deejaaa
Veteran Member
http://funksoulkitty.org/engineandtranny/http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=424062tranny/02j/assembly/assembly.html
http://www.mikegabriel.net/VW/bentl...n, and Final Drive/34 Manual Transmission.pdf
http://www.myturbodiesel.com/wiki/5...n-lower-gearing-on-a-vw-5-speed-transmission/
http://workshop-manuals.com/volkswa...tion/dismantling_and_assembling_output_shaft/
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=418897
02J EGR Manual transmission 3rd/4th gear issue
http://www.vwmotorsport.com/vwtech/gears/mt_02J_overhaul.pdf
http://supradave.com/tech/gearspeed/comparator.php
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
it started last week by popping out of gear while highway cruising. was willing to live with that, for a while, but it just got worse. driving home yesterday, it went in 5th for about a mile but that was it. when it was in position, it was grinding as if the clutch was out and i was forcing it in gear.
drove home in 4th, slow, 45 mph, made it 1 1/2 hours later, it was 60 miles.
read if trans was low on lube, 5th gets starved, causing wear. prob what happened in my case. new 5th gear sets are 700.00 and i could do that but the rest of the trans has over 250,000 miles and doesn't seem like a good move.
there are a lot of used trans on the local CL but are all gassers. wanted to get a 5th gear set from another member but since the trans went down hill so fast, i can't wait for tear-down and shipping.
another member closer has a trans from a TDI Golf. i will replace the whole trans with his. he gave me a good price. i don't have skills/time/patience/place to do it myself so i will be paying shop prices. he's a skilled VW man, did my TB, so it's in good hands. he will see if there is something else causing the probs.
when that is all said and done, i will tear into the old trans, look at the damage and research if i can replace 4th/5th gear to the 5 speed specs that *(info below)Cosmic Green has in his POLO tranny.
________________________________________________
here is all the info i have right now, most copied/pasted, on 02J trannies that found while researching, hope it helps:
Sounds like trans ran low on fluid, 5th gear's bad. Change 5th gear without removing trans, right under that cover. Will need 5th gear, 5th gear idler, all related pieces. Nice time to go taller 5th. 5th rides high in case, is outside main case in own little area. If lube gets low, it gets left out of splash cycle first. Need to replace 5th gear (will have worn out synchro teeth on it) and slider/blocker ring as well as synchro itself. It is not hard to do. Most wear likely on slider ring itself. Can only see after removed from 5th gear assembly.
Slider has 3 locking teeth on that lock in place to keep gear either engaged/disengaged. 3 locking teeth are held in place by 2 C clips(springs), one seen on outside, one on inside. If either C clip was not providing enough outward force on teeth then car wouldnt stay in gear.
---------------------contrary statement--------------------
I think he should replace 2 c clips and 3 locking teeth. Do syncho while in there as it will be cheap.
As stated before, you need slider part. Actual gears in a synchromesh trans are ALWAYS engaged, so they cannot "pop out", or there would be no teeth at all.
----------------------------------------------------------------
The part that is pushing away is slider. It's the ring that shift fork moves back and forth. However recommend replacement of gear since driving with worn slider will put undo wear on gear. Not angled teeth of gear but part driven by slider (where synchronizer meshes up).
.658 5th gear set.
On above ETKA picture will need #12, which is whole deal. A very common issue with all VW manuals, even old ones.
To fix it required replacement of every part in 5th gear area except shift fork and mounts for such.
new big & little 5th gears (little not required but suggested because they wear as a set)
new Selector assembly (Yes EXPENSIVE parts)
new Synchro
new bolts & washers. (they were new triple square ones also, be warned)
new gasket for endcap.
new Needle bearing for big 5th gear
about $650-675 was spent on parts..(just parts)
to go back all stock new parts, purchase following:
(11) synchronizer ring 02J 311 295 C
(12) Selector ring assembly including (13) & (14) 02a 311 303 E
(9) Bearing 02a 311 115 e
(10) Stock 34/45 big 5th gear 02a 311 158 e
(30) Stock 34/45 small 5th gear 02a 311 361 q
Transmission endcap gasket 02a 301 215 a
2x liters of G070 Gear oil.
if you are getting a different than stock gear set from another vendor, do not purchase item (10) or Item (30). Will also need smaller Item (15) washer to go with small gear, OR machine stock one down to fit properly.
Do not have those part numbers though.
IDparts .658 gear swap...
.658 5th Gear Set - 02Z311158A - IDParts.com
____$449.00_______
.658 5th Gear Set - 02Z311158A - IDParts.com.658 5th gear set for Volkswagen 02A and 02J transmissions. Set includes large gear (02Z 311 158A), small gear, (02Z 311 361A), and spring plate for the small gear....
View on www.idparts.com
Spring plate in listing is smaller washer referred to in reply.
Bora kit.
http://shopping.boraparts.com/produc...products_id=68
___$439.00_______________
Car must be level to fill. Fill plug is on front of trans, behind this metal line (in way of fill plug). Add fluid till it comes out hole.
check sychro by pushing it toward gear and measuring gap between brass teeth and gear teeth. not sure specs but compare it to other gears working good ....
-------------------------------
Summary of "Overdrive" Ratios (with part numbers)
http://www.vwt4forum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=33958
use syncromesh pensoil
https://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=126650&highlight=popping+5th
https://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=354689&highlight=popping+5th
http://longenterprises.com/remachined_sliders.htm
http://www.myturbodiesel.com/wiki/5...n-lower-gearing-on-a-vw-5-speed-transmission/
https://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=12165&highlight=popping+5th
------------------------------
Manual transmission fluid change how-to with pics
Before doing my transmission oil change, I did some searching of old threads to get an idea of what to do. Someone (GeWilli, I think) asked about pictures for a how-to .pdf, which it seems no one had, so I took some pictures. I haven't taken the time to find out how to make a .pdf, but here are the pictures that I've uploaded into the tdiclub picture site:
Start with a car that's still warm (so the oil flows better), put the front of the car up on jackstands, and remove the 10 (I think it's 10) torx screws that hold on the engine belly cover.
The transmission oil:
I saw an old post with a picture of a metal can of $30 VW gear oil (part# G 005 000, G50 SAE 75W-90 oil), and the dealer said that they could get it if I wanted it, but that this is what their computer said was the correct oil for all VW manual transmissions, and it's what they stocked. What they sold me was $15/liter, and required 2 (really 1-1/2) of them.
(EDIT: Rotated and notated picture; crudely but I don't know Photoshop that well yet) I picked up the 17mm hex key at Sears for US$9, but later at my local Auto Zone I saw a 3-pack of 1/2" drive hex bits (17mm/15mm/13mm) for US$8. Notice the bracket I took loose in the right lower corner of the picture; I had to loosen that so I could move the power steering line enough to get the allen wrench into the fill plug.
*Tip: Before draining the oil from the draing plug, make sure you can loosen the filler plug first. I'd be a bugger to drain the oil only to find you couldn't fill it. BIG Tip: Do NOT remove the fill plug as I have in this picture. The engineer in me thought it'd be best to have it open so that air could get in and it'd drain better. Boy oh boy did it drain. It didn't drain, it dumped. And splattered. So leave the fill plug in and it should drain in a bit more controlled fashion.
Sorry, I forgot to take a picture of it draining from the drain plug. Guess I was a bit flustered and busy cleaning up splattered tranny fluid that I forgot to snap a picture. But it'll drain out of the plug where the big allen wrench is in the above picture.
This is where my funnel-with-a-hose ended up, nicely wedged:
I used a small clip to keep the bottom end of the funnel's tube positioned so that about an inch (25mm for you Canucks) of the hose is inside the transmission:
The first liter you can pour in fairly quickly. Pour in about 1/3 of the second liter and then slow down. Eventually you'll get a trickle like this:
Note: I had my car up on 4 jackstands since I was doing some other work, so the car was approximately level. If you've only jacked up the front end, I'd suggest adding the first liter of oil, then lowering the car and adding the rest so that the oil level is correct. Keep the drain pan underneath to catch the new, overflowing oil.
A pretty easy do-it-yourselfer. I'm not sure what the manual transmission oil change interval should be, and from the old threads I perused earlier, I don't think there is one. I intended to do mine at 150k, but it ended up at 154k. Given how easy this was, I should have done it at 100k.
This is the drain plug:
PS: fill plug is on front side of gearbox, facing radiator. drain plug is on bottom.17 MM allen wrench (socket) gets drain/fill plugs out on Jettas, remove bolt for bracket holding p/s line running in front of trans fill, push P/S line out of way, before getting allen socket into fill plug.
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=115899&highlight=02j&page=2
----------------------------------
*Cosmic Green info:
Tall ratio 5-speed install results
-----------(02R Gearbox Codes)------------------
EWT code 5-speed, EU Polo. Comes from Czech. Piece needs shaved to clear mk4 subframe. Seller does it all, gives it ready to install. Only thing, swap output flanges to mate to smaller diameter cv's. Cost CA 750.00.
Final drive 60:19 = 3,158
1st gear 34:09 = 3,778
2nd gear 33:16 = 2,063
3rd gear 30:23 = 1,304
4th gear 28:31 = 0,903
5th gear 28:40 = 0,700
Said to fit 2000-2006.
RPMs, before-after:
4th gear old - 80 km/h @ 2,200 r.p.m.
4th gear new - 85 km/h @ 2,000 r.p.m.
5th gear old - 100 km/h @ 2,100 r.p.m.
110 km/h @ 2300 r.p.m.
120 km/h @ 2,500 r.p.m.
5th gear new - 100 km/h @ 1,800 r.p.m.
110 km/h @ 2,050 r.p.m.
120 km/h @ 2,300 r.p.m.
140 km/h @ 2,600 r.p.m.
First readings taken early, so may be off.
160 km/h has to be exceeded before seeing 3,000 r.p.m.
4th gear more pleasant in town than old ratio, no tempts to select 5th on faster city streets.
On highway, 85 km/h is right speed to select 5th, unless going steady speed on level ground. Otherwise revs too low.
On highways it seems noticeably quieter.
No impressions of less power, TDI's torque pulls strong from low revs like always.
Bolted right in (re-used shifter counterweight/halfshaft flanges from old tranny, both were "one bolt" swaps). A minor mod to old tranny mount required: one of three bolts didn't line up; quick and easy with drill.
Trans from Chris in London, imports used VW parts from Europe. 519-777-6033 is number.
_______________________________________
"02J"
Code-EBJ,EGR App-(TDI)-MKIV
1st-3.778
2nd-2.118
3rd-1.360
4th-0.971
5th-0.756
R&P-3.389
=========================
EWW,FBY,FCF -DZC,EHC,EGF VR6 Golf/Jetta IV
3.625
2.071
1.474
1.038
0.844
R&P-3.389
=======================
DJ's
1st-3.778
2nd-2.118
3rd-0.971
4th-0.700
5th-0.658
R&P-3.389
========================
EWT
1st-3.778
2nd-2.063
3rd-1.304
4th-0.903
5th-0.700
R&P-3.158
========================
http://www.skodafabiaclub.com/technikaiinfok/muszaki_leirasok/SSP_032_2.pdf
http://www.zelek.com/diagram_charts/diagramlist.htm
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=411933
http://www.mikegabriel.net/VW/bentl...n, and Final Drive/34 Manual Transmission.pdf
http://www.myturbodiesel.com/wiki/5...n-lower-gearing-on-a-vw-5-speed-transmission/
http://workshop-manuals.com/volkswa...tion/dismantling_and_assembling_output_shaft/
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=418897
02J EGR Manual transmission 3rd/4th gear issue http://www.vwmotorsport.com/vwtech/gears/mt_02J_overhaul.pdf
http://supradave.com/tech/gearspeed/comparator.php
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
it started last week by popping out of gear while highway cruising. was willing to live with that, for a while, but it just got worse. driving home yesterday, it went in 5th for about a mile but that was it. when it was in position, it was grinding as if the clutch was out and i was forcing it in gear.
drove home in 4th, slow, 45 mph, made it 1 1/2 hours later, it was 60 miles.
read if trans was low on lube, 5th gets starved, causing wear. prob what happened in my case. new 5th gear sets are 700.00 and i could do that but the rest of the trans has over 250,000 miles and doesn't seem like a good move.
there are a lot of used trans on the local CL but are all gassers. wanted to get a 5th gear set from another member but since the trans went down hill so fast, i can't wait for tear-down and shipping.
another member closer has a trans from a TDI Golf. i will replace the whole trans with his. he gave me a good price. i don't have skills/time/patience/place to do it myself so i will be paying shop prices. he's a skilled VW man, did my TB, so it's in good hands. he will see if there is something else causing the probs.
when that is all said and done, i will tear into the old trans, look at the damage and research if i can replace 4th/5th gear to the 5 speed specs that *(info below)Cosmic Green has in his POLO tranny.
________________________________________________
here is all the info i have right now, most copied/pasted, on 02J trannies that found while researching, hope it helps:
Sounds like trans ran low on fluid, 5th gear's bad. Change 5th gear without removing trans, right under that cover. Will need 5th gear, 5th gear idler, all related pieces. Nice time to go taller 5th. 5th rides high in case, is outside main case in own little area. If lube gets low, it gets left out of splash cycle first. Need to replace 5th gear (will have worn out synchro teeth on it) and slider/blocker ring as well as synchro itself. It is not hard to do. Most wear likely on slider ring itself. Can only see after removed from 5th gear assembly.
Slider has 3 locking teeth on that lock in place to keep gear either engaged/disengaged. 3 locking teeth are held in place by 2 C clips(springs), one seen on outside, one on inside. If either C clip was not providing enough outward force on teeth then car wouldnt stay in gear.
---------------------contrary statement--------------------
I think he should replace 2 c clips and 3 locking teeth. Do syncho while in there as it will be cheap.
As stated before, you need slider part. Actual gears in a synchromesh trans are ALWAYS engaged, so they cannot "pop out", or there would be no teeth at all.
----------------------------------------------------------------
The part that is pushing away is slider. It's the ring that shift fork moves back and forth. However recommend replacement of gear since driving with worn slider will put undo wear on gear. Not angled teeth of gear but part driven by slider (where synchronizer meshes up).
.658 5th gear set.
On above ETKA picture will need #12, which is whole deal. A very common issue with all VW manuals, even old ones.
To fix it required replacement of every part in 5th gear area except shift fork and mounts for such.
new big & little 5th gears (little not required but suggested because they wear as a set)
new Selector assembly (Yes EXPENSIVE parts)
new Synchro
new bolts & washers. (they were new triple square ones also, be warned)
new gasket for endcap.
new Needle bearing for big 5th gear
about $650-675 was spent on parts..(just parts)
to go back all stock new parts, purchase following:
(11) synchronizer ring 02J 311 295 C
(12) Selector ring assembly including (13) & (14) 02a 311 303 E
(9) Bearing 02a 311 115 e
(10) Stock 34/45 big 5th gear 02a 311 158 e
(30) Stock 34/45 small 5th gear 02a 311 361 q
Transmission endcap gasket 02a 301 215 a
2x liters of G070 Gear oil.
if you are getting a different than stock gear set from another vendor, do not purchase item (10) or Item (30). Will also need smaller Item (15) washer to go with small gear, OR machine stock one down to fit properly.
Do not have those part numbers though.
IDparts .658 gear swap...
.658 5th Gear Set - 02Z311158A - IDParts.com
____$449.00_______
View on www.idparts.com
Preview by Yahoo
Spring plate in listing is smaller washer referred to in reply.
Bora kit.
http://shopping.boraparts.com/produc...products_id=68
___$439.00_______________
Car must be level to fill. Fill plug is on front of trans, behind this metal line (in way of fill plug). Add fluid till it comes out hole.
check sychro by pushing it toward gear and measuring gap between brass teeth and gear teeth. not sure specs but compare it to other gears working good ....
-------------------------------
Summary of "Overdrive" Ratios (with part numbers)
- 30:39 = 0.769 (02A 311 361 N : 02A 311 158 L)
- 34:45 = 0.756 (02A 311 361 Q : 02A 311 158 E)
- 29:39 = 0.744 (02A 311 361 AD : 02A 311 158 AE)
- 33:46 = 0.717 (02A 311 361 M : 02A 311 158 R)
- 28:40 = 0.700 (02A 311 361 AM : 02A 311 158 AF)
- 32:47 = 0.681 (02D 311 361 : 02D 311 158)
- 27:41 = 0.658 (02Z 311 361 A : 02Z 311 158 A)
- 23:37 = 0.622 (02Z 311 361 : 02Z 311 158)
http://www.vwt4forum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=33958
use syncromesh pensoil
https://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=126650&highlight=popping+5th
https://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=354689&highlight=popping+5th
http://longenterprises.com/remachined_sliders.htm
http://www.myturbodiesel.com/wiki/5...n-lower-gearing-on-a-vw-5-speed-transmission/
https://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=12165&highlight=popping+5th
------------------------------
Before doing my transmission oil change, I did some searching of old threads to get an idea of what to do. Someone (GeWilli, I think) asked about pictures for a how-to .pdf, which it seems no one had, so I took some pictures. I haven't taken the time to find out how to make a .pdf, but here are the pictures that I've uploaded into the tdiclub picture site:
Start with a car that's still warm (so the oil flows better), put the front of the car up on jackstands, and remove the 10 (I think it's 10) torx screws that hold on the engine belly cover.
The transmission oil:
I saw an old post with a picture of a metal can of $30 VW gear oil (part# G 005 000, G50 SAE 75W-90 oil), and the dealer said that they could get it if I wanted it, but that this is what their computer said was the correct oil for all VW manual transmissions, and it's what they stocked. What they sold me was $15/liter, and required 2 (really 1-1/2) of them.
(EDIT: Rotated and notated picture; crudely but I don't know Photoshop that well yet) I picked up the 17mm hex key at Sears for US$9, but later at my local Auto Zone I saw a 3-pack of 1/2" drive hex bits (17mm/15mm/13mm) for US$8. Notice the bracket I took loose in the right lower corner of the picture; I had to loosen that so I could move the power steering line enough to get the allen wrench into the fill plug.
*Tip: Before draining the oil from the draing plug, make sure you can loosen the filler plug first. I'd be a bugger to drain the oil only to find you couldn't fill it. BIG Tip: Do NOT remove the fill plug as I have in this picture. The engineer in me thought it'd be best to have it open so that air could get in and it'd drain better. Boy oh boy did it drain. It didn't drain, it dumped. And splattered. So leave the fill plug in and it should drain in a bit more controlled fashion.
Sorry, I forgot to take a picture of it draining from the drain plug. Guess I was a bit flustered and busy cleaning up splattered tranny fluid that I forgot to snap a picture. But it'll drain out of the plug where the big allen wrench is in the above picture.
This is where my funnel-with-a-hose ended up, nicely wedged:
I used a small clip to keep the bottom end of the funnel's tube positioned so that about an inch (25mm for you Canucks) of the hose is inside the transmission:
The first liter you can pour in fairly quickly. Pour in about 1/3 of the second liter and then slow down. Eventually you'll get a trickle like this:
Note: I had my car up on 4 jackstands since I was doing some other work, so the car was approximately level. If you've only jacked up the front end, I'd suggest adding the first liter of oil, then lowering the car and adding the rest so that the oil level is correct. Keep the drain pan underneath to catch the new, overflowing oil.
A pretty easy do-it-yourselfer. I'm not sure what the manual transmission oil change interval should be, and from the old threads I perused earlier, I don't think there is one. I intended to do mine at 150k, but it ended up at 154k. Given how easy this was, I should have done it at 100k.
This is the drain plug:
PS: fill plug is on front side of gearbox, facing radiator. drain plug is on bottom.17 MM allen wrench (socket) gets drain/fill plugs out on Jettas, remove bolt for bracket holding p/s line running in front of trans fill, push P/S line out of way, before getting allen socket into fill plug.
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=115899&highlight=02j&page=2
----------------------------------
*Cosmic Green info:
Tall ratio 5-speed install results
-----------(02R Gearbox Codes)------------------
- EWT, GGU - 28:40 = 0.700 as per TDI
- EWR, GGV, HET - 34:45 = 0.756 as per T4b DCV, DJZ, DQJ, DQL, EVV, EVY)
EWT code 5-speed, EU Polo. Comes from Czech. Piece needs shaved to clear mk4 subframe. Seller does it all, gives it ready to install. Only thing, swap output flanges to mate to smaller diameter cv's. Cost CA 750.00.
Final drive 60:19 = 3,158
1st gear 34:09 = 3,778
2nd gear 33:16 = 2,063
3rd gear 30:23 = 1,304
4th gear 28:31 = 0,903
5th gear 28:40 = 0,700
Said to fit 2000-2006.
RPMs, before-after:
4th gear old - 80 km/h @ 2,200 r.p.m.
4th gear new - 85 km/h @ 2,000 r.p.m.
5th gear old - 100 km/h @ 2,100 r.p.m.
110 km/h @ 2300 r.p.m.
120 km/h @ 2,500 r.p.m.
5th gear new - 100 km/h @ 1,800 r.p.m.
110 km/h @ 2,050 r.p.m.
120 km/h @ 2,300 r.p.m.
140 km/h @ 2,600 r.p.m.
First readings taken early, so may be off.
160 km/h has to be exceeded before seeing 3,000 r.p.m.
4th gear more pleasant in town than old ratio, no tempts to select 5th on faster city streets.
On highway, 85 km/h is right speed to select 5th, unless going steady speed on level ground. Otherwise revs too low.
On highways it seems noticeably quieter.
No impressions of less power, TDI's torque pulls strong from low revs like always.
Bolted right in (re-used shifter counterweight/halfshaft flanges from old tranny, both were "one bolt" swaps). A minor mod to old tranny mount required: one of three bolts didn't line up; quick and easy with drill.
Trans from Chris in London, imports used VW parts from Europe. 519-777-6033 is number.
_______________________________________
"02J"
Code-EBJ,EGR App-(TDI)-MKIV
1st-3.778
2nd-2.118
3rd-1.360
4th-0.971
5th-0.756
R&P-3.389
=========================
EWW,FBY,FCF -DZC,EHC,EGF VR6 Golf/Jetta IV
3.625
2.071
1.474
1.038
0.844
R&P-3.389
=======================
DJ's
1st-3.778
2nd-2.118
3rd-0.971
4th-0.700
5th-0.658
R&P-3.389
========================
EWT
1st-3.778
2nd-2.063
3rd-1.304
4th-0.903
5th-0.700
R&P-3.158
========================
http://www.skodafabiaclub.com/technikaiinfok/muszaki_leirasok/SSP_032_2.pdf
http://www.zelek.com/diagram_charts/diagramlist.htm
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=411933
Last edited:
