5HP19FL GMR

5industries

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You need a torque converter. If you keep driving it, it will lunch the transmission. It may not ever pass all the readiness like that.

The TCM has a variable lockup strategy... been so long since I bothered to look at that data block set I cannot remember exactly, but the modulated stage is rarely used... most of the time the converter is locked up in all the forward gears except I think first. The diesel doesn't need the TC's torque multiplier much... it already has a small V8's worth of torque at low RPMs.

Getting ready to do another one here... Volkswagen has obsoleted the part, so no more new ones. Erikkson seems to be the only ones capable of rebuilding them, this will be my second one of theirs. All the rest had a 100% failure rate (except the new Sachs/ZF ones from the dealer, obviously).

I wouldn't overthink it too much.
Thanks for the input.

I'm already moving the ball forward on replacing the converter. Transtar said they would refund me the money because I've had two fail already. My plan is to have an OEM converter rebuilt by Erickson Industries.

I would also like a clarification on something you said. Did you say the torque converter fault code could or is effecting my Comprehensive Readiness?
 

oilhammer

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outside St Louis, MO
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There are just too many to list....
I am not 100% certain, but usually the readiness (in general, not VAG-specific) will not set if any MIL-request DTC is pending on that drive cycle. And the P0741 is a MIL-request DTC.

Now, if the car landed in that gray area where all the readiness was already set, THEN the DTC flagged, but had not yet gone to MIL-request (2-trip detection logic, so you'd be on your first trip still, and the MIL had not yet come on) then the car would pass the test.

All the OBD testing looks for is the generic OBD2 side stuff: readiness and MIL function. That's pretty much it. Once you clear a DTC, then the car needs to go through the whole process again to get all the readiness set.

I would have checked readiness on this car here (as it had the same DTC), but it is already apart.

I hope I am making it clear.... you can have readiness set, AND a DTC present.

OBD2 specifics are not very well published with German cars, because it is a bit of an afterthought.... Europe was still using EOBD (and often the cars had the DLC in a different location) up until around 2003. The whole OBD2 thing is not the "first" core way that the EDC16 system thinks, it is an added on afterthought layer, and is not consistent with all the engines. Ford (and others) had similar teething issues with this sort of thing. The EEC5 Ford system through about 2005 was mostly just their old EEC4 control system with OBD2 stuff layered on top. Which is why, just like Volkswagens, you can get entirely different or more numerous DTCs using the manufacturer type scan tool using the manufacturer layered OBD than you can with any generic stuff. It's quite frustrating.
 

5industries

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I am not 100% certain, but usually the readiness (in general, not VAG-specific) will not set if any MIL-request DTC is pending on that drive cycle. And the P0741 is a MIL-request DTC.

Now, if the car landed in that gray area where all the readiness was already set, THEN the DTC flagged, but had not yet gone to MIL-request (2-trip detection logic, so you'd be on your first trip still, and the MIL had not yet come on) then the car would pass the test.

All the OBD testing looks for is the generic OBD2 side stuff: readiness and MIL function. That's pretty much it. Once you clear a DTC, then the car needs to go through the whole process again to get all the readiness set.

I would have checked readiness on this car here (as it had the same DTC), but it is already apart.

I hope I am making it clear.... you can have readiness set, AND a DTC present.

OBD2 specifics are not very well published with German cars, because it is a bit of an afterthought.... Europe was still using EOBD (and often the cars had the DLC in a different location) up until around 2003. The whole OBD2 thing is not the "first" core way that the EDC16 system thinks, it is an added on afterthought layer, and is not consistent with all the engines. Ford (and others) had similar teething issues with this sort of thing. The EEC5 Ford system through about 2005 was mostly just their old EEC4 control system with OBD2 stuff layered on top. Which is why, just like Volkswagens, you can get entirely different or more numerous DTCs using the manufacturer type scan tool using the manufacturer layered OBD than you can with any generic stuff. It's quite frustrating.
I recently bought this car and haven't had a chance to smog it yet. When I got the car home from the dealer it had developed an issue with the balance shaft and the transmission so I started pulling everything apart and didn't have a VCDS yet, so I dont know if the comprehensive readiness was ever set to passed. Obviously when I started the repairs I did so with the battery disconnected and that reset everything. By the time the trans build was finished I had access to the VCDS and thats when I noticed the comprehensive readiness issue.

The short answer is the comprehensive readiness may have been set to pass before I started all my repairs but I had no way of knowing. All other monitors are showing passed.
 
Last edited:

5industries

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Thanks to MEgearHead I was able to have a OEM torque converter rebuilt by Ericksons and after installing that my lockup issues are now gone.

I'm still struggling with the readiness though. I've driven 3 cycles with no codes and the new converter installed and my comprehensive readiness isn't set.
 

MEgearhead

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How far/long have you driven it? It takes a bit, but usually within about 150 miles. Just be glad it's not a 3.0 TDI. They can take over 1000 miles.
 

oilhammer

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outside St Louis, MO
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There are just too many to list....
Yeah, that may not do it. You may also want to make sure the ECU sees it getting all the way up to temp.
 

5industries

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Yeah, that may not do it. You may also want to make sure the ECU sees it getting all the way up to temp.
Today I confirmed it was getting up too 190*f coolant temp. As of today it's been through 5 drive cycles of 25miles each with 8hours+ cool down time.
 

oilhammer

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There are just too many to list....
Ok, just wanted to make sure you were not just going by the gauge. Which has its own input, albeit through the same part. The CTS has two completely separate circuits in it. One can fail while the other one works fine.

I have to drive a lot of cars home to get readiness to set, which is 100 miles round trip. You may want to verify the EGR is working.

Do this:

Drive the car, get it up to temp (you can graph the coolant temp value if you like. When it won't get any hotter, drive for another ~10 minutes, then you know it is all likely as hot as it will get).

Then stop, and switch over to the EGR measuring group, where you'll see actual vs. requested. At idle, after running the car, those two values should match each other pretty closely.

Continue to watch this, let it idle, and after 5-10 minutes (usually 5 is plenty) of idle time, the EGR should switch off. When it does, the pitch of the engine will change (it will get slightly more "diesel" sounding), and the MAF value should jump way up, because now all the air going into the engine intake is being pulled through the MAF. Maybe a 200-300 change, going off memory, but it should be pretty obvious. Rev the engine once, let it return to idle, and the EGR should come back on, and go back to matching.
 

5industries

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I dont know if it helps but I did post a log of a WOT pull while monitoring MAF and EGR a few posts above.

I'm planning on following your instructions after work today to check EGR.
 

MEgearhead

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Go to DMV and get a (or another) stupid one day drive it to a smog station pass. Then after verifying the EGR is working, take a day and "drive it to various smog stations" at the edges of the closest metropolitan area. Stop for lunch and for an iced tea a couple times along the way. When you get close to home you should be able to actually stop at a smog station, pay their ridiculous $75 fee because it's a diesel even though it's half the work of most of the gasser's and pass. I used to live in the people's republic of California and had a very similar experience.
 

5industries

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Ok, just wanted to make sure you were not just going by the gauge. Which has its own input, albeit through the same part. The CTS has two completely separate circuits in it. One can fail while the other one works fine.

I have to drive a lot of cars home to get readiness to set, which is 100 miles round trip. You may want to verify the EGR is working.

Do this:

Drive the car, get it up to temp (you can graph the coolant temp value if you like. When it won't get any hotter, drive for another ~10 minutes, then you know it is all likely as hot as it will get).

Then stop, and switch over to the EGR measuring group, where you'll see actual vs. requested. At idle, after running the car, those two values should match each other pretty closely.

Continue to watch this, let it idle, and after 5-10 minutes (usually 5 is plenty) of idle time, the EGR should switch off. When it does, the pitch of the engine will change (it will get slightly more "diesel" sounding), and the MAF value should jump way up, because now all the air going into the engine intake is being pulled through the MAF. Maybe a 200-300 change, going off memory, but it should be pretty obvious. Rev the engine once, let it return to idle, and the EGR should come back on, and go back to matching.
I can't find the measuring block that will show desired vs actual EGR duty cycle. Do you mean "specified" vs "actual" mass air flow values that also includes EGR duty cycle in the fourth column of the measuring block?
 

5industries

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Code:
Wednesday,21,September,2022,15:20:18:12755-VCID:2F3B1ED2BB0E51434E9-5160,VCDS Version: Release 22.9.0 (x64),Data version: 20220830 DS341.0
038 997 016 T,,R4 2.0L EDC G000AG  0314,

,Group A:,'003,,,,Group B:, Not Running,,,,Group C:, Not Running
,,Engine Speed,Mass Air Flow,Mass Air Flow,EGR,,,,,,,,,,
,TIME,(G28),(specified),(actual),Duty Cycle,TIME,,,,,TIME,,,,
Marker,STAMP, /min, mg/str, mg/str, %,STAMP,,,,,STAMP,,,,
,62.84,861,295.0,435.0,100.6,,,,,,,,,,
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,76.00,1344,190.0,405.0,15.0,,,,,,,,,,
,76.26,1008,220.0,215.0,32.7,,,,,,,,,,
,76.53,882,255.0,235.0,78.1,,,,,,,,,,
,76.80,861,270.0,280.0,82.9,,,,,,,,,,
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,77.61,861,280.0,275.0,85.2,,,,,,,,,,
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,117.61,861,290.0,305.0,86.8,,,,,,,,,,
,117.89,861,290.0,295.0,86.4,,,,,,,,,,
,118.16,861,290.0,285.0,86.0,,,,,,,,,,
,118.44,861,295.0,290.0,86.8,,,,,,,,,,
,118.71,861,290.0,285.0,86.8,,,,,,,,,,
,118.98,861,290.0,290.0,88.0,,,,,,,,,,
,119.25,861,290.0,300.0,87.6,,,,,,,,,,
,119.51,861,290.0,290.0,85.6,,,,,,,,,,
,119.78,861,290.0,285.0,86.0,,,,,,,,,,
,120.05,861,295.0,280.0,86.0,,,,,,,,,,
,120.31,861,290.0,285.0,87.2,,,,,,,,,,
,120.58,861,285.0,285.0,87.2,,,,,,,,,,
,120.85,861,295.0,300.0,88.4,,,,,,,,,,
,121.11,861,295.0,290.0,87.6,,,,,,,,,,
,121.38,861,295.0,300.0,87.2,,,,,,,,,,
,121.66,861,295.0,290.0,86.8,,,,,,,,,,
,121.92,861,290.0,295.0,86.4,,,,,,,,,,
,122.19,861,290.0,295.0,87.2,,,,,,,,,,
,122.46,861,290.0,285.0,88.0,,,,,,,,,,
,122.72,861,285.0,290.0,86.8,,,,,,,,,,
Code:
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I think I was able to replicate what you suggested
 

5industries

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 30, 2022
Location
USA CA
TDI
BHW
Go to DMV and get a (or another) stupid one day drive it to a smog station pass. Then after verifying the EGR is working, take a day and "drive it to various smog stations" at the edges of the closest metropolitan area. Stop for lunch and for an iced tea a couple times along the way. When you get close to home you should be able to actually stop at a smog station, pay their ridiculous $75 fee because it's a diesel even though it's half the work of most of the gasser's and pass. I used to live in the people's republic of California and had a very similar experience.
My daily commute to work is 40miles each way (5 miles city plus 35 miles highway).So daily the car does the trip both ways and fully cools down between trips. I finished the torque converter install this Sunday and did a 40 mile round trip test drive and then started my daily commute on the following Monday. So as of today I've done 3 commutes to work plus the 40mile test drive.

If everything is working properly should it have pushed a pass comprehensive readiness?
 
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5industries

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 30, 2022
Location
USA CA
TDI
BHW
I found this on smogtips.com. Does this sound accurate for a TDI BHW Passat?

How To Perform Volkswagen Passat Drive Cycle?
My Volkswagen Passat's check engine light was on and I took the car to get all the trouble codes it was telling me repaired. When my car was being worked on, the mechanic found that my ECM cord was ripped up by squirrels. They replaced it but now it needs to be reprogrammed. Could it still pass the smog test even if my computer needs to be reprogrammed? They mentioned something about a Drive Cycle. Thank you.
Answer:

We believe what the smog technician is referring to is the OBD "Emission Monitors" needing to be reset; which can only occur by driving your VW for approximately 200-300 miles and over the course of a few days. Without the emission monitors being Ready/Complete, the vehicle can not pass the smog test.
Each emission monitor (of which there are six) require specific operating conditions before the monitor test is initiated. In most cases, the monitors should run during normal vehicle operation. However, due to different driving habits, the criteria required to run a monitor may not always be met. By following the Volkswagen Passat drive cycle below all emission monitors will run. The Volkswagen Passat drive cycle must be followed accurately.
How to Perform a Volkswagen Passat Drive Cycle
Take extra caution when performing the drive cycle on public roadways. Perform the drive cycle at your own risk. You may choose to have a Volkswagen dealer or repair shop complete monitor testing while your VW is stationary via the use of a scan tool. An advanced scan tool will have the capability to command your VW's engine control module (ECM) to run readiness code diagnostic tests in a special operational mode. If these tests run successfully, all eight readiness monitors will be set to “ready”, and your VW will not need to be driven through a drive cycle.

The VW OBD-II drive cycle is an eight-step process. An explanation of each step is provided below. Total drive cycle time is 12 minutes.
NOTE: Do not leave the key on prior to the cold start or the oxygen sensor (O2S) heater monitor may not run.
Step 1: Cold Start — The ECM determines the presence of a cold start by comparing the engine coolant temperature to the ambient air temperature during startup. The engine is considered cold when:
• Engine coolant temperature is below 122°F.
• Engine coolant and intake air temperatures are within 11°F of each other at startup. During this period, the O2S heater, misfire, AIR, fuel system, and EVAP monitors run.
Step 2: Idle 2 1/2 Minutes — Turn the air conditioning (A/C) and headlights on to help the misfire monitor—the additional electrical loads help even out combustion pulses. During this period, the O2S heater, AIR, EVAP, misfire, and possibly fuel system (if operating in closed loop) monitors run.
Step 3: Accelerate — Prior to accelerating, turn off the A/C and headlights (if you had them on during step 2). Open the throttle halfway until you reach 55 mph. During acceleration, the misfire, fuel system, and EVAP monitors run.
Step 4: Steady State Cruise 3 Minutes — During this portion of the cycle, the O2S, AIR, EGR, EVAP, misfire, and fuel system monitors run.
Step 5: Decelerate — Gradually coast down to 20 mph without applying the brakes. Also, on manual transmission vehicles, remain in high gear and do not press the clutch. During this period, the EGR, EVAP, and fuel system monitors run.
Step 6: Accelerate—Apply ¾ throttle until reaching 60 MPH. During acceleration, the misfire, fuel system, and EVAP monitors run.
Step 7: Steady State Cruise 5 Minutes — During this period, the CAT, O2S, AIR, EGR, EVAP, misfire, and fuel system monitors run.
Step 8: Decelerate — Gradually coast down to 0 mph without applying the brakes. Also, on manual transmission vehicles, remain in high gear and do not press the clutch. During this portion of the Drive Cycle, the EGR, EVAP, and fuel system monitors run.
NOTE: If the CAT is marginal and the battery was disconnected prior to the drive cycle, it may take up to five separate drive cycles in order to determine the state of the catalytic converter.
posted by SmogTips Support 07-03-2018​
 

MEgearhead

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2016
Location
Virginia
TDI
B5.5, 4L, 4G
That looks like a gas driving cycle. When I looked before, I found a bulletin for tdi's (actually for a BEW). I'll try to find the number. It's mostly useless as trying to meet all the requirements is impossible on most roads today. I just keep driving them until they set. But, here is a summarized version for an automatic anyway. (I don't take credit for it as it was from another member but I can't remember):

From a cold start.
Switch ignition on and wait 5 seconds.
Start engine and run at idle for 45 seconds.
Perform the following road test:
Drive until coolant temperature is at least 85 ° C.
Drive for 20 seconds in "D" on a level driving surface at a constant vehicle speed with an engine speed of 1700 to 1900 RPM.
Accelerate vehicle to 100 km/h.
Drive for 2 minutes in "D" on a level driving surface at a constant vehicle speed of 100 km/h (no deceleration).
Then from 100 km/h, decelerate (do not brake) in "D" to 900 RPM.
Park vehicle and let engine run at idle for 3 minutes. (Accelerator pedal must not be operated during this time.)
Switch ignition off.
Switch ignition on again.
Switch ignition off and let engine cool to below 35 ° C.
Start engine and run at idle 45 seconds.
Perform a road test again:
Drive for 20 seconds in "D" on a level driving surface at a constant vehicle speed with an engine speed of 1700 to 1900 RPM.
Accelerate vehicle to 100 km/h.
Drive for 2 minutes in "D" on a level driving surface at a constant vehicle speed of 100 km/h (no deceleration).
Then from 100 km/h, decelerate (do not brake) in "D" to 900 RPM.
Park vehicle and let engine run at idle for 3 minutes. (Accelerator pedal must not be operated during this time.)
Check the readiness and repeat if any are 0.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
The gas engines (most of them, including all those sold in the 2001.5+ Passats) let you manually set readiness sitting still. So I'm not sure I'd even bother with that. For reasons unknown to me, and maybe the folks at ross-tech know, none of the TDIs allow for this. It seems like it would be stupid easy to have, though, given there is hardly anything to actually do on the VE and PDs, but...

Be thankful it is not a CR, those silly things can take weeks to set, because in order for the stupid DPF to set, a full regen has to occur, and often times the whole reason to have to set it was because the DPF was bad... and a new DPF takes a while to even need a full regen.
 

5industries

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 30, 2022
Location
USA CA
TDI
BHW
Yes they set yesterday. It seems like whatever remaining tests the car needed to complete it was able to do on one of those drive cycles. I'm pretty sure it was the deceleration portion. Thanks again for that information.

I have another one for you guys. Why is the range so bad on my key fob? The car came with 3 keys and I've tried all of them with new batteries and all have the same range which is zero. Is it the antenna or the fob?
 
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MEgearhead

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2016
Location
Virginia
TDI
B5.5, 4L, 4G
Have you had any water issues on the driver's side where the CCM is? One of the wires to the CCM is the antenna. There was a bulletin on the earlier ones were that wire was not routed correctly or something, but I think that was before '04. However, you can verify that wire connection is good at the CCM. I'll either look at the wiring diagram tonight after work, or see if I can find that bulletin. It at least identifies the wire to check.

Edit: the antenna connections are 7 and 10 on the 15-way tan or black connector.
 
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5industries

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Joined
Apr 30, 2022
Location
USA CA
TDI
BHW
I went ahead and bought a new key, I made sure the part numbers matched but the cheap Chinese replacement still didn't program properly. I searched around the forums for a b5 key adaptation procedure but couldn't find anything definitive. I ended up following a procedure I found on YouTube that seemed to initially work but now I'm having new issues with the keys Here is the video . When I push the unlock button it sets off the alarm or the panic alarm and other times the buttons on the fobs does nothing but even though the red indicator light on the fob flashes. I'm going to pull the driver seat this weekend to look at the CCM but in the meantime can someone point me to the proper adaptation procedure.
 

5industries

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 30, 2022
Location
USA CA
TDI
BHW
Nvm I found the adaptation procedure Here at Ross Tech. This is the exact procedure I originally used but still had issues. I just did the procedure again and will see if the issues go away.
 
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5industries

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 30, 2022
Location
USA CA
TDI
BHW
The CCM has zero water damage. Has anyone ever located the the antenna for the fob? I found the shielded wire that attaches the antenna to the CCM and followed it back behind the dashboard, up behind where all the relays are located and I think into the driverside A pillar. All of the interior pieces and headliner is very delicate because of how old it is so I'm reluctant to start pulling that apart. Because the circuit for the antenna is shielded for interference I cant really check for continuity until I find the end of the circuit(antenna).
 

5industries

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 30, 2022
Location
USA CA
TDI
BHW
It looks like you don't need this link for Dutch Auto Parts, but someone may:
https://forums.tdiclub.com/index.ph...x-sets-engines-turbos-injection-pumps.434593/
Only reason I didn't go the swap route was because of smog regulations in my state. I wasn't sure that a tuned computer would pass but I also drive in so much traffic the auto is much more comfortable. My rebuild has about 4000miles on it with no issues other than the two bad remanufactured torque converter from Recon I had to replace with the final solution which was an OE I had rebuilt by Erickson's. I also haven't mentioned this before but the converter from Ericksons has been great.

The guy at the smog shop mentioned that next year CA is trying to force screen monitoring software on all scaning computers they use.
 
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