6/10/05 updated*Newbies Cumulative Info Links

Ynot

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2003
Location
Las Vegas, NV
TDI
Golf, 2K GLS, Black
This is meant to be a brief and not all INCLUSIVE over view of Chipping, Injector nozzle air box questions.

For more Newbie information go here:

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=570711&an=0&page=0#570711

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showflat.php?C...&PHPSESSID=

Terms:
Stage I usually refers to a chip upgrade or nozzles only.
Stage II usually refers to chip AND nozzles.
Stage III usually refers to hybred or non-stock turbo, nozzles and chip. .

There are "Custom" programmed chips out now that use a number designation to identify it and it may or may not mean there is a non-stock turbo or nozzles in combination with them.

A boost gauge and Exhaust Temp. Gauge should be installed before any engine modifications. This gives you visible engine health indications and can save alot of heart ache later. It also helps when asking questions in the fourm as you can give data for others with experience to work with.

If you do a web search for "EGT" and diesel, you should find yourself a few vendors selling gauges. If not check the link farther down the page for parts.

Two places you do not really want to waste you money on in increasing your performance of the TDI is putting in a fancy intake system or exhaust system. The word mufflerectomy is used alot and that means the muffler is taken out and the exhaust is run straight. Not to loud for most, your turbo may spool up a little faster with this set up. The filter box gives good performance as it is, some take out the snow screen and some have removed the snorkle. The snow screen being clean or removed makes a good move due to the snorkle picking up cold air from behind the head light. One exception to this might be installing a "Old Man Intake" this may improve air flow to the turbo and has been reported by forum members to help cut down on excesive smoke.

"if you want to order a OMI email send an e-mail to,blubyu@ameritech.net, the price is set at ~$105 shipped in the U.S just tell him if you want it black or grey and with or without the ccv hole. if you have any questions he normally respondeds that day."


The best source for parts is to check the TDI club registerd vendor list and contact them for info and web site or here provided by Blackenedbora. http://forums.tdiclub.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=UBB35&Number=911797

http://www.lubricationspecialist.com/product_info.php?cPath=29&products_id=127



I understand that programmers USUALLY recommend nozzles first over chipping as you may need to chip again if you add nozzles later. The choice is yours to make.

Auto trans guys like me: you have from the factory smaller nozzles than the manual transmission cars and also come with an 11 mm fuel pump.

Manual trans you have from the factory larger nozzles than the automatic transmission cars, some modifiers will up grade to the 11mm pump or use a kit to get more fuel to feed the bigger holed upgraded nozzles since the manual transmission cars do not have the 11mm fuel pump.


Injectors with new nozzles should be pop tested as some may need to be shimmed to make them all work the same. Better to find this out before putting them in. Also they do have a break in period. Make sure you get quality and the proper copper seals to go with the injectors for the install. This will save you some grief later.

Chipping again check the TDI registered vendor list or do a web search. There are quite a few programmers out there now.

Nozzles alone will give a significant performance increase, but not mind bending and in some cases may need some program changes using a Vag-Com. The chip changes the stock program and dials in fuel, boost and some other things, so usually it is the most impressive first up grade. The biggest bang for the buck is a combination of nozzles and chip. What combination is a personal choice and should be discussed either with your nozzle vendor or the chip vendor. Of course the fourm will more than happily voice their oppions.

Finally, auto trans owners, do not worry, the FAQ is conservative in it's nozzle recommendation. I use the .215's with what is considered a stage II chip and my trans has not complained yet. There are beefing up things that should be done to the drive train, but that is another thread.

Manual trans cars should be aware you may experience clutch slippage at some point and the probability increases with more aggressive modding. Which makes sense I hope.

It has been reported by some that upgrading your FMIC helps to cut down turbo lag time and in some cases to nil. EGT also appear to drop significantly, but each will experience their own results based on design and implementation.

YOUR MILE PER GALLON WILL NOT BE AFFECTED BY A CHIP, NOZZLE UP GRADE! Milage is a function of how you drive. When you up grade, the power will over take you
, and the more you stomp the throttle, the more fuel you use. If you drive with sanity
, you will get as good if not better mpg.

Enjoy your TDI, we are a special group, let us enjoy our cars no matter what level of modification you are at.


Ynot
 

Smog

Registered Vendor
Joined
May 2, 2000
Location
Montreal, Canada
TDI
Jetta4 1999.5
Newbies/Basic Chip and Injector answers

This is meant to be a brief and not all inclusive over view of Chipping and Injector nozzle questions. This is a non-bias summation by me of the percived concensous of this forum. Those who do not agree will chime in I am sure.


2005*
The best source for nozzles is KERMA hands down, there are others and please check them out. There has not been one complaint against the Bosio nozzles. I use them myself.
For detailed info on them contact KERMA directly, brief summery:
Hey, don't forget me, I don't remember having any complain about the nozzles I sell. So please include me on your list, but everybody should note that I only sell the tdi nozzles to canadians ! (I also have D/TD nozzles from 1974 to 2003)
 

BleachedBora

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Oct 16, 2003
Location
Gresham, Oregon
TDI
'81 DMC-12, '12 Audi TT 418 hp/383 tq, '08 GL320 CDI 275 hp/448 wtq - '81 Caddy ALH, '04 Golf BEW 2" Lift, '85 HMMWV
Newbies/Basic Chip and Injector answers

Thanks Ynot--we needed this. If newbs need info on how to contact all chip/nozzle vendors, see this post.
That said, let's get this thread linked into the "starting post for Newbies" thread.
-BB
 

Big 1

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2003
Location
Richmond Hill, Ontario
Newbies/Basic Chip and Injector answers

everything I read in this post is biased. Best customer service = rocketchip? Thats purely based on personal opinion. This should not be put as a sticky for newbies IMO.
 

Beta

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 7, 2005
Location
Bozeman, Montana
TDI
87 syncro westy alh
Re: Newbies/Basic Chip and Injector answers

I agree with big 1. Endorsing select vendors based on forum opinion is poor. A good percentage of posts are written by people with little/no experience with what they are advocating/bashing. Personal opinions are great. Opinion representing community is not. There's more than one way to enhance any part of a car that is valid. Smart newbies will figure things out with a vendor list, a phone, and some elbow grease.
 

dsclark

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 14, 2002
Location
Carson City, NV
Re: Newbies/Basic Chip and Injector answers

"YOUR MILE PER GALLON WILL NOT BE AFFECTED BY A CHIP, NOZZLE UP GRADE!"
I disagree with that. My nozzle upgrade did affect my mpg- it went up.
WIth standard wett chip, my wife averaged averaged 44mpg. Last check, with the same chip and pp520 nozzles, mpg was 46mpg. We still have winter fuel here and 46mpg is the best my wife has ever gotten. So, I have to "blame" those nozzles!
 

sportsguy

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2005
Location
Seattle-ish
TDI
2014 Beetle DSG TDI
Re: Newbies/Basic Chip and Injector answers

Well, from this newb, YNOT, thanks.

This is the kind of basic "where to start info" I need. Sure, it's easy to call folks - but who the hell do I know to call?

As with everything on the Internet, you'll need to do your own research.

This is a great asset - I agree it should be sticky (mod?).

After informal all-night searching and reading, I think you summaries are accurate - given the source is these forums and votes counted.

Great work - if someone has a beef with this, they're missing your intent.
 

Beta

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 7, 2005
Location
Bozeman, Montana
TDI
87 syncro westy alh
Re: Newbies/Basic Chip and Injector answers

Lets say, for example, that tdiclub is a newspaper. If someone from the media took a survey of all positive media articles of the last presidential election, published the results based on quantity of replies, and claimed these results were the truth, not only of quantity of responses but also of issues, how objective would that newspaper be?
My point is not to question accuracy, simply that tdiclub's role is better suited to reporting as an open forum than wholy endorsing any corporate product. TDI club recommending a specific product/corp. as voiced by the majority is an endorsement of momentum, not scientific fact, and definately not any more subjective or useful than an opinionated post.
 

Ynot

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2003
Location
Las Vegas, NV
TDI
Golf, 2K GLS, Black
Re: Newbies/Basic Chip and Injector answers

I have removed all vendor references and stuck to mechanical information. I hope this is still helpful in cutting down on some of the repeat questions.

Ynot Happy motoring
 

Derrel H Green

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jun 2, 2002
Location
Murrieta, California
TDI
An '05 MBZ E-320 CDI (W-211) replaced the '10 TDI JSW
Updated *Newbies/Basic Chip, Injector and Air box answers

Stock nozzle sizes pre PD are as follows, these numbers were verified by an electron microscope measuring the actual holes of factory nozzles. Somewhere on the web these photos should still be posted. [Where?]
Auto trans guys like me: you have from the factory ~.15x nozzles actual Vs .17x spec and they are not that uniform from nozzle to nozzle. [?]
VW gets away with the smaller holes by using a 11 mm fuel pump. [Wrong!]
For some reason this is automatics only. [?]

Manual trans you have from the factory ~.17x nozzles actual Vs .18x spec and they are not that uniform from nozzle to nozzle. The manual trans VW's have a lower pressure fuel pump and some will up grade to the 11mm or more to get more fuel to feed the bigger holed nozzles. More can be done, but I won't go into it here. Ynot


There are some mistakes here that do need to be addressed. Where did you get this information?
It's too bad you cannot see those GeWilli pictures.
That would help clear this matter up for sure.

Automatic transmission cars are supposed to have 0.158 nm nozzles, but only have a true 0.135 nm.

One of the reasons that VW didn't just make all TDIs with the 11 mm pumps is that the 11 mm pump is considerably harder to turn, hence the earlier required replacement of the T/B, and I suspect that the 11 mm pump being harder to turn is also partially responsible for the approximate 20 percent reduction in fuel economy. Think about it!

VW went to the 11 mm pump to raise fuel pressure and to smaller nozzles
to reduce the fuel flow so as to be able to pass the EPA tests.

You're running actual 0.215s and a chip and you are not smoking? What your I Q reading?

I had PP 520s and an UPsolute chip in my automatic, and it smoked like an old coal burning locomotive
on a grade. Even when I dropped back to the PP357s, it would still smoke quite a bit.

Charlie, give me a hand here please.


 

dieseldorf

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 11, 2000
Location
MA
TDI
ex- 1996 wagon, ex-2000 Jetta
Updated *Newbies/Basic Chip, Injector and Air box answers

There are some mistakes here that do need to be addressed. Where did you get this information?
 

Ynot

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2003
Location
Las Vegas, NV
TDI
Golf, 2K GLS, Black
Updated *Newbies/Basic Chip, Injector and Air box answers

Thank you for pointing out the technical information that is incorrect. I don't think I did so bad if that is all you found. I am sure you could find more. Further more that info was given to me by a very respectable source over 2 years ago when I first started with my TDI and nozzles were just starting to be available. I did see GeWilli's site and the nozzle photos some time ago, maybe I do not remember the diam. designations correctly. From what I read here, I more than likly am in spec since the diam. seems to be less important than the spray pattern. Now I have no problem editing the info you pointed out. My intent is not mis-info, but to help cut down on repeat questions here.

My 2K Golf Automatic has an Up II chip programmed by Rene and sent to my local installer at that time in Calif., map B056 from Up I map, FF79. Bosio nozzles PP520's pop tested. My OMI is out now getting thermal coated, 3" CAI and 2.xx" exhaust with cat to a Flowmaster muffler. I add 3oz of CENTANE booster per fill up. NO SMOKE Until WOT and not much then. It smoked really bad with the Up I chip and PP520's when I first installed them. My IQ has not been changed from stock by me. Maybe I just got lucky.

Ynot
 

mkosem

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2003
Location
OH, US
TDI
2001 Golf TDi
Re: Updated *Newbies/Basic Chip, Injector and Air box answers

How does the flowmaster sound with a turbo?

--Matt
 

Ynot

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2003
Location
Las Vegas, NV
TDI
Golf, 2K GLS, Black
Re: Updated *Newbies/Basic Chip, Injector and Air box answers

I am not sure how to answer, since everyone thinks it sounds good, but describes it differently. My best stab is low and throaty. With my back seats up nothing, with them down it does come into the cabin, but so does tire noise. I like it. With my radio on low or med volumn it is unoticeable, even when accelerating hard. Of course unless your window is down , but I do not attract attention from bystanders.

Ynot
 

DerekKim

Active member
Joined
Apr 26, 2004
Location
Gulfport, MS US
Re: Updated *Newbies/Basic Chip, Injector and Air

I was looking to do an upsolute chip and a muflerectomy. I can fit on a DTM style tip right? Also how had is it to do the nozzle swap?
 

Duck0987

Well-known member
Joined
May 26, 2004
Location
Marietta, OH
TDI
Jetta '03 Silver
4/8/05 updated*Newbies/Basic Chip, Injector and Air box answers

A boost gauge and Exhaust Temp. Gauge should be installed before any engine modifications. This gives you visible engine health indications and can save alot of heart ache later.
I am just wonder what suggestions for mounting position and vendors for EGT and Boost gauges are suggest for A4 Jetta's. I've looked around and really can't find any posts specifically for the A4. Any links to photos of anyone elses setups would be appreciated.

Duck
 

BleachedBora

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Oct 16, 2003
Location
Gresham, Oregon
TDI
'81 DMC-12, '12 Audi TT 418 hp/383 tq, '08 GL320 CDI 275 hp/448 wtq - '81 Caddy ALH, '04 Golf BEW 2" Lift, '85 HMMWV
Re: 4/8/05 updated*Newbies/Basic Chip, Injector

See my sig, I have some options listed.
www.tmtuning.com has a pod for the steering column as well.
-BB
 

Kabin

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2004
Location
Valley of the sun
TDI
Jetta '04 PD TDI/Tip
Re: 4/8/05 updated*Newbies/Basic Chip, Injector

I searched but didn't find info on ECU realignment after sending your ECU off for a chip tune. Does anyone know a link? When is realignment necessary? What is the lowest form of Vag-com life (409.1 shareware?) necessary to realign?
 

BoosTDIt

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2003
Location
DC area - Fairfax,VA
TDI
The Last NA 2dr 5sp
Re: 4/8/05 updated*Newbies/Basic Chip, Injector

I searched but didn't find info on ECU realignment after sending your ECU off for a chip tune. Does anyone know a link? When is realignment necessary? What is the lowest form of Vag-com life (409.1 shareware?) necessary to realign?
That's something that you should've discussed with you're chiptuner of choice and if it's impossible for you to do it perhaps you could take an extra step in meeting pesonaly.Meaning that if you had no idea it would need it they should tell you that over the phone or email.


The second thing you could do and it's FREE... click on the link on top of the web-page where the titles are ...right underneath "Articles" sais VAG-Com List... it has a list of valid/active VAG-com users you can locate in your area... contact one of them for help.
 

Oil_Burner

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 2, 2000
Location
Issaquah, Washington, USA
Re: 4/8/05 updated*Newbies/Basic Chip, Injector

Im not going to disagree with people here, for the most part, except to say that everything you do to increase performance plays a small part in the package. That said, I did notice a hugh increase in how the car pulled at the upper RPM ranges after going to a 2.5 Techtonics SS exhaust. No cat no muffler. The car pulled much harder after the exhaust install. It's simply part of the improvement in the entire system.

Tom
 

Ynot

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2003
Location
Las Vegas, NV
TDI
Golf, 2K GLS, Black
Re: 4/8/05 updated*Newbies/Basic Chip, Injector

Tom,

That's all that matters! Some feel it, some do not. I have still been playing with a cai even though most believe the stock is best. It's good, but not effecient due to how the air has to cross the filter after entering the box. Any way, Enjoy!

Ynot
 

kpaske

Veteran Member
Joined
May 26, 2006
Location
Seattle, WA
TDI
2006 Jetta TDI
OK, there are some things I need clarification on guys. Since this is the "sticky for newbies", this would be a good place to answer because I'm sure others may have the same questions. I am asking specifically about the 05.5+ PD TDI motors, Auto tranny, AND, I intend to run BioDiesel at some point and time.

1.) It sounds like the most popular way to increase performance in a TDI is by flashing your ECU ("chipping") and by upgrading the nozzles. There are two popular chip flashes (the RocketChip and the Upsolute). I understand that they are both good products, but I'm interested in opinions for my particular application (06 PD running BioD). Would one be more suitable than the other? Pluses and Minuses?

2.) KermaTDI doesn't make the Sprint nozzles for the PD's, but instead sells injector kits. Can someone who has used them give me their overall impression and recommendation (stage I or "race" version), and has anyone had any experience running BioD with these? Why can't we just replace the nozzles like on previous model years?

3.) Do the DSG trannys have any issues connected with chipped TDI's with upgraded injectors? I understand that most manual's will need a clutch upgrade.

4.) Any issues in general about running BioD in a Stage II modded TDI versus stock?

Please, no BioD comments unless it pertains directly to these or other performance mods. I know all about the warranty issues and haven't decided whether I will heed the warnings or not. Eventually this car will definitely be running BioD in some proportion, I'm just trying to decide how compatible that will be with potential performance mods.
 

kpaske

Veteran Member
Joined
May 26, 2006
Location
Seattle, WA
TDI
2006 Jetta TDI
So I can chip, OR upgrade injectors, but not both? What about a tuning box with upgraded injectors?
 
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