5,000 Mile Oil Change

NCwolverine

Member
Joined
Aug 11, 2009
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
TDI
2009 Jetta TDI - DSG
First, I'd like to thank this forum. It has been an extremely valuable resource as a new TDI owner.

When I purchased my TDI ('09 Jetta - DSG) a couple of months ago, the dealer recommended an oil change at 5,000 miles in addition to the regularly scheduled 10,000 mile change.

What do you guys think of this idea? I've been breaking in my car according to Drivbiwire's advice.
 

Drivbiwire

Zehntes Jahr der Veteran
Joined
Oct 13, 1998
Location
Boise, Idaho
TDI
2013 Passat TDI, Newmar Ventana 8.3L ISC 3945, 2016 E250 BT, 2000 Jetta TDI
READ YOUR OWNERS MANUAL!

And NO do NOT change the oil every 5000 miles!

Engineers wrote that maintenance manual not some grease monkey trying to get you to service your car twice as often as the MANUFACTURER recomends!

Your car as it is currently built uses up to 30,000 mile oil change intervals in Europe. They dumbed it down for Americans who can't believe that oil is good for that long so they use a fixed service interval of only 10,000 miles or 1/3 of the original intended oil drain interval.

Changing the oil every 5000 miles or 1/6th of the original and intended interval is not only a waste of resources but offers ABSOLUTLEY no benefit to your engine and only serves to pad the pockets of corrupt dealerships.
 

dieseldorf

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 11, 2000
Location
MA
TDI
ex- 1996 wagon, ex-2000 Jetta
NCwolverine said:
What do you guys think of this idea?
Dealer's attempt to generate more business when times are tough. I can't really blame them. OTOH, use the an oil that meets the engine's requirements and you're good 'til 10k miles.

Welcome aboard, wolverine!!
 

rex_1_mn

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 2, 2009
Location
SW MN West of Marshall....
TDI
05 PD Golf GLS Manual
I think he may be talking about one oil change for break in when the odomoter reads 5000...Then one at 10,000 on the odometer then 20,30,40,50 etc.....

Maybe I am wrong if this is the case I would again refer to the manual but I believe the manual does say 5,10,20,30,40,50,60 etc....


I would go with the manual.... then every 10K after that..

There are some write ups around here explaining why changing the oil too often can actually be bad...
 

scooperhsd

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 19, 2003
Location
Kansas City KS
TDI
NB, 2000, RED(5 Speed conversion) 2015 Golf SE
NCwolverine said:
First, I'd like to thank this forum. It has been an extremely valuable resource as a new TDI owner.

When I purchased my TDI ('09 Jetta - DSG) a couple of months ago, the dealer recommended an oil change at 5,000 miles in addition to the regularly scheduled 10,000 mile change.

What do you guys think of this idea? I've been breaking in my car according to Drivbiwire's advice.
As stated above - Dealer's attempt to generate more business at your expense.

If they try to pull the "but our conditions are extreme" - pull out that VW tests in worse conditions (both hotter AND colder) than we experiance here in NC.

BTW - which dealer ?
 

kcfoxie

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 6, 2007
Location
Raleigh, NC
TDI
'12 6-spd JSW
Personally, I think you should do 5k then 10k then every 10k there after, unless a Blackstone UOA (used oil analysis) suggests you run longer on the oil based on its breakdown. For me, they suggest 12k OCIs (oil change interval) using Mobil 1 oil in my vehicle.

Until you have someone run it through a mass spectrometer and decipher the outcome, it would be best to stick to the owner's manual -- but I happen to disagree with the 10k suggestion. I personally would do a 5k change, with UOA. Then change again at 10 and do another UOA. Change at 20, do UOA. Based on the results of this one, you could extend it farther. I don't believe *any* oil can last 30,000 miles -- for the "average" American than is over two years, call my skeptical, but things deteriorate when they sit. Mercedes Benz and BMW both suggest 10k or 1 year, whichever occurs first. 30k or 1 year whichever is first? That's an OCI I'd love to have, because I can clock 44k in a year no sweat! But I'm FAR from average.
 

TooSlick

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Joined
Dec 2, 1999
Location
Dixie
TDI
Audi 100S
Due to the introduction of ULSD fuel, the oil (specifically the detergent/dispersants), degrades much more slowly than with 500 ppm sulphur fuel. However the soot levels over a 30k change interval could get pretty high & I'd also expect the oil to thicken, due to oxidation & evaporation. So while it may be possible to do 30k under ideal conditions, the results in terms of wear rates & maintaining high fuel efficiency would not be optimum.
TS
 

TooSlick

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 2, 1999
Location
Dixie
TDI
Audi 100S
If you look at the physical/chemical properties data for the VW 507.00 oils after 10k miles, a maximum OCI of 20k is much more realistic. Every time VW introduces their latest "Uberlube" (VW 506.01/VW 505.01/VW 507.00), people get all excited. However none of these oils are as robust as an API spec, synthetic diesel oil with a 10-12 TBN additive chemistry...
Your best odds of going 30k on one oil change are with a 12 TBN (CI-4+/SL), API spec diesel oil in an older, stock TDI engine.
TS
 

NCwolverine

Member
Joined
Aug 11, 2009
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
TDI
2009 Jetta TDI - DSG
Update

rex_1_mn said:
I think he may be talking about one oil change for break in when the odomoter reads 5000...Then one at 10,000 on the odometer then 20,30,40,50 etc.....
Exactly. It didn't seem like a ploy for money either, as he didn't say to come in to the dealer to get the oil changed, he just said that he would recommend getting it changed at 5,000 (and they knew I would be moving across the country in a few days).

scooperhsd said:
BTW - which dealer ?
Ralph Thayer up in Michigan.
 
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securityguy

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 5, 2009
Location
Virginia
TDI
2009 Jetta TDI Sedan
OK...newbie question...have a new 2009 TDI and I am totally on board with the every 10K mile oil change intervals. Only using Castrol SFX Synthetic as VW recommends. My question is simple...since every engine does have some break-in and with gas engines I always changed at 1000 miles and then went to my 5K interval with Mobil 1 synthetic, does it make sense as KC and REX have stated above to do my first oil change at say 1500 or 2500 miles and then every 10K after that or just wait until 10K and not do any pre-oil changes:confused:

Not looking to be an extremeist but if it does make sense to do the very first one "prematurely", I am all for doing it.

Thank guys!
 
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zanzabar

Vendor
Joined
Oct 18, 2002
Location
Petaluma, CA
TDI
2004 Jetta BEW 5spd (dual duty track car and daily driver beater)
No. Don't change it before 10000 miles as recommended in your user manual. This has been beaten to DEATH.

(edited, wasn't the old 1st oil change at 5,000, then at 15k, 25k...?)
 
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CoryS

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 28, 2005
Location
PA
TDI
2017 Jetta 1.4T
I did it at 1,000 and then at 5, 10, 15 and 20 and am now on a 10,000 mile OCI schedule. The biggest seller is that I have to change my oil half as often. Used to be all about 5,000 mile intervals, but all is well at the 7,500 mile mark. I do top off a tiny bit from time to time, though.
 

Joe_Meehan

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Sep 3, 2005
Location
Ohio USA
TDI
NB TDI, 2002.5, Silver
Other than the cost there is little to loose by too many oil changes, but there is some. I have seen test results that show that the first few thousand miles after an oil change is actually harder on the engine than the last few.

Of course going over the recommend change period is never a good idea.
 

2slowtdi

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 26, 2004
Location
Dallas Tx
TDI
2003 ALH Bora gone. 2006 Benz CDI 235hp 420ftlbstq
If its stock longer oil changes.
If its not your foot is your guide.
Mines not stock and the AC has been on since May.
I go every 5000 miles.
 

securityguy

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 5, 2009
Location
Virginia
TDI
2009 Jetta TDI Sedan
So this maybe a stupid question but how can changing your oil in a diesel to often be a bad thing??? Clearly I am no expert as many of you are on diesel engines but my time will come:)
 

kcfoxie

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 6, 2007
Location
Raleigh, NC
TDI
'12 6-spd JSW
yes, actually. the detergents package in the oil is designed to do it's cleaning and protecting for a set interval, and then the oil absorbs what it has scrubbed free -- this is my understanding of it -- there have been threads that go into the nitty gritty of why it's bad to change the oil too soon.

As many have stated some countries actually suggest a 20,000 mile change interval.
 

fancy_dancer

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 18, 2007
Location
Columbus, Ohio
TDI
2009 JSW DSG
OCI on 2009 JSW DSG

I had Blackstone do an analysis at about 5,500. On their suggestion, I paid the dealership for an oil change at about 5,900. Then they did their free one at 11,750, and then one at 19,900.

I plan to have my second analysis done just before my last free oil change, including TBN. Then another analysis at about 40,000. We'll see where all this leads. On their recommendation, I might extend it up to a 20K OCI.
 

Drivbiwire

Zehntes Jahr der Veteran
Joined
Oct 13, 1998
Location
Boise, Idaho
TDI
2013 Passat TDI, Newmar Ventana 8.3L ISC 3945, 2016 E250 BT, 2000 Jetta TDI
securityguy said:
So this maybe a stupid question but how can changing your oil in a diesel to often be a bad thing??? Clearly I am no expert as many of you are on diesel engines but my time will come:)
What KC said.

Do NOT change the oil more often than the manual specifies. VW already places a fixed SEVERE SERVICE INTERVAL on ALL US cars. Why would you change it more often than the factory recognized WORST CASE interval?

This week I will be halfway to my first oil change on the ML ($60K vehicle) it hasn't even crossed my mind to change the oil early despite the 3 fold sticker price. I bough the car because I trust the engineering that goes into them, If I didn't I would not have purchased it and I also subscribe to the servicing recomendations! However I will say that once past 20-30K I will be reverting back to the European change intervals which are greater than 10K.

If you are driving a 2009 VW then leave the cars alone until the first oil change at 10,000 miles which is the FIRST SERVICE!

For those of you with older cars the 2009 TDI DOES NOT HAVE AN OIL CHANGE AT 5K so stop suggesting it!

The first oil change is actually the cars second. Every engine was run-in at the factory and drained of all fluids and filters. Then the engine was filled with the initial "TL" spec break-in oil (a 5w30 produced by FUCHS). LEAVE THE BREAK IN OIL ALONE and DO NOT change it until 10K!

People, drive more worry less!

Take the chance during the first 10k to read your owners manual and maintenance manual rather than needlessly messing around with an engine and increasing the risk that you or the dealer will royally screw something up!
 

Brokk

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 30, 2005
Location
Selah, WA
TDI
'04 GLS TDI JETTA
I am glad I read this thread this morning. I have been stupidly changing my oil every 5k miles. I am at 75K now and will save the oil and filter I bought today until 80K.
 

Sip'n Diesel

Veteran Newbie
Joined
Apr 13, 2008
Location
San Joaquin Valley, I have VCDS (KII-USB)
TDI
2003 ALH: 254,000 miles
Q: 5,000?

A: NEIN! SCHIESSE!!1! :rolleyes:
Brokk said:
I am glad I read this thread this morning. I have been stupidly changing my oil every 5k miles. I am at 75K now and will save the oil and filter I bought today until 80K.
stupid question: what have you been doing for 3 years and 11 months?
Elfnmagik said:
DBW, you must have one of those Batman Signals but for oil posts. I love it though.
I think it might be called a magnetic premature drain-sensing plug?
 
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tditom

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Sep 5, 2001
Location
san antonio & austin
TDI
formerly: 2001 Golf GL, '97 Passat (RIP) '98 NB, '05 B5 sedan
i was talking to a high milage tdi owner and he swears by 5K mi oil changes. hasn't harmed his car in the first half million miles...
 

tditom

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Sep 5, 2001
Location
san antonio & austin
TDI
formerly: 2001 Golf GL, '97 Passat (RIP) '98 NB, '05 B5 sedan
Sip'n Diesel said:
... yea but it unnecessarily harmed the environment while lining someone else's pockets. can't argue that one :rolleyes:

wear metals are invisible to the naked eye

is he the original owner?
i believe he is the original owner.

re. harming the environment: If the oil is recycled and burned for heating fuel, is there real harm being done?

re. spending too much: Sounds like he's been without a car payment for quite awhile.
 

CoryS

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 28, 2005
Location
PA
TDI
2017 Jetta 1.4T
Sip'n Diesel said:
... yea but it unnecessarily harmed the environment while lining someone else's pockets. can't argue that one :rolleyes:

wear metals are invisible to the naked eye

is he the original owner?
Democrat hysteria alert.
 

NCwolverine

Member
Joined
Aug 11, 2009
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
TDI
2009 Jetta TDI - DSG
Thanks Drivbiwire. I'll be following my manual's and your advice with my '09, and waiting till 10,000mi.

There seems to be a bit of hate towards the dealers on this forum, would you recommend ignoring my 'free' maintenance from the dealer, and take it to a reputable mechanic instead? I checked another post and there is such a mechanic near me.


Drivbiwire said:
What KC said.

Do NOT change the oil more often than the manual specifies. VW already places a fixed SEVERE SERVICE INTERVAL on ALL US cars. Why would you change it more often than the factory recognized WORST CASE interval?

This week I will be halfway to my first oil change on the ML ($60K vehicle) it hasn't even crossed my mind to change the oil early despite the 3 fold sticker price. I bough the car because I trust the engineering that goes into them, If I didn't I would not have purchased it and I also subscribe to the servicing recomendations! However I will say that once past 20-30K I will be reverting back to the European change intervals which are greater than 10K.

If you are driving a 2009 VW then leave the cars alone until the first oil change at 10,000 miles which is the FIRST SERVICE!

For those of you with older cars the 2009 TDI DOES NOT HAVE AN OIL CHANGE AT 5K so stop suggesting it!

The first oil change is actually the cars second. Every engine was run-in at the factory and drained of all fluids and filters. Then the engine was filled with the initial "TL" spec break-in oil (a 5w30 produced by FUCHS). LEAVE THE BREAK IN OIL ALONE and DO NOT change it until 10K!

People, drive more worry less!

Take the chance during the first 10k to read your owners manual and maintenance manual rather than needlessly messing around with an engine and increasing the risk that you or the dealer will royally screw something up!
 
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