6 speed conversion kit

SFHGolfTDI

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Nov 3, 2003
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2002 Jolf GLS TDI - Reflex Silver (purchased 2011) | Wife's: 2005 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited - Patriot Blue (purchased 2013) | Previously: 2001 Golf GL TDI - Indigo Blue (sold 2005)
John, can you explain what an "mk4 shift system" is? Sorry if that is a noob question.
 

MikeMars

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Did it look like other standard gears would fit for the sixth? Someone on the A2 forum is interested in a 0.622 for 6th & wanted to know if he could a VW cog in.
 

jcboulware

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May 27, 2007
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Florida
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2004 Jetta TDI Wagon 6-speed
Anyone thinking of this mod for a Mk4 BEW Jetta? What are the gotcha's? It certainly has my interest peaked.
 

MikeMars

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FYI EuroTuning have just replied to my query, and they say that you can't put standard cogs in there. So the options are 0.65, 0.59, and in the future also 0.52 (hence 0.62 not available).
 

MikeMars

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There is more detail in the actual email:
EuroTuning Email said:
Hello Mike,

We don't offer .622 ratio, we make only those ratios, that can be used in the most of 5-gear gearboxes. The most popular 6th gear for TDI engines was .65, which continues on .75; VW makes 5-gear gearboxes with longer 5th gear now, so we had to add .59 ratio to our special 6th gears. It continues on 5th gear .71. We are preparing 6th gear .52 for new generation of VW T5 with 5th gear .66 gearboxes. 6th gear .74 is the most used in gasoline engines.
We believe, that it is possible to build optimal solution for every gearbox 02A, 02J, 02B, 02R.

Gear ratio 0.62 can't be used, because our solution has 6th gear in place of 5th gear and driven wheel are different from manufactured (as in image)

[cid:111584fb177c40za0c4.65565154]

With sending 2 kits together, the shipping cost will be as for only 1.
Regards,
Radim
 

MikeMars

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Many thanks for supplying the image.

I have initiated things with my bank (for the single 02J/EWQ kit with 0.59), so hopefully within a few weeks I will be driving around with 6 gears :)
 

jcboulware

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Florida
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2004 Jetta TDI Wagon 6-speed
Mike,

Do you have a direct email for them? I want to start moving forward on this as well. Thanks.
 

MikeMars

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What are the gotcha's? So far only $$$$. But the install is not started yet.
These are the potential gotchas which I am aware of:

* $$$$ as pointed out. My crude estimate based on the BSFC chart is that with UK fuel prices it may need something like 120-150k motorway miles to break even.
* Cruise control doesn't like the gear to be too long. So it is possible that cruise only works in 5th and below. I know that 0.65 and 0.622 are OK for the cruise, but don't know about 0.59 or 0.52 (personally I don't care if cruise works or not in 6th).
* An ultralong gear such as 0.52 may have a risk of cracking the cog since there is a lot of force going through a small component.
* You may need to change down to 5th for steep hills / strong acceleration.
* There may be extra stress on the clutch leading to early replacement, particuarly if you change into the wrong gear suddenly, or don't change down to 5th when you should.
* If the person doing the install drops a component into the gearbox when attempting to do the 'in place' installation, they'd need to do the full disassembly instead in order to retrieve the component.


I personally don't see any of these as being a significant problem.
 
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john.jackson9213

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Miramar, Ca. (Think Top Gun)
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1996 B4V
These are the potential gotchas which I am aware of:

* $$$$ as pointed out. My crude estimate based on the BSFC chart is that with UK fuel prices it may need something like 120-150k motorway miles to break even.

I don't see a fuel saving justification for this conversion. My older 5 speed swap cost about $450-500. I picked up 2 mpg on the highway. But, the car was much more quiet on the highway.


* Cruise control doesn't like the gear to be too long. So it is possible that cruise only works in 5th and below. I know that 0.65 and 0.622 are OK for the cruise, but don't know about 0.59 or 0.52 (personally I don't care if cruise works or not in 6th).

My cruise control works with the .622 5th gear with out any issues. I expect it will also work with a .59 6th gear with no issues.


* An ultralong gear such as 0.52 may have a risk of cracking the cog since there is a lot of force going through a small component.

Don't disagree with this. Besides, it would take a 1900 rpm cruse speed down to 1700 rpm. Might work OK with a VNT turbo. Not sure with my stock 96 turbo.

* You may need to change down to 5th for steep hills / strong acceleration.

And so what is wrong with down shifting? :< )


* There may be extra stress on the clutch leading to early replacement, particuarly if you change into the wrong gear suddenly, or don't change down to 5th when you should.

I got 200K from the stock clutch, can I reasonably ask for more?


* If the person doing the install drops a component into the gearbox when attempting to do the 'in place' installation, they'd need to do the full disassembly instead in order to retrieve the component.

When you try to save some "pennies" you run some risks. If you don't want the risk, pay full price?


I personally don't see any of these as being a significant problem.
Mike, I agree with you 100%

My install will start this Saturday.
 
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jcboulware

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2004 Jetta TDI Wagon 6-speed
As soon as I hear back from EuroTuning I will be buying mine....and let me say the wait is killing me.

Their brochure says break even will be around 93k miles, so I'll have it paid off in about 2.5 years. Saving fuel money isn't in my mind.

Loosing cruise will be irritant as I use it daily on the interstate on the way to work, but I can live without it if need be.

If cracking is a problem, I may stick with the .59 instead of pursuing the .52

I am at 170K on the original clutch, so if 200K is a good average clutch lifespan, I may wait to start the install until I'm ready for the clutch (but I doubt I will be able to wait).

Let me know how your installs go and how you like the results.
 

MikeMars

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...
And so what is wrong with down shifting? :< )
...
Yeah, exactly, that's what I thought too :) But 'having to downshift' was the 2nd common concern I heard when I was discussing the ratios elsewhere (after price).

Good luck with the install! I'm still fighting with my bank regarding the money transfer (stupid security requirements), but hopefully they will be sending it today.
 

Windex

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Apr 1, 2006
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Cambridge
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05 B5V 01E FRF
Now, what would the payback be say comapared to a 5th gear swap to a .658 or .622 5th gear swap on its own?:D
 

MikeMars

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Now, what would the payback be say comapared to a 5th gear swap to a .658 or .622 5th gear swap on its own?:D
That's hard to say. The trouble with a 5th gear swap is that for driving where you would have been in the original 5th, but are now in 4th, the fuel consumption goes up. So it depends on how much driving you do at highway speeds, and how much driving you do at the lower speed range. One person may have a significant benefit from the 5th gear swap, and another person may suffer.

At highway speeds you'd probably be saving around 6-8% on the .65, and 7-9% on the 0.62. At the range 35-45mph you may be losing the same amount (depending on what RPM ranges you normally use).

If you only drive at highway speeds and never drive at lower speeds, then I'd say that payback is in the region of 20k miles with our fuel prices, or 40k miles with your cheap fuel. It would obviously be affected by the cost of installation etc - if you can do it yourself then payback would be much quicker.
 
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john.jackson9213

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Location
Miramar, Ca. (Think Top Gun)
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1996 B4V
That's hard to say. The trouble with a 5th gear swap is that for driving where you would have been in the original 5th, but are now in 4th, the fuel consumption goes up. So it depends on how much driving you do at highway speeds, and how much driving you do at the lower speed range. One person may have a significant benefit from the 5th gear swap, and another person may suffer.

At highway speeds you'd probably be saving around 6-8% on the .65, and 7-9% on the 0.62. At the range 35-45mph you may be losing the same amount (depending on what RPM ranges you normally use).

If you only drive at highway speeds and never drive at lower speeds, then I'd say that payback is in the region of 20k miles with our fuel prices, or 40k miles with your cheap fuel. It would obviously be affected by the cost of installation etc - if you can do it yourself then payback would be much quicker.
Based on my one test, I found a 5.3% gain when I switch from .756 to .622 5th gear.

Here is the link: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=311769
 

MikeMars

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I think that's consistent with the numbers from the BSFC chart given the a/c use on the return journey.
 

EuroTuning

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* If the person doing the install drops a component into the gearbox when attempting to do the 'in place' installation, they'd need to do the full disassembly instead in order to retrieve the component.
From my experience of many years I can assure you that if something falls into the gearbox, it doesn't mean you need to take the gearbox out of the car. It happened to us a few times and we retrieved the component by flexible extension with magnet. It works every time. An hour spent by retrieving the component by magnet is better than disassembling the gearbox and assembling it back...

 

MikeMars

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...
I am at 170K on the original clutch, so if 200K is a good average clutch lifespan, I may wait to start the install until I'm ready for the clutch (but I doubt I will be able to wait).
...
If you plan to change the clutch in the reasonably near future, then, yes, the sensible way to do this would be to combine the clutch change and the 'full disassembly' version of the gearbox kit install (since you'd have to be disassembling the gearbox anyway for the clutch).

From my experience of many years I can assure you that if something falls into the gearbox, it doesn't mean you need to take the gearbox out of the car. It happened to us a few times and we retrieved the component by flexible extension with magnet. It works every time. An hour spent by retrieving the component by magnet is better than disassembling the gearbox and assembling it back...
...
If something fell in, I'd probably take the opportunity to get the clutch changed, so the disassembly wouldn't be a big downside for me. But that's a good idea, and I'll suggest it to Vince so that he's aware that there is an alternative.

Incidentally, I note that some of the components need to be glued, how long does the glue take to fully harden? (I.e., is it safe to drive the car immediately, or should it be left for a while to allow the glue to cure?)
 
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MikeMars

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Matt-98AHU is installing my kit right now. He has the shift lever in, the shift tower back on and just put 6th gear in place! Transmission is still in the car.
So far, so good!
Sweet :) How long has it taken so far?
 

Johnny_Law

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2003 Jetta
I took some pictures of John.Jackson9213's as he asked me to post them. Every thing was pretty good but when joining the male end of the splines to the female end there was a bur as it would not assemble properly by hand. A simple filing, cleaning and freezing/heating will eliminate the problem. Or you could use a BFH :rolleyes:









 
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