70 MPG/1100/1200 Mile Club

[Fix_Until_Broke]

I don't start many threads - but didn't see one like this so I started one to raise the bar a bit for the 60 MPG / 900 /1000 mile club members.

I know there are a couple more of you out there, Ernie Rogers, Watercop, No One of Consequence, ????

Driver: Fix_Until_Broke
Miles: 1227.3
Gallons: 16.302
Model year: 2003
Model: Jetta W/0.681 5th
Tranny: 5M
Fuel type: ULSD

MPG: 75.29

~100 miles @ 55 MPH
~50 miles @ 65 MPH
~950 miles to work/home/errands/etc
~100 miles with A/C on
~10 miles pulling trailer (~1000lb) @ 40 MPH

~95% effort in driving for economy. Lots of engine off coasting (423 miles of it minimum).

One test drive by another TDI'er considering 5th gear swap

1227.3 miles on Trip Odometer vs 804 miles on SG = 423 miles coasting
423 miles @ 35 MPH = 12.08 hours @ 0.1 gal/hr idle fuel consumption = 1.208 gallons saved. MPG would have been 70.09 with no engine off time.

67,778 ODO miles

SG Readings
MPG: 52.7
GAL: 15.2
Miles: 804
AVG MPH: 35
Hours: 23
Fuel Trim +27.7% for this tank (now +34.9%)
Miles Adjustment +3% (no change)

All speeds indicated (~3% higher than actual), no Odometer Correction (~1% lower than actual)

 

[scrichy84]

Wow, those are some great numbers...great job.

 

[Lug_Nut]

Why you little.......
Here I am still trying to reaching a 60 mpg tank (1600 miles+ in a B4V) so I can mount a 60/900/1k sticker and you've upped the ante...

 

[vwjettadsl]

 

[251]

Why you little.......
Here I am still trying to reaching a 60 mpg tank (1600 miles+ in a B4V) so I can mount a 60/900/1k sticker and you've upped the ante...

Good luck getting the sticker Jonathan! I've done SIX 1000+ mile tanks at 60+ mpg and still have not been offered a sticker ..... go figure!

 

[Lug_Nut]

Will I see you in Montreal? I'll be sure to bring one or two, but I don't have six.

 

[251]

Will I see you in Montreal?

Yep - I'll be there! Leaving for Canada next Saturday to avoid the holiday traffic and take the scenic way to Quebec.

 

[Bob_Fout]

Not coming to the OH GTG?

 

[251]

Not coming to the OH GTG?

I leave for Canada on August 25th - same day as Mark's GTG. I had my trip to Montreal planned months before the GTG was announced. Remember that in the past Mark always held a fall GTG but from what I understand he moved it to August for this year (may or may not be the tradition now) especially since another OH member did not have his annual late July GTG this summer either. I talked to Mark about this as I knew about it before it was announced but the 25th fit his schedule best.

2007 really is a bad year for me at OH GTG's since I haven't made one. I usually make 3 or 4 of them! But that's life....

 

[daBooj]

send me your info, I send you a sticker. (or go to the gtg and get one from a friend. I usually send out 5: one for now, one for when the first wears out, and a couple for any qualified club members you meet who do not yet have a sticker.)

As for this club. I've done 69.9mpg and 1150miles on a tank. But have always been just shy of 70. On a tank like that there are so many good days and bad days it's hard to keep everything perfect.

 

[Brock_from_WI]

Dang, just when I was happy with 66, 65 and 66 mpg tanks in a row

So when you do EOC how is your odo still counting? Do you go to acc or back like it was running (ignition on) or what? My problem was I have about a mile spot I can coast so I did it with the engine off, but left in the "on" position. After I started it back up it ran really bad, thinking it was a fluke I tried it again, same results. I ran it again with the key further off and then the odo wasn't on and SG shut off as well but no problems when I re-started later. Now I just coast idling, I feel safer that way as well even though where I do it I never see another car.

 

[Fix_Until_Broke]

daBooj - PM Sent

I had quite a few less than perfect things on this tank, but I know what you mean, it's a lot of work. It's kind of like driving in inclement weather - all the time, everywhere you go, every day, twice a day, for 1200 miles. Paying such close attention to so many things, traffic lights, other cars, your speed, SG, boost & EGT's, etc and everything is changing all the time so you're constantly modifying what you do to make the most out of the momentum that is in your car.

Brock - I have a switch in my dash that is wired in series with the shutoff solenoid on the end of the injection pump. This way I don't have to cycle the key at all. I usually bump start it with the clutch unless I just missed a red light and have to set at the intersection for a couple minutes, then I use the starter. Not sure why you have rough running on restart - maybe my intank lift pump helps out in this?

Consecuetive tanks in the mid 60's is also a great accomplishment. Maybe someday I can repeat this or improve upon it, but not for a while. Too many road trips coming up.

 

[daBooj]

hrm... let me clairify my post here.

I was typing that to CoolWht (and anyone else who wants one). I only have the 60mpg/1,000 mile per tank sticker and probably wont make any others. I'm happy to send those out, just need your information in a PM.

 

[SpamJ]

Ok, I can't let that record stand.

I'll thinking I'll work on it this weekend, if I can figure a way to drive to Montana and back without getting run over doing 60 MPH.

FYI I have the .681 too and GLI Front Lip and am in the 900 mile club.

I'll take an extra 5 gallon tank of Diesel so I don't end up being a total idiot somewhere in North Dakota.

 

[Fix_Until_Broke]

Good luck - may the wind be with you (in both directions)

 

[JasonCzerak]

daBooj - PM Sent

I had quite a few less than perfect things on this tank, but I know what you mean, it's a lot of work. It's kind of like driving in inclement weather - all the time, everywhere you go, every day, twice a day, for 1200 miles. Paying such close attention to so many things, traffic lights, other cars, your speed, SG, boost & EGT's, etc and everything is changing all the time so you're constantly modifying what you do to make the most out of the momentum that is in your car.

Brock - I have a switch in my dash that is wired in series with the shutoff solenoid on the end of the injection pump. This way I don't have to cycle the key at all. I usually bump start it with the clutch unless I just missed a red light and have to set at the intersection for a couple minutes, then I use the starter. Not sure why you have rough running on restart - maybe my intank lift pump helps out in this?

Consecuetive tanks in the mid 60's is also a great accomplishment. Maybe someday I can repeat this or improve upon it, but not for a while. Too many road trips coming up.

So lemme get this straight (as I'm new to the TDI club), you actully shut the motor off by killing hte power to the Injection pump?

Don't tar and feather me here, but what about the saftey and legality aspects of this practice? Anyone been cought with their pants down so to speak? I'm sure there is a long thread some place here, please point me to it

What about ware and high temps on parts like the turbo? I know on my CTD my motor will not be shut off until EGT's are at 320 or less.

 

[Fix_Until_Broke]

Regarding the engine off coasting [Link & Link]. There are a lot of opinions on this, very strong opinions by some. If you wish to discuss further, please either continue in one of the above linked threads or PM me.

Regarding wear and high temps/EGT's:
Bump starting with the clutch is probably no worse than downshifting
Extra starter starts - more wear on starter and flywheel
EGT's (Post Turbo) - typically max 600F, driving 400-500, engine off anywhere in there. Probaly have shut it off at 600-700 before. No problems yet.

I'm also supposed to have stuck VNT vanes, a clogged intake and swarms of locust for my driving style - but when I put my racepipe in there was at most 1/8" anywhere in the EGR/intake. VNT works fine and no locust swarms Not saying that it does not happen to people, but it has not happened to me for whatever reason.

 

[SpamJ]

I still haven't come up with a game plan, (thinking of an interstate area where I can pull off 45 MPH and not piss anyone off i.e get run over by an inattetive driver) but no matter what happens, 70 plus MPG is damn impressive! Well Done.

BTW as far as you know, is 72 the record?

 

[Fix_Until_Broke]

Spamjohnson - I think Ernie Rogers has a 78.?? going to TDIFest 2005 in his Beetle and LugNut claimed an 83 MPG in some sort of competition with his B4V so I'm no record holder.

My next goal is 80+. I tried for it once with disappointing results but I think filling up at a different station (which had a not flat location) might have had something to do with it.

 

[Mo' MPG]

I'll take the challenge...... It may take me six months, but I'm up to 54 MPG on a completely UNMODIFIED '98 Jetta. (MOnkeyed with the tire pressure and PS additive used)

The Mods start next weekend.... I'll keep you informed!

(1st one may be a mast and sail)

 

[Fix_Until_Broke]

......The Mods start next weekend.... I'll keep you informed!

(1st one may be a mast and sail)

I'll be interested to see what an A3 can do - way to step up. They don't seem to get the mileage of the VE A4's but I have no idea why.

Good luck with the mast and sail

 

[SpamJ]

I was parked in back of Ernie in the Lake Mills Picture, he is a DemiGod,

But....

Has anyone touched your 1227.3? (B4V's not included)

 

[Fix_Until_Broke]

Not that I know of - Watercop, Ernie Rogers and No One Of Consequence are the only ones that come to mind recently that have come close.

If there are others from "back in the day" or someone who is not a TDIClub member that someone else knows of have them chime in. I'm sure there's more than a few ways to go about it.

 

[Ernie Rogers]

Confession time

Well, alright, I DID get 78 mpg, 1209 miles on 15.5 gallons. But, I cheated. (I did the identical score two years driving to TDIFest: 2005, 2006.) Here are the particulars--

The course: I drove from the Jeremy Ranch Phillips station in Park City to a Phillips station on the outskirts of Davenport, IA.

How I cheated:
1. I only drove at 50 mph (true speed), never letting the engine cool off except for a single stop at about mid-point for about 4 hours to sleep. I did an occasional Italian tune-up to keep the engine clean.

2. The engine was hot when I started the run. I conditioned the engine by charging up the Parley's summit grade, foot to the floor, from Salt Lake City to Park City, THEN carefully filled the tank to the brim, including 5% biodiesel and 4 oz of Power Service (I think).

3. The elevation where I started the run was close to 7,000 ft elevation, and I ended the run at about 1,000 ft. This constitutes an average grade of -0.094 %. I calculated the mileage effect: + 1.5 mpg

4. The entire drive was on I-80 which is pretty decent pavement. More importantly, I drove across the full length of Wyoming, at a very good elevation and with some good prevailing-westerlies tailwind.

5. Driving on I-80 at 50 mph is a tricky business, not really recommended.

6. While I have the standard car (2003 Beetle) with no modifications to the engine or transmission (yet), I am using Michelin Energy MXV4 S8 205/60R-16 tires, which are 3% oversized and should boost my mileage by about 3% on that basis. I ran the tires at 42 psi, as I recall. The rolling resistance of the tires was estimated to be Crr = 0.0065. The total effect of the tires is estimated to be +6%

7. I have a drag reducer on my Beetle; it gives a measured 3 mpg boost in mileage for the Beetle, but that just equalizes me with the Jetta in terms of drag, I think.

8. I am using 506.01 oil-- Motul was used for the runs, currently using Elf. This is thought to raise mileage by about 7%

9. All gauge errors were adjusted for. I drove at a true 50 mpg, and the odometer correction was x 1.045.

The driving technique was very simple-- I just set the cruise control and relaxed until the next potty break, about every four hours.

I think a lot of you are actually doing better than I am, considering the driving conditions. If I do the 5th gear modification, my mileage should improve quite a bit.

Ernie Rogers

Not that I know of - Watercop, Ernie Rogers and No One Of Consequence are the only ones that come to mind recently that have come close.

If there are others from "back in the day" or someone who is not a TDIClub member that someone else knows of have them chime in. I'm sure there's more than a few ways to go about it.

 

[SpamJ]

Ernie and all,

I don't consider that cheating, the only thing we could do that might be considered a "cheat" would be to get a vehicle to draft and sit 5 feet off the bumper. And as long as we revealed it, I'd just chalk that up to a data point.

I like the mileage on the A4 tank as a benchmark. It should be pretty close between the 4 types (Beetle, Golf, Jetta, Jetta Wagon) and takes filling up out of the equation, It's in our best interest to fill up to to the brim at the onset. And while we could fudge the refill, why would we?

I am in this to learn, so Ernie and Fix until Broke, giving us all the parameters of their trips just proves the point that we are here to share info, not hoard it.

Thanks everyone, it's quite a goal to get to, (1300 miles) I doubt I can do it, but it's fun to dream

 

[Ernie Rogers]

You live near Vikingrob

Hello, Johnson,

Oh, there you are, just above Minneapolis. Vikingrob lives there, and my daughter's family lives in Apple Valley.

Now, about your goal of getting 1300 miles--

That's a worthy goal, BUT requires a generous portion of insanity. Let's think about this for a minute.

Let's see, check my math-- if a person can get 80 mpg, then he can also get 1300 miles on one regular-sized tank (just barely).

I think changing your goal to getting 80 mpg would be a good substitute, wouldn't you say? Now, what would be the minimum trip length to insure sufficient reliability in the mileage determination--

If a person fills before and after with exactly the same procedure, with venting, then I would guess you can measure the fuel with a maximum error of 0.1 gallon. Let's say we want to keep the MPG error to no more than 2%, then the fuel used must be at least five gallons.

Looks like we could accept an MPG claim as certifiable if the travel distance is greater than 400 miles, or the fuel used is at least 5 gallons.

There you are, the basis for a somewhat sane goal. 400 miles on less than five gallons, or equivalent.

Why not make it a contest? I propose we set aside all old records, and only recognize mileage accomplished from this date forward. Now, let's see who can get the best number?

Like the monthly mileage contest, I think it would be best to recognize categories.

Ernie Rogers

Ernie and all,

Thanks everyone, it's quite a goal to get to, (1300 miles) I doubt I can do it, but it's fun to dream

 

[SpamJ]

The problem of getting the 5 gallon fill up to be correct is the issue. Any deviaton for the perfect fill up would slew the numbers.

That said, I was at one time a high mileage motorcycle rider, not in the same vain as the recent Iron Butt run, but a fan. So I've done a 1500 miles in 24 hours. In a TDI that will take longer for mileage but a lot more comfortable. I'll route my trip to take advantage of some slower speed driving. I'm thinking of doing half one day, and half the next. Over next door (North/South Dakota) is I-29, not the most busy interstate. So perhaps I could run over there. I need to move the Scan Gauge 1 out of the F350 and into the Jetta and use Brock's settings he sent me. If I can't get near 70 to 80 MPG in steady speed testing, I'll bag the test, but if I can get those numbers at a steady 50 MPH with the tires aired up, I might give it a shot this weekend baring too much wind.

Where else can you have so much fun for a $50 fill up.

 

[Fix_Until_Broke]

Hello, Johnson,

Oh, there you are, just above Minneapolis. Vikingrob lives there, and my daughter's family lives in Apple Valley.

Now, about your goal of getting 1300 miles--

That's a worthy goal, BUT requires a generous portion of insanity. Let's think about this for a minute.

Let's see, check my math-- if a person can get 80 mpg, then he can also get 1300 miles on one regular-sized tank (just barely).

I think changing your goal to getting 80 mpg would be a good substitute, wouldn't you say? Now, what would be the minimum trip length to insure sufficient reliability in the mileage determination--

If a person fills before and after with exactly the same procedure, with venting, then I would guess you can measure the fuel with a maximum error of 0.1 gallon. Let's say we want to keep the MPG error to no more than 2%, then the fuel used must be at least five gallons.

Looks like we could accept an MPG claim as certifiable if the travel distance is greater than 400 miles, or the fuel used is at least 5 gallons.

There you are, the basis for a somewhat sane goal. 400 miles on less than five gallons, or equivalent.

Why not make it a contest? I propose we set aside all old records, and only recognize mileage accomplished from this date forward. Now, let's see who can get the best number?

Like the monthly mileage contest, I think it would be best to recognize categories.

Ernie Rogers

Ernie - I like your idea of a little competition. I've got a couple suggestions...

1) To minimize variables, I would encourage filling up at the same station, same pump, same nozzle, facing the same direction. This negates elevation change advantages/disadvantages and, to a lesser extent, wind variables.

2) I think 10 gallons has a nice ring to it and makes things that much more accurate. By the time you factor in distance measurement of +/- 1% as well we'll still have reasonable accuracy.
.
3) I know some will say "Aww - that's a fluke, do it again". The above two ideas should mitigate that, but a repeat performance is always a good confidence builder. It is also taxing on the sanity of the driver.

Allright - so who's got 700+ miles at 1/2 (vented) tank? Gosh - that really puts it into perspective. I remember when I thought I was really 'gettin it done' when I made 700 on a full tank and finally broke 50 MPG. We've really come a long way.

Maybe some basic rules in the spirit of the competition...
-No being towed by another vehicle
-All energy sources must be accounted for and normalized for energy content per unit
-Saftey first

Oh - FWIW, my 75 MPG/1227 mile tank lasted me 30 days so I had ~60 "cold" (July/August in Wisconsin) starts. And if I really wanted to get fussy, I'd add the 1% difference between my odometer and mile marker readings and get 1239.5 miles/16.302 gallons = 76.03 MPG

 

[Brock_from_WI]

That is another interesting data point, the # of cold starts. I think that is one of my limiting factors, driving to and from work at just about 11 miles each way. And often when I work long days (about once a week) I will run home and eat, although the trip back to work nets some great mileage with the engine being pretty warm.

Since I have changed my oil to elf 506.01 I have had every tank over 60 mpg (6 as of today), I don't think it can be all my driving style, it is some amazing oil.

 

[Fix_Until_Broke]

I'm thinking of having some stickers made up for this club (just got my 60/1000 ones from daBooj yesterday).

Was thinking of something simple like this

Member of the TDIClub.com
70+ MPG / 1200+ Mile Tank Club

Just in simple black background/white letters ~9"Wide x ~1-1/4"Tall from stickernation.com is ~$50 for 125 stickers. If there are other/better places to get stickers from, let me know.

I'm open to other ideas as well