5 Speed manual conversion update

Chrismak

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2005
Location
Brewster, NY
TDI
2005 Pasatt TDI , 2008 Mercdes E-320 Bluetec, 1983 300D mercedes (Sold :-(
Quick question. Will the parts from a 1999 1.8T work.
Everyone mentions 2000 and up, did the platform change from 99 to 2000. They look the same.


I have a 5 speed EEN gearbox.
 

vwztips

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 30, 2009
Location
Greenville, SC
TDI
2005 Passat GLS Wagon TDI 5 spd manual w/BSM delete 2011 Tiguan TDI/DSG 2005 Audi A4 Avant 6MQ TDI 2011 BMW X5 35d
As QuickTD said axles will not fit without swapping flanges. I would stick with the larger ones. The 98-99 Passat shifters used push down for reverse and are super sloppy. If you use the 2 back to back you would not be happy at all with the earlier shifter. It is that sloppy.
The pedals will work as will the clutch line.
 

Chrismak

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2005
Location
Brewster, NY
TDI
2005 Pasatt TDI , 2008 Mercdes E-320 Bluetec, 1983 300D mercedes (Sold :-(
Thanks guys...
What about the subframe? I'm meeting the guy monday. He already sold the engine and gearbox. Basically stripping in his driveway before taking to junkyard.

So basically the master and slave, clutch line, pedals, Subframe.

Get axles and shifter from 2001 and up.
 

vwztips

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 30, 2009
Location
Greenville, SC
TDI
2005 Passat GLS Wagon TDI 5 spd manual w/BSM delete 2011 Tiguan TDI/DSG 2005 Audi A4 Avant 6MQ TDI 2011 BMW X5 35d
no need to change the subframe
 

Chrismak

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2005
Location
Brewster, NY
TDI
2005 Pasatt TDI , 2008 Mercdes E-320 Bluetec, 1983 300D mercedes (Sold :-(
Wow, the existing subframe works.

I was under the impression the automatic subframe was different than stick.
Frans even asked if I needed a subframe?

One less piece of the puzzle to look for.
 

Chrismak

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2005
Location
Brewster, NY
TDI
2005 Pasatt TDI , 2008 Mercdes E-320 Bluetec, 1983 300D mercedes (Sold :-(
Thanks quick,

Use existing subframe with V6 left transaxle bracket and the right one from the 1.8T.
 

Chrismak

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2005
Location
Brewster, NY
TDI
2005 Pasatt TDI , 2008 Mercdes E-320 Bluetec, 1983 300D mercedes (Sold :-(
He has everything, so I may just get the subframe also and use it so I'm not hunting for the
V6 bracket.
The price is right so I will pick up axles also, they are original VW. I know they are not as stout as the later years and I would have to change the flange.

I will be on lookout for 2001 + gear shift and linkage. I know what you mean about the 1999 having a sloppy feel.
I just picked up a gasser wagon 5 speed , 1.8T for a runaround and even in gear the shifter has serious play.


Thanks for clarifying this as far as subframe and axles go.
 

Jerz

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 19, 2013
Location
Alberta, Canada
TDI
05 Passat Wagon GLS TDi 180hp, 5 speed swap; 05 Passat Wagon BEW swap (wife's, traded for OM606 Merc soon to be STD); 05 Mazda B3000 2.0mTDi swap (sold); Boxster S TDi swap (under construction)
Hi . Mine tiptronic give out the gost as well. Looking at manual tranny conversion, either European TDi tranny or 5th gear set. Unfortunately DarksideDevelopement guys are out of stock.
Question to tranny gurus: Are the gear sets interchangeable between 5 and 6 speed?
Thanks
Jerzy
 

Montezuma

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2013
Location
Montezuma,NV/Helena MT
TDI
2005 Passat Wagon TDI,2005 Jeep Liberty CRD, 1981 Caddy diesel, 1981 dasher Diesel, 1986 quantum td, 1992 d250 Cummins, 1995 2500 Cummins, 1986 dodge d50 td.
Could you give a link to Fran's website? Also do 1.8 t 5 speeds fit in our cars?
 

Jerz

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 19, 2013
Location
Alberta, Canada
TDI
05 Passat Wagon GLS TDi 180hp, 5 speed swap; 05 Passat Wagon BEW swap (wife's, traded for OM606 Merc soon to be STD); 05 Mazda B3000 2.0mTDi swap (sold); Boxster S TDi swap (under construction)
Thanks QuickTD. Will give Frans a try.
Another question: where can I buy tiptoronic parts , other then the stealer? Looks like a need a new pump.
 

vwztips

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 30, 2009
Location
Greenville, SC
TDI
2005 Passat GLS Wagon TDI 5 spd manual w/BSM delete 2011 Tiguan TDI/DSG 2005 Audi A4 Avant 6MQ TDI 2011 BMW X5 35d
What do you need for tiptronic parts? I have lots of spare parts......
 

Jerz

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 19, 2013
Location
Alberta, Canada
TDI
05 Passat Wagon GLS TDi 180hp, 5 speed swap; 05 Passat Wagon BEW swap (wife's, traded for OM606 Merc soon to be STD); 05 Mazda B3000 2.0mTDi swap (sold); Boxster S TDi swap (under construction)
OK, so to order 5 speed TDi tranny from Europe for my 2005 Passat TDi, I am looking for any TDi tranny from B5 or B6 Audi, or B5, or B5.5 Passat?

If I am reading you guys correctly, the 5 speed could use NA market gasser fly wheel, clutch, half shafts, and shifter. The 6 speed is different, so I would have to get the whole Tip to manual swap kit with all the trimmings. Correct?

Thanks
 

Windex

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 1, 2006
Location
Cambridge
TDI
05 B5V 01E FRF
You'll need (in addition to the transaxle) axle shafts, in-car shift lever, shift shafts, clutch pedal/bracket/master/slave/piping, clutch/flywheel, pilot bearing, tune, cluster reprogram.

For the 6 speed, you will also need the starter, a 240mm clutch & flywheel, 5.5mm transmission spacer, custom pilot bushing, custom intake support.

There are some custom clutches out there that will allow the 6 speed to use the stock starter and negate the use of the spacer/custom bushing.
 
Last edited:

Jerz

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 19, 2013
Location
Alberta, Canada
TDI
05 Passat Wagon GLS TDi 180hp, 5 speed swap; 05 Passat Wagon BEW swap (wife's, traded for OM606 Merc soon to be STD); 05 Mazda B3000 2.0mTDi swap (sold); Boxster S TDi swap (under construction)
Thanks Guys , mostly appreciated.
I have a lead on a 6 speed 01E TDi tranny. with bad pinion shaft bearing. Is it something worth perusing? I have rebuilt Porsche 930 transaxle before, but new to VW/Audi.
 

A5INKY

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Sep 4, 2007
Location
Louisville, KY
TDI
2006 Jetta TDI, 2002 Eurovan Westphalia VR6
...I used new 1.8T valeo single mass flywheel kits and the original BHW starters. 6 speed parts list is above.
That is the clutch I used too. Do you know the torque rating on this clutch?

Very nice clutch BTW, nice feel and no noise whatsoever :D
 

Chrismak

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2005
Location
Brewster, NY
TDI
2005 Pasatt TDI , 2008 Mercdes E-320 Bluetec, 1983 300D mercedes (Sold :-(
Deleted to avoid confusion. Sorry guys :)
 
Last edited:

vwztips

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 30, 2009
Location
Greenville, SC
TDI
2005 Passat GLS Wagon TDI 5 spd manual w/BSM delete 2011 Tiguan TDI/DSG 2005 Audi A4 Avant 6MQ TDI 2011 BMW X5 35d
no, we have already been through this on previous page. it is #43. plus there is no blank pins in the Passat harness. lastly the cruise works even if you don't hook up clutch. just don't forget to turn off cruise before pushing in clutch else you will redline engine
 

Montezuma

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2013
Location
Montezuma,NV/Helena MT
TDI
2005 Passat Wagon TDI,2005 Jeep Liberty CRD, 1981 Caddy diesel, 1981 dasher Diesel, 1986 quantum td, 1992 d250 Cummins, 1995 2500 Cummins, 1986 dodge d50 td.
I think that this procedure should be a write up with a sticky, then I imagine the respective questions will decrease.
 

Spring1898

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2014
Location
US
I agree,
Also a rough estimate, for self work and to have someone else do it, along with those who will do it for pay would be good.

Have most of the teething problems with these set ups been resolved?
The idea sounds great in theory, but as I slowly flip through these threads (not understanding 100%) it seems like there is a lot of trial and error until someone gets something that works and sticks with that as opposed to a standard proven thing.
 

vwztips

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 30, 2009
Location
Greenville, SC
TDI
2005 Passat GLS Wagon TDI 5 spd manual w/BSM delete 2011 Tiguan TDI/DSG 2005 Audi A4 Avant 6MQ TDI 2011 BMW X5 35d
As Q-TD states, the "bugs" have been worked out which is why I started this thread 2 years ago. I wanted to make sure all the parts played nice before shipping over a gearbox form Europe. Being that all the parts are interchangeble between the TDI, 1.8t and V6 manual cars (with the excpetion of the clutch (1.8t fitment only) and transmission mount brackets (left side from V6 only, right side from either) it is for the most part straight forward. I am pretty anal about the wiring and use the factory connections and positions as shown in the Bentley manual. After performing quite a few conversions to date, there have not been any real surprises or issues.

I have experimented with a "heavier duty" Sachs clutch but removed it after 300 miles as it was not driveable. Could have been a fluke.

Typically the cost of a 5 speed manual is about the same as going with a re-man'd automatic VW unit. I have not installed any 6 speeds. After a lot of research and weighing the cost vs any peceived benefit, it just wasn't worth pursuing IMO. Plus, this may be where you are getting confused as there are some particular issues with the 6 speed (starter, clutch, spacer plate, internal parts needing replaced on the 01E, etc.)
 
Last edited:

Spring1898

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2014
Location
US
Yeah I have been reading a lot on manual Passat swaps lately so I was probably blending the two trannies. I was thinking of going Jetta TDI, but the idea of a manual Passat has been more attractive.
I got to say I like 6 speeds better than 5 speeds.
It is worth considering, but if at all possible I would like to go 6 speed. How much more expensive and complicated are they? But if we want to keep this pure 5 speed feel free to PM or email me.

On other questions for 5 speeds, how much performance will they handle? I read that was one of the reason for going 6 speed?

2nd, what about doing a 5 speed conversion, and then doing the 6 speed mod?
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=346876
 
Last edited:

Spring1898

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2014
Location
US
Nope, didn't realize the 6 speed conversion was only for the transverse engines/trannies. Didn't take the time to look up the codes they listed

A 6 speed is attractive since a large part of the drive consists of 40 min on highway. So the top gear will get used quite a bit.
 
Last edited:

Windex

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 1, 2006
Location
Cambridge
TDI
05 B5V 01E FRF
6 speed conversions are also for B5's.

The 6 speed parts (minus transmission) don't need to come from Europe, they can come from an Audi or W8 passat.

The six speed is a stronger transmission (rated torque) hence it's popularity in mid-engined kit cars.

The 01E has a somewhat high instance of pinion bearing failures, and can eat syncros if you choose the wrong clutch.

Regardless of the above, I'm a low-rpm-highway-cruising junkie, so I still went with an 01E FRF six speed. Revs are about 200 rpm lower at highway speeds.
 

Spring1898

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2014
Location
US
That is pretty much the purpose of a 2nd overdrive gear, for highway cruising. The rest of the gears are about the same.
Obviously I am not expecting huge MPG differences (not like the auto to manual conversion), but 2 mpg or so would be nice.
 

vwztips

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 30, 2009
Location
Greenville, SC
TDI
2005 Passat GLS Wagon TDI 5 spd manual w/BSM delete 2011 Tiguan TDI/DSG 2005 Audi A4 Avant 6MQ TDI 2011 BMW X5 35d
As stated before there are only a few 6 speeds which actually improve the rpm/mph ratio vs the 5 speed. Majority of them have the 6th gear matching the 5 speed 5th gear ratio. But as I have also stated before, if you want the 6 speed knock yourself out. You asked our opinions and I personally don't think it is worth the hassle or additional expense for little to no gain in rpm/mph ratio.

Couple of the 5 speed conversions I have done have gone cross country (2000+ miles) and reported back 44-46 mpg
 

Spring1898

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2014
Location
US
I would be interested in seeing the results of how the 5 speed holds up under stress though.

I have seen transmissions hold down torque higher than what they are rated for, IE the ZF6 used in diesel trucks (after improving the clutch). But that is also a transmission designed to haul heavy loads and deal with spikes in load.

But from what I have been looking at, once you upgrade the turbo (with associated other upgrades) that would max the transmission rated level with stock injectors.

So if we can get a dyno on the rated power that TD wants to do and see what the tranny looks like after he is done playing with it that I would be interested in seeing.
Obviously if you run the crap out of the tranny even stock you will blow it up sooner than later.

Here are the gear ratios for the DVZ, TDI 01E, and the above mentioned ZF6 and Jetta 02J (PD) just for the heck of it.
DVZ 3.5 1.94 1.33 0.94 0.79
01E 3.5 1.89 1.23 0.93 0.73 0.60
ZF6 3.31 2.10 1.31 1.0 0.72

02J 3.78 2.06 1.35 0.97 0.74

The 5 speed looks different from what I saw in the thread. Did you change the gearing or did I pull the wrong tranny code?
 
Last edited:

Uberhare

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2006
Location
Ontario, Canada
TDI
Too many.
I'm really enjoying the 6 speed, and won't look back. I have a spare starter on the shelf, and already rebuilt the axles. 40k on it trouble free.
 

Spring1898

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2014
Location
US
I guess I am considering the logistics of parts too.
Except for the tranny itself, what parts are required for import from Europe on a 5 speed vs 6 speed?
 

Spring1898

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2014
Location
US
Okay, so it looks like GGB transmission, if one can be found, and probably slightly taller tires to make a little difference on the gearing and increase the height to compliment future suspension mods.
 
Top