[Solved] 502 or 505 or 507 Engine Oil in 2006 TDI Beetle ?

zimbodel

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In my everlasting search for 0W30 engine oil which meets 505.01 specifications, I came across this site with compatibility data.

This site states the difference between 505.01 and 506.01 Since I am looking for 0W30, (and 506.01 does have 0W30), 506.01 seems like the solution to me.
It seems 506.01 is better or equal to 505.01 except for the first entry. I really dont like the stiff running in winter startups with the 505.01 5W30. All my other cars have 0W and there is no extra friction in winter I can detect during startups since I use 0W on all my cars. Since startups are one of the the major engine wear conditions, I want to try and ease that situation.

Anyone can explain the first entry relevance to me (Sooth Thickening, whatever that is ).
Seems to be additives preventing viscosity changes.

"https://www.oilspecifications.org/articles/vw_motor_oil_specifications_explained.php"

In addition, here is the descriptive difference between 505.01 and 506.01, both used in PD engines.
"https://www.oilspecifications.org/volkswagen.php"
 

Lightflyer1

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zimbodel

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Lightflyer1
Thanks a lot. I just want a 0W30 oil so my cycle will be still the same, I dont care about the extended range or higher price. It makes up for less engine tightness during startups in winter as I clearly found to be the case with my other cars running on 0W40.
Strange that the thread did not come up when I searched.
Thanks that solves my problem.
 

Lightflyer1

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I tried it long ago in my 2006 Jetta. It was hard to find. Don't know if it still is. Don't find it readily available at least stateside.
 

oilhammer

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There are just too many to list....
The PDs do not like Xw30 oils. I would stick with a 5w40 (the thickest 505.01 commonly available). PD cam jobs are a good income producer, though, so someone may thank you for using the thinner stuff. I'd rather just change your oil and not change the cam and lifters, myself.
 

zimbodel

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Those tight running grindups in winter sounds horrible and cold starting an engine with thick oil is one of the worst wear inducing processes and I maybe have to just use 506.01 0W30 during winters only, changing back to 505.01 in spring.
Do you have any publicized results that shows PDs failing prematurely due t 506.01 0W30 ?
That should settle it.
I read that in europe they dont really use 505.01 anymore in TDIs. (I will have to get the source again.)
Are they losing engines faster there ?
 

Mozambiquer

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Those tight running grindups in winter sounds horrible and cold starting an engine with thick oil is one of the worst wear inducing processes and I maybe have to just use 506.01 0W30 during winters only, changing back to 505.01 in spring.
Do you have any publicized results that shows PDs failing prematurely due t 506.01 0W30 ?
That should settle it.
I read that in europe they dont really use 505.01 anymore in TDIs. (I will have to get the source again.)
Are they losing engines faster there ?
If you're having problems with cold starts with 505.01 5w40 then there's something else wrong with your car. That's all I run and I've never had issues even with -15F and no block heater.
 

zimbodel

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It starts immediately but feels tight. Dont run rough but obviously sounds like oil is too thick to reach the cam quickly.
I just dont like it as it is obviously wearing down.
I had the exact same issues with my MB's with 5W40. Since I moved to 0W40 it starts the same come summer or winter.
It was way different in winter with the 5W40. The MBs are way past 300k miles & engines runs as new.
Diesel is a different animal though so I will rather take concerns you and others raised into consideration.
I will see if I find the article about european use of 506.01 and even 507 in tdis and preferably see if I can find wear results before I make a decision, but I will at least run 506.01 during winter only as I dont like the obvious wear.
 

oilhammer

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There are just too many to list....
I'm not sure what you mean by published. It is well, well known about SOHC PD TDIs' camshaft wear issues. I won't get into a semantics argument with you. This is old news, really. You can google it and literally read non-stop for a week, plenty of pictures, too. If you like, I'll take a picture of my dead cam pile when I get home, I have not been to the scrapper in a few months.
 

Mozambiquer

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It starts immediately but feels tight. Dont run rough but obviously sounds like oil is too thick to reach the cam quickly.
I just dont like it as it is obviously wearing down.
I had the exact same issues with my MB's with 5W40. Since I moved to 0W40 it starts the same come summer or winter.
It was way different in winter with the 5W40. The MBs are way past 300k miles & engines runs as new.
Diesel is a different animal though so I will rather take concerns you and others raised into consideration.
I will see if I find the article about european use of 506.01 and even 507 in tdis and preferably see if I can find wear results before I make a decision, but I will at least run 506.01 during winter only as I dont like the obvious wear.
The 506.01 and 507 are a low ash oil designed for cars with a dpf system. They have less lubricity as the additives that are needed specifically for the cam issues on the PD cars tend to create ash.
Oilhammer knows his stuff as well. He's been working on these for a long time.
 

zimbodel

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Mozambiquer

Not correct afaik.
The specification for 506.01 says BOTH dpf and non-dpf systems, not only dpf as you quoted.
See
- 506.01*** für Dieselmotoren (R5- ,V10 TDI Pumpe-Düse mit und ohne DPF)
"http://www.oel-aus-boehl.de/freigaben-und-normen.html"
I am German and asked German suppliers the same question, and I get totally different advice from Germany than I get here in the USA. Confusing.
506.01 is for any Pumpe-Duse with or without DPF according to them.
I am waiting for another person to respond from Germany and will post back.
 

zimbodel

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oilhammer
I understand you got a lot of wear with general non-506.01 0W30
506.01 0W30 is completely a different animal.
How many engines did you receive with worn cam, where the owner exclusively used 506.01 0W30, not just regular XW30 ??
 
Last edited:

oilhammer

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There are just too many to list....
Just so you know, the engines/regulations sold here differ from those sold in Europe at the same time. Also, the 506 deal was only for the BWF engine code. Your BEW has no DPF. Nor is it in Germany.

Of course, if you say you are German, now I know the stubborn part of the idea of admitting the PD camshaft arrangement is a poor design. No German wants to admit to ever doing anything sub-par, so I get it.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

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I don't believe there are any oils available any longer with the 506.1 certification. At least not in the US.
 

zimbodel

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So how many camshafts did you get that was destroyed with the owner using 506.01, faster than with 505.01 ?
afaik, the real difference is just an oil sensor in the sump in order to use 506.01 extended service.

Dont use general paintbrushes on people, only idiots do ... why do you think I moved to the US ?

Just so you know, the engines/regulations sold here differ from those sold in Europe at the same time. Also, the 506 deal was only for the BWF engine code. Your BEW has no DPF. Nor is it in Germany.

Of course, if you say you are German, now I know the stubborn part of the idea of admitting the PD camshaft arrangement is a poor design. No German wants to admit to ever doing anything sub-par, so I get it.
 
Last edited:

tikal

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zimbodel, as you can imagine this is a 'touchy' issue as many PD TDI owners have gotten $$$ damage due either themselves or taking the car to the dealership and using that Castrol 5W-30 oil that it is not suited for PD cams. And they did this until it was too late.

So should we conclude ALL 5W-30 engine oils are not suited for PD TDIs?

My own research on European forums provided a more specific answer. In Europe you have PD TDIs with DPF systems using VW 507 approved oils (5W-30) with no cam issues reported.

To me there is a science behind it. Start with the right diesel rated oil with the correct minimum HTHS of 3.5 or larger and your cam should be fine:

Relative Performance Comparison Tool for Passenger Car Specifications - Engine Oil Additives

I would not be surprised that US PD owners have also used approved VW 507 oils with no issues (normally one comes to this forum to report a problem or to complain on a certain TDI issue and less to say everything is fine).
 
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