6 speed conversion kit

[EuroTuning]

Ok, I am back with bad news. My second kit lost the 6th gear. It appears that the gear wore down, the material wiped out the roller bearing in the trans. Is there anyone in the north east U.S. that installs / has experience with these kits. The trans was overhauled prior to installing both kits. The first kit the 6th gear teeth just broke off with out warning. Second kit 6the gear wore down in a couple thousand miles before I got severe vibration. Ramid wants me to send the trans to him. I can not see the point of sending him good transmissions just to install the kits.

It is not easy to determine the cause of your problem. The kits were bought in 2013, that means they are from the same series as the John's and Windex's, and their operate without problems.

So how you describe the cause of the disorder is far better technically justified vice versa. First the shaft wills are not adjusted properly, so the bearing and shaft travel back and forth. Then pitting on the bearing develops and due to the continuous movement of the shaft the gears wear down.

However, we definitely do not want to leave your gearbox without solutions. I offer the possibility of sending the entire gearbox to us for 220 USD one way. Because you have bought 2 kits from us, I can offer to pay for transport one way. Everything else remains as I have already informed you by e-mail. Send us the second damaged kit too.

We would change the bad parts and then I would send them back with the gearbox. You would then have a gearbox and a kit. I would give you very good prices on all parts, but first I have to see what parts need to get changed. Work will not be expensive, about 100 USD.

Radim

 

[greenie]

My transmission shop has found nothing wrong with the transmission prior to the second kit installation. The first install I inspected trans as per this thread. Enjoyed 6th gear for only a couple thousand miles. had no problem, then gear broke all the teeth off. sent both trans to a local shop. They found nothing wrong with both trans (1-4 gears). They performed the upgrade (service bulletin) for the 48mm bearing. Then the second kit with in 1k miles I started getting a vibration at cruise. I changed driveshafts, 3ea motor mounts, harmonic balance,wheel bearings, all tie rods, wheel alignment. I still have a second 96 Passat waiting for the kit. So you can see I have been through a lot for this kit. I have a problem shipping two GOOD transmissions to Czech Republic. I am still not sure what to do. Has any body done these kits on the north east coast USA ?

 

[EuroTuning]

My transmission shop has found nothing wrong with the transmission prior to the second kit installation. The first install I inspected trans as per this thread. Enjoyed 6th gear for only a couple thousand miles. had no problem, then gear broke all the teeth off. sent both trans to a local shop. They found nothing wrong with both trans (1-4 gears). They performed the upgrade (service bulletin) for the 48mm bearing. Then the second kit with in 1k miles I started getting a vibration at cruise. I changed driveshafts, 3ea motor mounts, harmonic balance,wheel bearings, all tie rods, wheel alignment. I still have a second 96 Passat waiting for the kit. So you can see I have been through a lot for this kit. I have a problem shipping two GOOD transmissions to Czech Republic. I am still not sure what to do. Has any body done these kits on the north east coast USA ?

Sorry for my English, I guess we did not understand each other.

I did not mean send the two gearboxes, just that you could send the last one broken gearbox with all parts of a 6-gear kit and also all (including faulty) parts of the first kit.

We will replace the broken parts and send you back the assembled six-speed gearbox and a complete kit, where we replace the damaged parts with new ones.

Radim

 

[Andyinchville1]

HI Greenie,

Sorry to hear about your problems....I was getting ready to pull the trigger on the 6 speed conversion myself but I am waiting to see what is figured out in your situation....hate to buy into a potential problem since I use my car for work.

BTW...I see you are not terribly far from me (At least on the East coast!)....Who did you get to install the kit and how much did they charge for it ?....Getting the kit installed was my other issue initially.

Thanks and good luck on your tranny....

Andrew

 

[john.jackson9213]

Andrew,

Check with BobS and see who did his conversion. Think he has installed his kit. Bob is in Virginia.

 

[Andyinchville1]

Andrew,

Check with BobS and see who did his conversion. Think he has installed his kit. Bob is in Virginia.

HI,

Thanks for the lead....I'll look into that very soon....I have to drive again tonight for work....6 speed would be sooo nice!

Andrew

 

[greenie]

Andyinchville1, I installed both kits on the bench. 6 speed is soooo nice. I guess I had some bad luck.

 

[greenie]

Ramid,
I am thinking I need to ship both trans to you. The first kit I installed on the bench with a trans with approximately 100,000miles. I followed all the directions plus suggestions from the thread at TDIclub.com. that gear lost all the teeth without warning. I sent both trans to a experienced transmission shop. They found nothing wrong with either trans. They performed the bigger 48mm bearing service bulletin on both transmissions. I installed second kit on a known good, fresh from the shop trans. shortly after find 6th gear worn and roller bearing bad. The only thing that is the same between both failed kits is my installation of both kits and the kits. Sending one good trans to you for installing a kit then have me install the second kit does not make me happy. I would like to ship both transmissions (gear box) with both kits and have your shop install kits. Maybe your shop can discover the problem. Send two complete 6speed transmission (gear box) back to me and I hope I never have another problem again.

 

[MrDave]

Greenie,
when you had the trans apart, did you add the 5th gear oiler update?

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=299083



-Dave

 

[Andyinchville1]

Greenie,
when you had the trans apart, did you add the 5th gear oiler update?

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=299083



-Dave

HI Dave,

I looked at the link regarding oiling of the 5th gear and I suppose it would even lube the 6th gear too which I'm sure would or could be a good thing as well but it made me think of something else as well...

In the Dodge pick up truck world there is a similar issue with lubing the 5th gear in the manual tranny but the solution on that side was to simply overfill the tranny by I think a quart (done by filling the trans through the shift tower since the fill hole itself is too low to allow over filling)....

Could we do something like that on our VWs (simply over fill by a bit) ?

That may take care of the lube issue since the lube hole is too high for a "stock" fluid level fill.....I have 242K miles on my tranny and it seems OK so far but your post made me a little paranoid now.....HA....if its not one thing its another but maybe if it has gone this long it'll keep on rolling along?

I am still looking at this thread with great interest (i really want a six speed upgrade) but since I use my car for work I really cant afford to be broken down....

As an aside, I wonder how many folks in general have had the 6 speed conversion done and how many have had trouble free usage of the 6 speed for many many miles (by many many I would hope for 50K plus (or much more) trouble free miles) ?

Andrew

 

[Windex]

If I recall, Greenie added a hole in his case to allow lube to flow into the 5th gear end-case.

I wonder if that has worked against him?

I left mine stock - no additional oiling, but no additional holes either.

 

[Andyinchville1]

If I recall, Greenie added a hole in his case to allow lube to flow into the 5th gear end-case.

I wonder if that has worked against him?

I left mine stock - no additional oiling, but no additional holes either.

HI,

Just curious but why would adding a lube hole cause problems (unless metal shavings were left in or maybe the added fluid gets churned up with air bubbles and is less effective since the oil would be a "froth" rather than more of a liquid)?

As far as I know I'm stock too unless the PO did something that I'm not aware of...

Andrew

 

[MrDave]

I looked at the link regarding oiling of the 5th gear and I suppose it would even lube the 6th gear too

The EuroTuning kit puts 6th where 5th was, then puts 5th out on the end. If a gear were to grenade first, I would expect 5th.

I installed 2 kits, one in an 02J, one in an 02A. Both kits also got the oiling add-on and additional drainage holes. I've had no issues with either kit.
29,000kms on one, 52,000kms on the other.

I had a VLEnt Option6 for the 020 transmission many years ago, it let go due to lack of oil.

-Dave

 

[greenie]

Yes, I drilled holes in both trans and I posted it after some one suggested it in this thread. I am still waiting for an answer from Ramid. I hope I have time to pick up the trans from the shop Saturday.

 

[john.jackson9213]

My transmission had the 5th gear oil modification before the 6 speed conversion was done.

Mr. Dave - want to say a big thank you for posting about this 6 speed kit 5 years ago now!!

 

[G60ING]

With the potential issues is this still worth the time, money and effort? Seems like a money pit.

 

[Windex]

I guess it's up to each individual's situation.

If I had another B4V or was scoping out another MK4 wagon for the long term, I'd get one in a heartbeat. Other than my own error initially adjusting the 5/6th rod adjustment wrong, mine has been in operation without issue for 100,000 miles.

 

[john.jackson9213]

With the potential issues is this still worth the time, money and effort? Seems like a money pit.

We can say exactly the same thing about any of our car projects/project cars. Right?

Anita tells me to quit spending on old cars and just buy a new Toyota for dependable transportation. Then spend the extra money to take her on an extra month long vacation every single year. She has a valid point.

I have had zero issues with the transmission kit since it was installed close to 5 years ago. A little history on the transmission:

It was purchased used about 7 years ago. I had Matt Whitbread tear down and inspect the transmission. He did the 5th gear oil modification, then installed a .622 Fifth gear. The transmission was installed with a new clutch and run for about 18 months.
About 5 years ago Matt Phalen installed the EuroTuning kit with the transmission still in the Passat. All that has been done since is drive the car and use the transmission. Zero problems/issues.

I could have spent a lot more money to import a full factory 6 speed box and adapt it to my Passat. Or I could just have kept the original factory 5 speed transmission - there was nothing wrong with it. It would probably still be running just fine.

Would I do it again? In fact I have a 2nd kit sitting on my shelf and another spare trans to put it in. All to go with a fresh engine when needed.

 

[EuroTuning]

Yes, I drilled holes in both trans and I posted it after some one suggested it in this thread. I am still waiting for an answer from Ramid. I hope I have time to pick up the trans from the shop Saturday.

Yes I see what you are suggesting, in principle I agree, but sending two gearboxes together is not so simple. It is different to send 50 kg or 100 kg, the handling is that much more difficult. In any case, it is necessary that both gearboxes were oil free and placed in a fixed box of minimal dimensions, so that it would be possible to put something on top. Non-stackable consignments get additional fees.

So the price of a consignment is 450 USD one way. That makes the whole trip 900 USD, plus there are the costs of customs procedures in the amount of 100 USD. Our offer still stands. We will contribute 220 USD for the shipping.

Preliminary cost for repairing gearboxes will be:

1000 USD shipping + customs procedures
FREE work on both gearboxes. Work on one would be $ 100 but I suggested that we contribute to shipping, so we get the work done free of charge.
+ Price of parts that will have to be changed. The exact amount will be known when we check the gearboxes.

Radim

 

[shortysclimbin]

I was just considering one of these kits because the boraparts kits are out...

I'm holding off until a clear communication of the Quality issues are found and mitigation is proven. I do a lot of Root Cause investigation for Turbine components and wonder if we can't find a local shop to do the testing for less than the $1000 to just ship things?

I'd suggest the following Root Cause investigation actions:

1) Rockwell hardness test on the gears
2) Materials determination on the gears
3) Electron microscope images of gear teeth
4) 6 gear Gearbox cover measurements to make sure the bearing locations are:
a) correct
b) don't have too much clearance
c) are round
5) oem gearbox cover measurements for the 5th gear bearing housing and shafts (same measurements as above). potential wear factors or poor oem casting issues could cause gear spread issues.
6) Oil sample to determine if any abnormalities are present. (eliminates water/ moisture question).

Items 1-3 could be done at a good mechanical college. Go in and ask the professor if they have a student(s) that would like to dig into a real life problem for a little cash. I've had good results doing this and helping bring in real experiences to the classroom.

Items 4-5 would need the manufacturer's drawings info and this should be treated as proprietary. Id suggest finding a reputable machine shop to take the needed measurements OR ship only the case pieces in question to cut down on weight, size and time.


Eurotuning, I'd consider looking for alternatives as it sounds like this one customer has had 2 issues and spent $3400usd in kits from you. It also looks like you have two other customers considering this, but we are on the fence until we know the facts and mitigation aspects. It is very much unclear with what is posted in here if the causal factor(s) are Process, Materials, Product, or Mother nature related. I'd like to see the whole Root Cause investigation clearly outlined and public source as this will gain my confidence to order from you.

 

[Andyinchville1]

My transmission had the 5th gear oil modification before the 6 speed conversion was done.

Mr. Dave - want to say a big thank you for posting about this 6 speed kit 5 years ago now!!

HI,

Just curious but how many miles have you put on the 6 speed?

Thanks

Andrew

 

[john.jackson9213]

HI,

Just curious but how many miles have you put on the 6 speed?

Thanks

Andrew

Just a guesstimate, because I changed my cluster, but about 50K

 

[EuroTuning]

Thank you for the detailed instructions on how to proceed, some ideas seem reasonable...
On the other hand, it is necessary to realize what we are dealing with:
1) We work on gearboxes for more than 20 years, we have made thousands, and I think in that time we have learned many things
2) All products manufactured are of the highest quality, the gears are ground, which is by manufacturers offered only very rarely, except of course for serial manufacturers
3) The customer bought 2 kits, and both have failed. These kits are of the same batch as the kits that have been working for several years without any problem
4) There is no theory of probability that would be apply to this situation. However, when considering the above facts, rather than a problem of the material, an error in process of installation is more likely to be the cause.
5) To the customer, we suggested sending the broken gearbox and the two broken kits to us, to find and eliminate the cause. We also suggested to pay a part of the shipping costs. Then we are talking not about 1000 USD, but about 300-400 USD, for which the customer gets back the assembled 6-speed gearbox and a complete functional kit, in which defective parts will be replaced with new ones
6) 220 USD is one-way transport, 100 USD are customs fees and we will charge very little for the work. Also, we will discount the parts that must be replaced. We are even considering working for free in order to reduce repair costs, but what more? Nobody knows yet where the cause is, but as I pointed out in paragraphs 3 and 4 it is most likely not the material
Radim

 

[greenie]

Well with some help from shortyclimbin and a little history check, here is the sequence.
I installed the first kit on the bench, on page 25 #370 I mention the shutter/vibration. I was at about 7k miles on the kit. Then I lost 6th gear, just lost all the teeth at once. Local transmission shop removed kit and found the roller bearing at the pinion was bad. They replaced the bearing, performed service bulletin for the 48mm bearing as mention by Eurotuning on pg 25 #366 on both of the transmissions. The removed 46mm bearings showed no signs of wear. I then installed second kit on the ORIGINAL transmission and used the original aluminum case from the first kit. The second kit started showing similar signs. I changed transmission oil and found metal. Found transmission kept making metal. Replaced all moving front end parts and engine mounts. No help. Removed aluminum cover and found wear on 6th gear. I removed transmission and brought it back to the transmission shop where they removed kit and found pinion roller bearing failed again. The common denominators were the same transmission and aluminum cover used, two kits and the installer of the two kits(me). Speculation is maybe the transmission specifications maybe off a little. Maybe it was good enough for oem use, but for the kit it put on extra load on the bearing? Now that I am looking at this problem from a different point of view, with some help from shortyclimbin, I plan to ship only the one bad transmission and both kits back.

 

[shortysclimbin]

Greenie, I think that is a good option so the parts supplier can figure it out. I hope they post it up here too for us to understand what was found. A lot of us on here (myself included) do self installations.

 

[dirtride]

Greenie, I think that is a good option so the parts supplier can figure it out. I hope they post it up here too for us to understand what was found. A lot of us on here (myself included) do self installations.

And very interested in buying one of these kits to install in the future!

 

[Readin]

Hi, Guys.

I'd like to ask you. I read, that few people have problem with Cruise Control after adding 6. gear or change 5. gear.

Do you know, if this is also problem on 1.8T petrol engine, engine code: AUQ, or is just problem on TDi-PD?

I want also 6 speed conversion, but I want to know, if I will lose CC with 6. gear. Thank you.

 

[EuroTuning]

Hi Greenie,
Would you still want us to solve that problem with your gearbox? If so, pack it into a box, so that it's a stackable shipment and let me know ... I'll send TNT for it ...
Regards,
Radim

 

[shortysclimbin]

Thanks Radim for keeping this post updated and open communication! I really want a kit.. but I am holding off as I will do the installation myself, but don't want to end up with a toasted transmission down the road.

 

[Andyinchville1]

Well with some help from shortyclimbin and a little history check, here is the sequence.
I installed the first kit on the bench, on page 25 #370 I mention the shutter/vibration. I was at about 7k miles on the kit. Then I lost 6th gear, just lost all the teeth at once. Local transmission shop removed kit and found the roller bearing at the pinion was bad. They replaced the bearing, performed service bulletin for the 48mm bearing as mention by Eurotuning on pg 25 #366 on both of the transmissions. The removed 46mm bearings showed no signs of wear. I then installed second kit on the ORIGINAL transmission and used the original aluminum case from the first kit. The second kit started showing similar signs. I changed transmission oil and found metal. Found transmission kept making metal. Replaced all moving front end parts and engine mounts. No help. Removed aluminum cover and found wear on 6th gear. I removed transmission and brought it back to the transmission shop where they removed kit and found pinion roller bearing failed again. The common denominators were the same transmission and aluminum cover used, two kits and the installer of the two kits(me). Speculation is maybe the transmission specifications maybe off a little. Maybe it was good enough for oem use, but for the kit it put on extra load on the bearing? Now that I am looking at this problem from a different point of view, with some help from shortyclimbin, I plan to ship only the one bad transmission and both kits back.

Just curious but whatever happened in his case ?

I like the idea of a 6th gear BUT I don't want issues....

Thanks

Andrew