). Yech!
And even driven conservatively, only 28.2 mpg on the MFA.
[Don Nomex] ;)

I haven't driven a modded TDI or VR6, but comparing stock power levels, the VR6 is a relative rocket... that's why. And yes, most small gassers "come on" in the higher revs.

Each requires a completely different driving style. Switching back and forth is no fun... which is why I want to do the TDI shuffle, too...
 
Joined
Apr 27, 2003
Location
Stafford Virginia 22556
TDI
96 glx variant tdi
Once I get my donor car up here, I'll start my last vr6/tdi swap of the warm season. Should start it in 2-3 weeks hopefully. Let me know if you (and you will, believe me) run into the square hole/round peg problems.
 

Lug_Nut

TDIClub Enthusiast, Pre-Forum Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 20, 1998
Location
Sterling, Massachusetts. USA
TDI
idi: 1988 Bolens DGT1700H
Nate_Grauvogel said:
I haven't driven a modded TDI or VR6, but comparing stock power levels, the VR6 is a relative rocket... that's why. And yes, most small gassers "come on" in the higher revs. Each requires a completely different driving style. Switching back and forth is no fun... which is why I want to do the TDI shuffle, too...
protective Nomex: not required
I'm fully aware of the general (comparative) lethargy of response at low engine speeds with gasoline, but I somehow expected roughly equivalent torque from the 2.7 to the 1.9 at the lower end of the rpm spectrum, not some sub-liter crotch rocket sport bike response.
This weekend's weather looks promising. I'll continue ripping into the TDI to get the requisite transplant parts.
 

btcost

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2002
Location
Boston, MA
TDI
'12 JSW, '00 Jetta (totaled 12/23/10), 1987 M-B 300D
Jon:

While never hanving attempted a conversion myself, from what I read it looks like you will want to keep the crashed hulk of the TDI around until the new car is DONE.

Best of luck will all work. if you would like a hand give me a PM.. . I'm not far. and have a soft spot for TDI's.

Brian
 

Lug_Nut

TDIClub Enthusiast, Pre-Forum Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 20, 1998
Location
Sterling, Massachusetts. USA
TDI
idi: 1988 Bolens DGT1700H
I'll be resuming work about 8am on Saturday until darkness, and again on Sunday. Anyone wishing to point and laugh, kibbitz, offer "I wouldn't do it like that" comments and otherwise offer aid and moral support as I struggle with this endeavor is welcome to come when you wish, leave when you must.
Address to insert in your mapping software of choice:
163 Justice Hill Cutoff
Sterling, MA 01564
 

meganuke

TDIClub Contributor, Vendor
Joined
Mar 6, 2003
Location
VA/CT
TDI
2010 Ford Fusion Hybrid
Did I read that correctly? You, one of the mileage gurus, wants an AUTOMATIC?

Room...spinning...everything blurry...*thud*
 

Lug_Nut

TDIClub Enthusiast, Pre-Forum Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 20, 1998
Location
Sterling, Massachusetts. USA
TDI
idi: 1988 Bolens DGT1700H
meganuke said:
Did I read that correctly? You, one of the mileage gurus, wants an AUTOMATIC?
actually, I want an automatic B4V TDI. Yes, I prefer an automatic over a manual shift. However, I prefer a B4 TDI manual wagon over a B5.5 TDI automatic wagon.
Now a B6 TDI automatic wagon......
 
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jollyGreenGiant

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2003
Location
MA
TDI
03 Golf TDI GLS ( my 5th TDI ), 03 Eurovan GLS - VR6 :(
I've heard that you can swap in the later 01M trans in place of the 096 transmision that is stock in these cars. The 01M is a better transmission and eliminates much of the issues people have had in the B4's. I might have got the code naming wrong cause I'm only going off memory and that's not the best thing sometimes... I remember someone selling a real nice B4V GLX that had the newer transmission and he was still ironing out some of the swap issues, you do need a new TCM and transmission, not sure if a harness is needed.

The thing is once everything's in and working you're definately not want to go back and pull the damn transmission out again, damn A3/B4 transmissions are a real pain in the arse, especially the auto's. An R&R on those only paid 2.75 hours under warranty, can you believe that? I think I made the time once on one and that didn't really include the prep time and cleanup time either.
 

Lug_Nut

TDIClub Enthusiast, Pre-Forum Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 20, 1998
Location
Sterling, Massachusetts. USA
TDI
idi: 1988 Bolens DGT1700H
I checked into the auto trans possibility pretty thoroughly. I even had a few B4 GLX automatics lined up for consideration. The big problem was in the TDI torque production and the gasoline 096 or 01M torque converter responses. To do it properly would have required a 1Z torque converter, a Transmission Control Module from an automatic 1Z, an 01M transmission, a TDI engine, an automatic four cylinder bell housing, and then the automatic GLX Passat on which to base the whole thing. Too much time and effort. The manual TDI into manual GLX itself will be enough of a challenge for my first time.
I was also watching a 1Z B4V automatic on the german e-bay, and had preliminary shipping information lined up, but the shipping fee and the US duties and 150% bond would have placed the total cost at about three times the 3600 Euro sell price. I don't desire an auto B4 that badly either.
 

Lug_Nut

TDIClub Enthusiast, Pre-Forum Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 20, 1998
Location
Sterling, Massachusetts. USA
TDI
idi: 1988 Bolens DGT1700H
A good day's work was completed today. Many thanks to IndigoBlueWagon for his aid and support, and for supplying a set of triple-squares for those pesky inner c/v joints and other 12 point fasteners. The TDI engine is out and hung on the cherry picker. I have to get some different bolts to allow mounting it onto the engine stand.
The underhood harnesses are are unplugged from the relay/fuse block, out of the car and are presently stored in my garage. The accelerator pedal and potentiometer are also removed and in storage.
I have yet to remove the fuel filter and EGR duty solenoid. I have also yet to remove the fuel tank, my trailer hitch, and a few other assorted bits. I should be done with the red one in just a few more days and then it's outtahere.
I'll again be starting work about 8 am on Sunday the 15th, so come by if you're nearby.
Address is in post #11
 

Lug_Nut

TDIClub Enthusiast, Pre-Forum Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 20, 1998
Location
Sterling, Massachusetts. USA
TDI
idi: 1988 Bolens DGT1700H
A late start this morning. I managed to get the hitch off, removed the fuel filter / EGR solenoid and also dropped the fuel tank. I think I see how to vent even more air out of the tank even without tipping the car up on two wheels. These B4 wagons have maybe a 32 gallon capacity tank?
I also went back through the Bentley and discovered that the A/C cutoff at W.O.T. is different between the VR6 and TDI. I pulled the dash and most of the air ducting to get the wiring I'll need for the swap.
Jetter and Sprinta showed up. They helped me swap the rear wiper units between the wagons. The new car's washer wasn't rotating with the arm. They took away the seats and their items which had been shipped to me in a combined order.
I still have to mount the TDI motor on a proper stand (thus freeing the crane for the VR6 removal) and some final checking of the parts on hand to be sure I have replacements for the damaged ones. I need to remove the broken downpipe flange from the turbo to prepare for the replacement cat I received in the parts shipment. I also need to remove the damaged starter to install the replacement one.
The deconstruction is going well. I hope I can maintain this pace through the VR6 phase.
 

TDI Jim

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 10, 2006
Location
Gaithersburg, Maryland
TDI
1996 Passat, 1996 Passat Variant (RIP), 2002 Jetta Wagon, 1995 Passat Variant TDI conversion brought back from the dead, 1997 Passat Variant project, and returned 2014 Passat
Wow, Jon you are working like a man possessed! Hope it continues to progress well for you!
 
Joined
Apr 27, 2003
Location
Stafford Virginia 22556
TDI
96 glx variant tdi
If you just unbolt gadgets like the n75 valve and the relay next to it, you can leave all the electrical wires and vacuum lines connected to them. Saves you from having to remember where they go. Every single attaching point is present on the glx chassis, i.e. fuel filter, n75 valve, etc. etc, usually just covered by a little plastic protector. Ditto for the intercooler pipes where they go through the left sideframe rail (next to it actually). Just clean off the sealant and you'll find the knock out plug there. I dont understand why you are going to need the glx duct work. You are going to keep the glx a/c heater box, the only thing you need to change is the wiring going to the blower motor control resistor. Eventually, I just cut mine and spliced it together afterwards. It saved a ton of time disassembling the dash which is necessary to get to the idiotic harness retaining clips that are just unreachable way up on the top of the underside of the dash. You are going to need to swap the fuel sending gauges in the tank, you can use the same tank though. I just ran some hoses bypassing the filter under the car. The fuel level sending unit harness is also cut and spliced, otherwise you have to rip the whole interior apart.
 

Lug_Nut

TDIClub Enthusiast, Pre-Forum Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 20, 1998
Location
Sterling, Massachusetts. USA
TDI
idi: 1988 Bolens DGT1700H
quacks like a duct!

Each item disconnected received two labeled 'zip' ties, one attached to the socket in the harness identifying to what it was connected, the other to the plug of the item identifying where in the vehicle it was located.
The wiring for the TDI's "WOT" a/c cutout runs to a relay in the center console. Since the GLX has a cable operated throttle and a mechanical switch for WOT, I presumed I'd need an ECU triggered equivalent to operate with the TDI's throttle-by-wire. It was this section of supplemental harness that prompted pulling the TDI's air boxes. I'll not run the wires in the same location if they are needed for the GLX, I'll leave them in front of the ducts, not embedded within the layers of ducts.
The tank will be transferred from the TDI to the VR6. That VR6 in tank pump puts out 4 bar or 60 psi, far higher than desired for the feed to the injector pump. The in tank pump also consumes valuable volume better served by driving range increase capacity. I'll select a male four pin plug from the leftovers of the TDI to create an adapter from the four pin female GLX sender and pump wiring socket to the two pin TDI sender only plug. I may install a free-flow bypass inline pump in place of (or maybe in addition to) the under car filter.
 

Lug_Nut

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Jun 20, 1998
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Sterling, Massachusetts. USA
TDI
idi: 1988 Bolens DGT1700H
On haitus this weekend. I'm working on site in Louisville until next Wednesday. I've been told I can have next Thurs and Fri off for working this Sat and Sun. Salary vs. hourly does have some benefit. Hope for nice weather those 4 days.
 
Joined
Apr 27, 2003
Location
Stafford Virginia 22556
TDI
96 glx variant tdi
I think you're working too hard on this. Just unbolt from one, bolt it in the other. I think the only harness under the hood that doesnt get changed is for the lights. The other two or three harnesses don't match up correctly. Don't forget to swap the high pressure p/s hose before you put the tdi motor into the glx chassis. Also one of the a/c lines is bent wrong also. So remember to evacuate the a/c system before it's too late.
 
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RC

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 13, 2000
Location
Maryland`s Eastern Shore
TDI
Two White 96 B4 Wagons
Sure wish I lived closer to you Jonathan, I'd love to witness this and learn something. I'm impressed you've finally decided to tackle this, and sure to be jealous once it`s completed.
 

Lug_Nut

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Joined
Jun 20, 1998
Location
Sterling, Massachusetts. USA
TDI
idi: 1988 Bolens DGT1700H
I worked on the other projects that accumulated in my absense. Those little quickies that can be finished between arriving home and dinner during the week piled up and consumed most of Thursday.
Today I cleared the shed of some accumulation, moved the tractor and implements from under the deck to the shed, moved the Sonett from the garage to under the deck. That made the garage clear for engine accident repair work. I replaced the shattered motor mount arms, replaced the shattered starter, removed the broken downpipe, and hammered the transmission end cover back into a shape that doesn't interfere with the 5th gear synchronizer.
Next step is to get the GLX into the garage and start tearing into it. Sunday perhaps, I have a play-date in CT on Sat.
 

Lug_Nut

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Jun 20, 1998
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Sterling, Massachusetts. USA
TDI
idi: 1988 Bolens DGT1700H
A big, A HUGE, thanks to Sprinta for keeping me motivated today. He stepped up when I was nearing the end of my enthusiasm and was considering halting for the day. The result is that the lump of a V6 is out of the recipient. We drove the gasser one last time this morning, trying to decide if the strength of the torque pull at 4k to 6k rpm is equal to the TDI from 2 to 3k. The car was pulled in the garage at about 10 am. By 4 pm the engine and transmission was out.
I have the air filter box, the exhaust, the wiring harnesses and the VR motor mounts to remove before beginning to refill the engine bay with the appropriate TDI bits. That work can proceed inside in the evenings during this upcoming week.
 
Joined
Apr 27, 2003
Location
Stafford Virginia 22556
TDI
96 glx variant tdi
I thought about putting a diesel fuel filter in place of the gas filter under the rear axle beam. I decided against it because I think water would collect there and freeze instead of getting trapped in the diesel filter in the engine bay. I just ran some diesel fuel line and bypassed that gas filter.
 

moondawg

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Joined
Oct 25, 2003
Location
Columbus, IN
TDI
2001 Galactic Blue Jetta
Lug_Nut said:
On haitus this weekend. I'm working on site in Louisville until next Wednesday. I've been told I can have next Thurs and Fri off for working this Sat and Sun. Salary vs. hourly does have some benefit. Hope for nice weather those 4 days.
CRAP. I wish I had been following closer. We could've joined up for some dinner or something!

good luck on the rest of the conversion.

moondawg
 

Lug_Nut

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Joined
Jun 20, 1998
Location
Sterling, Massachusetts. USA
TDI
idi: 1988 Bolens DGT1700H
I have to return there on Monday. This weekend I have to find another temporary storage location for the VR. Mrs. wants the utility cart back. Then I have to pull the pedal clusters. The VR has a damaged, and poorly repaired clutch pedal and no mounting location for the TDI DBW potentiometer.
I found all kinds of interesting stuff under the VR's hood, things like an evaporative emissions cannister and a vacuum pump for the cruise control. I also discovered that the knock-out hole for the intercooler isn't. I need to clean more dirt from that area to discover how to remove the sheetmetal from that location. I had expected just a rubber plug over a common hole.
 

codeblue

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 5, 2003
Location
Kitchener, Ontario, Canada
TDI
98 Vento GLX TDI
That's surprising. On my VR, there was a spot already predrilled and ready for an intercooler. There was an auxiliary coolant radiator and an electric fan mounted in it's position. It used the same bracket that our TDI intercooler uses.
 
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