70 MPG/1100/1200 Mile Club

[Fix_Until_Broke]

I'm in the club, but still trying to catch these guys with 1200+ on a tank. Hopefully I get my car back on the road this week with new (to me) 6sp from ryanp.

It takes a little luck and a lot of bravery to look at the LFL for ~125+ miles (mine came on at 1094.9 miles so I drove for 132 miles with it on )

You can do it - just close your eyes and let off the throttle

 

[Turbospool]

Turbospool - Congratulations!! That's great work (and a lot of it)

Thanks for the encouragement.... You are right about the work part. Now if I cando this back to back i'll be convinced my car has made a significant change since I've been trying for awhile.

 

[Frankencar]

Bringing this thread back...

I filled up the GTI last night after driving it rather carefully for most of this 1002.6 mile tank. It took 14.079 gallons all the way to the top & vented.

71.212 MPG!

The first 100 miles or so were driven in a very aggressive manner (to and from Berkeley Marina VW meet), then I slowed down and drove the rest of the 900 miles as carefully as I know how. Mostly 1200rpm in 5th when possible. Most of the driving was my 15 mile work commute (includes 18 stop signs and lights one way and 20- the other). I also made a few 30 mile trips on the hilly back-roads.

The car is a 1991 VW GTI with a AHU TDI and CTN 02A transmission swapped in. Modifications to the car are listed here: 1991 GTI TDI Mod List

 

[Wksg]

Mostly 1200rpm in 5th when possible.

Now THAT's a slow ride!! Congrats, I wonder if I'll ever have the patience, or right commute, to try that.

 

[Fix_Until_Broke]

Bringing this thread back...

I filled up the GTI last night after driving it rather carefully for most of this 1002.6 mile tank. It took 14.079 gallons all the way to the top & vented.

71.212 MPG!

The first 100 miles or so were driven in a very aggressive manner (to and from Berkeley Marina VW meet), then I slowed down and drove the rest of the 900 miles as carefully as I know how. Mostly 1200rpm in 5th when possible. Most of the driving was my 15 mile work commute (includes 18 stop signs and lights one way and 20- the other). I also made a few 30 mile trips on the hilly back-roads.

The car is a 1991 VW GTI with a AHU TDI and CTN 02A transmission swapped in. Modifications to the car are listed here: 1991 GTI TDI Mod List

Excellent work! Your commute is almost exactly like mine when I created this thread.

 

[MikeMars]

Awesome, good work

 

[Turbospool]

Bringing this thread back...
I filled up the GTI last night after driving it rather carefully for most of this 1002.6 mile tank. It took 14.079 gallons all the way to the top & vented.
71.212 MPG!
The first 100 miles or so were driven in a very aggressive manner (to and from Berkeley Marina VW meet), then I slowed down and drove the rest of the 900 miles as carefully as I know how. Mostly 1200rpm in 5th when possible. Most of the driving was my 15 mile work commute (includes 18 stop signs and lights one way and 20- the other). I also made a few 30 mile trips on the hilly back-roads.
The car is a 1991 VW GTI with a AHU TDI and CTN 02A transmission swapped in. Modifications to the car are listed here: 1991 GTI TDI Mod List

That's terrific..... good hard patient work if you ask me! Congrats from the hyper group!

 

[Frankencar]

Did another:

Miles: 1114.7
Gallons: 14.201

MPG: 78.494

 

[vlad0401]

are you not lugging the engine at 1.2k 5th gear? im pretty sure it is not engine happy

 

[Frankencar]

are you not lugging the engine at 1.2k 5th gear? im pretty sure it is not engine happy

It only seems unhappy if I drop to 1K or less. The load is incredibly tine - almost impossibly small amount of throttle. This would never work in my wife's New Beetle. Keep in mind this is under 35mph in a 2400# car - not a monster MK4.

 

[vlad0401]

i have the Mk4

 

[inco9nito99]

What fuel additives are you guys running?

 

[Padrino]

Did another:

Miles: 1114.7
Gallons: 14.201

MPG: 78.494

God..... I really hate you

 

[Digital Corpus]

God..... I really hate you

Ditto! I could pull a 1500 mile tank if I got that economy!

 

[vlad0401]

What is the trick to so many MPG? The tips that everyone has read don't help me

 

[MikeMars]

What is the trick to so many MPG? The tips that everyone has read don't help me

What is your highway cruising speed, & average daily journey distance (each direction)? Do you ever do short trips (for example, to the shops?) Is it still cold in your area (noting your thread where you said that you were idling for 15 minutes prior to moving off - when it's cold your mpgs won't be good).

 

[Wksg]

What is the trick to so many MPG? The tips that everyone has read don't help me

No tricks, ALH with manual transmission in good tune, drive slow, mostly highway miles, that's enough for 60 mpg anyway.

 

[Fix_Until_Broke]

The single biggest factor is the driver - everything else is more/less trivial (with a ALH/5 speed in good working order).

Patience, looking ahead, managing the energy in the car, patience, etc

 

[Randall]

OK. this is nutz. I am not going to drive 40 mph to get 70 mpg!

So I have perfectly balanced injectors. I spent 10 hours getting the flow perfect and the pop pressures right on! The bodies are all with in 2bar on both first and second and the flow is nutz perfect. I had dozens of sets of nozzles to find the perfect set! Lapped and calibrated a perfect balanced matched set! Zero smoke white or black on startup or stomping on it. Factory tune. There are not a better set of balanced perfect popping 706 injectors anywhere on the planet! The best I can do is 55 mpg doing about 65 mph! You can't even smell diesel with the garage door closed and the engine running! Engine is rebuilt. Has about 10k on it. Shaved the block to a perfect 2 hole and the rods are all matched legnth and pistons and rods are balanced to 100th a gram! Piston protrusion is a perfect two hole within +/- 5 thousands! Compression is close to 500! You can't even see the dip stick move when the engine is running! VCDS shows flow to be right on all four injectors! This setup is sick perfect! Been playing with it for 5 months!

I want to play with cam timing! How in the HE"double hockey sticks" do you get 70 mpg out of a ALH 5sp new beetle? Do I have have to do the 5th gear mod? I see these threads with people getting 70 mpg and I just wonder How do they do it!

Are people blowing smoke about the MPG?

Do I need to modify cam timing?

Should I cut a hole in the bottom of my car's floor board and pull a Fred Flintstone? How do I get 70mpg!

 

[Fix_Until_Broke]

My opinion (no data yet) is that advancing the cam timing will help improve efficiency in the RPM band where you're trying to get good mileage. There is a risk of piston to valve contact by advancing the cam which can ruin your engine - proceed with caution and know what you're doing. FWIW, when I did this I had PP502's, RC2, 0.681 5th gear, big exhaust and EGR Delete. Cam timing was set wherever VW put it from the factory.

Like I mentioned above, hardware is a supporting factor in this kind of mileage. Ernie Rogers has a couple 70+ MPG tanks in his beetle which has slightly taller tires (~1") and a wing on the back. It does not take a lot of (or any) modifications to get some really good mileage in these cars. The beetle is the least aerodynamic of the ALH powered cars, Jetta wagon is the best.

Driving the speed limit and not being in a hurry are two significant improvements the driver can make.

Not to stick my nose in the air, but 55+ MPG should be relatively straight forward. Set the cruise at the speed limit (65 MPH), fill up 900 miles later.

To improve on that and push into the 60's and 70's MPG takes a lot more work on the drivers part. Managing hills, lights, vehicle speed, wind, a little luck, etc. Think of the car as an energy storage device. You take energy from the fuel in the tank, and turn it into speed and altitude of the car. Anytime that you put more speed in the car than you need and have to slow down using the brakes, you're wasting energy (fuel). Anytime you have to stop at the bottom of a hill, you've wasted the energy that you put into the vehicle getting it to the top of the hill versus being able to carry that momentum through into the next hill or coast it out on the flat after the hill.

 

[Randall]

oohh I read the lights and drive carefully. Use cruise. Just don't want to drive at 40 mile a hour.

I get 55 mpg at 65 mph. I want more!

Who out there has played with cam timing? There is no VCDS reading or cam sensor on these cars! I would have to make a jig and cycle the engine to make sure no valve strikes exist!

I was thinking 3-5 degrees?

 

[Fix_Until_Broke]

Each flywheel tooth is ~3 degrees and I have advanced at least 1.5 teeth without incident on my engine - I can't stress enough that there is a risk to damage the engine by doing this - just because the engine turns over by hand does not mean that there won't be valve/piston contact once the lifters pump up.

Here's some data on the subject for you to make your own decisions on.
EDIT 12March2012 - I found an error in my model - I did not account for valve protrusion from the cylinder head so the piston to valve clearances are a LOT less than they were before. The linked data and charts have been corrected and are accurate to the best of my knowledge with an OEM ALH cam, 0.040" valve protrusion from the cylinder head, 0.020" piston/head clearance, 0.040" piston valve reliefs (all ~ nominal OEM ALH numbers) at TDC.

Red Bold numbers in the linked thread have been edited

I'm not trying to scare anyone with this - just want to make sure they understand what they're doing before making cam/crank timing adjustments.

The biggest MPG return on effort/investment without slowing down is to do aerodynamic modifications to your car. Search Ernie Rogers username on this forum to see what he did on his beetle. Also search Shizzler username as he's done quite a few under car aero mods on his Jetta.

 

[Fix_Until_Broke]

Do you have these modifications on both cars? Which beetle are we discussing?

Mods Panzer Plate
5th Gear Swap
Wave Track
VNT 17/22
Chip Tune
Transporter injectors
warp drive
Flux Capicator

 

[MikeMars]

Flux capacitor sounds good, that'll be my next mod



<grins>

 

[Digital Corpus]

Flux capacitor sounds good, that'll be my next mod
<grins>

This isn't the Prius forum...

 

[Turbospool]

OK. this is nutz. I am not going to drive 40 mph to get 70 mpg!

So I have perfectly balanced injectors. I spent 10 hours getting the flow perfect and the pop pressures right on! The bodies are all with in 2bar on both first and second and the flow is nutz perfect. I had dozens of sets of nozzles to find the perfect set! Lapped and calibrated a perfect balanced matched set! Zero smoke white or black on startup or stomping on it. Factory tune. There are not a better set of balanced perfect popping 706 injectors anywhere on the planet! The best I can do is 55 mpg doing about 65 mph! You can't even smell diesel with the garage door closed and the engine running! Engine is rebuilt. Has about 10k on it. Shaved the block to a perfect 2 hole and the rods are all matched legnth and pistons and rods are balanced to 100th a gram! Piston protrusion is a perfect two hole within +/- 5 thousands! Compression is close to 500! You can't even see the dip stick move when the engine is running! VCDS shows flow to be right on all four injectors! This setup is sick perfect! Been playing with it for 5 months!

I want to play with cam timing! How in the HE"double hockey sticks" do you get 70 mpg out of a ALH 5sp new beetle? Do I have have to do the 5th gear mod? I see these threads with people getting 70 mpg and I just wonder How do they do it!

Are people blowing smoke about the MPG?

Do I need to modify cam timing?

Should I cut a hole in the bottom of my car's floor board and pull a Fred Flintstone? How do I get 70mpg!

Well my friend.... you may call it what you want... but I can guarentee you will never get 70mpg driving 65 mph no matter what mods you do. Not gonna happen. Nobody says you have to drive 40mph to get that either. There is some really good advise from some very experienced drivers up a few posts here. If you hope to set the cruise and do this and that mod to your car and get 70mpg then let us all know ... I will not be holding my breath for you, because I'm having too much fun learning the arts of driving a well tuned car , and getting my right foot programmed. . I'm not blowing smoke about my last 12, 60+mpg tanks . I was hard work and fun together. I run 45-65 mph to achieve what I get. I also have a blast beating it into redline every week. You wanna know how to get 70mpg...... then you will need to do everything in combination.. because it's simply not a single trick up someone's sleeve. Happy sailing my friend, your'e gonna need some wind on your backside!

 

[Randall]

Well the results of this new set of injectors are in. 52 mpg! Cruse on 65. Lots of highway driving. In town I read the lights.

I was hoping for more out of my injectors. They are perfect. I don't see white smoke on startup and no black smoke when I stomp on it.

Stock tune.


So what are my options? I don't want to drop below 65 on the highway. I get shown the bird enough as it is!

options?

1. Spoiler
2. 5the gear
3. Cam timing
4. Efficiency tune "not sure how much that would help"

 

[Fix_Until_Broke]

This must be the "other" car without the mods?

What wheels/tires are you running?
What is your IQ set at?
What is your Injection Timing set at?
Is your MAF Sensor known good?
Is your VNT Actuator set correctly and not sticky?
How many miles on the car?
Do you have Boost and EGT gauges?
What temp does your thermostat open/maintain?
Are you running the A/C?

You might want to start your own thread - we're getting off topic here...

 

[josh8loop]

I've got the 900 mile per tank in the bag now, pretty sure I can do the 1000 mile tank, but any higher than that might be a stretch for me. I'm looking forward to filling up tomorrow albeit a little earlier than I would like to(only approx 900 miles) in preparation for a trip that I might need to make soon. Hopefully I see 63 plus MPG on this tank. Perhaps I may just be in the 1100 mile club after all....Hmmm...

 

[yakfish]

Well the results of this new set of injectors are in. 52 mpg! Cruse on 65. Lots of highway driving. In town I read the lights.

I was hoping for more out of my injectors. They are perfect. I don't see white smoke on startup and no black smoke when I stomp on it.

Stock tune.


So what are my options? I don't want to drop below 65 on the highway. I get shown the bird enough as it is!

options?

1. Spoiler
2. 5the gear
3. Cam timing
4. Efficiency tune "not sure how much that would help"

I had a 98 Jetta a few years ago and the best tank I saw with it was 57 MPG. It was all stock and had over 250K miles on it. I was averaging about 45mpg but when I did a long highway tank with it 50-52mpg was the norm for it. then one day the exhaust rusted off just under the drivers seat and my millage jumped! I drove it for a few months before getting it "fixed". I got several tanks at 55MPG and the best was 57MPG. I drive at 65-70 and I did do anything special except set the cruise. I know these number aren't that impressive compared to some who have seen 65+ MPG but i really never try to get great mileage. I just drive like I want to get where I am going! I haven't had a TDI for about a year now and I just bought another one! I should have it here in about a week! can't wait to see what I will get out of it. But I don't plan to run at 40 for a whole tank!