450 mile tank

GlowBugTDI

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 20, 2018
Location
Cambridge, MN
TDI
2001 Beetle GLS TDI (BIODSL). Glow Bug TDI (sold)
As stated I've been getting about 450 mile tanks in my alh beetle. I have a malone stage 3 and pp520 injectors, but even before this was avg for me. I always thought i was getting more mpg, but now realize maybe not.
I do drive with fast acceleration, and 65-70 on the hwy but i know top speed isn't cutting much mpg wise. Seems even when i do drive nice though it doesn't go up much. I feel like i should know this by now, but is it because im driving a beetle? Or is this just my driving? I always thought i was getting like 43-45mpg. Everything is top notch mechanically.
 

Mongler98

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 23, 2011
Location
Northern MD (HAGERBUSH)
TDI
98 Jetta TDI AHU 1.9L (944 TDI swap in progress)
only way to get good mileage with performance parts is to monitor fuel consumption in real time. ScanGaugeII will give you this MPG and GPH in real time. This will allow you to talory your pedal action appropriately. you will be amazed at how little fuel you will use at just a little less pedal action in some places.
 

hskrdu

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 17, 2003
Location
Maryland and New England
TDI
2003 Golf GLS 4D 5M, 2015 GSW SE 6M
It's not because of the model- although the MkIV wagon was stickered just above the G/J/B for FE, the city/hwy numbers for the group are generally similar. The Beetle has slighter higher Cd, but can still do very well on the hwy, especially at your reported hwy speeds.

For others to comment on your FE, they need to know more about the car, city/hwy mix, upkeep-maint-issues, wheels/tires, how you are calculating MPG, what sample size you are using, etc. Reporting FE by miles per tank is also vague, even though we know your tank size, since we don't have accurate MPG numbers.

If you have an 01M driving 50% city in MN and you are getting 450 mi on 13 gal over the last six cold months, then that's certainly within a reasonable range. If you are getting 450 on a vented tank (say 15 gal) on summer fuel/warmer starts with mostly hwy, then you can try to identify FE losses. If it's a stick, then your FE is notably lower than most of us would expect, and there are lots of FE troubleshooting threads that can be a great starting point.
 
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prsa01

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2000
Location
mpls,mn usa
TDI
14 jsw 6m, 96 B4v, miss my a4 :(
My bone stock alh jetta almost always got in the neighborhood of 800 mile tanks prob 70/30 hwy/cty. That was topped up tanks taken fairly close to empty. That car almost always did 50 mpg or better. The newer TDIs, not so much. The brm would do ~ 44 at best and my current cjaa jsw is lucky to touch 40 if I have an almost exclusively hwy tank plus they each have smaller tanks than the alh had.

As other's have commented, to get an accurate mpg measurement you need to track fuel in and miles out each tank and it helps to fill the tank relatively consistently full. Summer fuel and temps should get us better mpg up here in the frozen north going forward.

How you drive, esp with mods, will certainly impact the mpg you experience.
 

GlowBugTDI

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 20, 2018
Location
Cambridge, MN
TDI
2001 Beetle GLS TDI (BIODSL). Glow Bug TDI (sold)
only way to get good mileage with performance parts is to monitor fuel consumption in real time. ScanGaugeII will give you this MPG and GPH in real time. This will allow you to talory your pedal action appropriately. you will be amazed at how little fuel you will use at just a little less pedal action in some places.
I've thought about getting one before. It would be really nice to have immediate mpg numbers as i move up through gears. My problem is I like racing cars at stop lights lol.
 

GlowBugTDI

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 20, 2018
Location
Cambridge, MN
TDI
2001 Beetle GLS TDI (BIODSL). Glow Bug TDI (sold)
It's not because of the model- although the MkIV wagon was stickered just above the G/J/B for FE, the city/hwy numbers for the group are generally similar. The Beetle has slighter higher Cd, but can still do very well on the hwy, especially at your reported hwy speeds.

For others to comment on your FE, they need to know more about the car, city/hwy mix, upkeep-maint-issues, wheels/tires, how you are calculating MPG, what sample size you are using, etc. Reporting FE by miles per tank is also vague, even though we know your tank size, since we don't have accurate MPG numbers.

If you have an 01M driving 50% city in MN and you are getting 450 mi on 13 gal over the last six cold months, then that's certainly within a reasonable range. If you are getting 450 on a vented tank (say 15 gal) on summer fuel/warmer starts with mostly hwy, then you can try to identify FE losses. If it's a stick, then your FE is notably lower than most of us would expect, and there are lots of FE troubleshooting threads that can be a great starting point.
Ok, thanks. Very good information.

It is a manual, stock tank, and i mostly drive hwy. But i probably wont be accurate enough to tell rn.
I am driving on winter blizzaks right now, so once i switch to my summer tires maybe ill see a difference. These ones are pretty sticky, but work great for gabbing amd pulling me along quick.
Im not wanting to be a hypermiler, but would like to be getting 40mpg when im just cruising. This tank I'm trying things differently and will see if i notice a difference.
 

GlowBugTDI

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 20, 2018
Location
Cambridge, MN
TDI
2001 Beetle GLS TDI (BIODSL). Glow Bug TDI (sold)
My bone stock alh jetta almost always got in the neighborhood of 800 mile tanks prob 70/30 hwy/cty. That was topped up tanks taken fairly close to empty. That car almost always did 50 mpg or better. The newer TDIs, not so much. The brm would do ~ 44 at best and my current cjaa jsw is lucky to touch 40 if I have an almost exclusively hwy tank plus they each have smaller tanks than the alh had.

As other's have commented, to get an accurate mpg measurement you need to track fuel in and miles out each tank and it helps to fill the tank relatively consistently full. Summer fuel and temps should get us better mpg up here in the frozen north going forward.

How you drive, esp with mods, will certainly impact the mpg you experience.
Ok, I'll start keeping a better check on things, and we'll see how it goes. Ya my mods made the car a blast, but also makes me drive like a cross between tokyo drift and Cleatus McFarland.
 

hskrdu

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 17, 2003
Location
Maryland and New England
TDI
2003 Golf GLS 4D 5M, 2015 GSW SE 6M
Yes, with a manual and driving highway, 450 miles to a tank is quite low. Winter will be your lowest FE due to winterized fuel and cold start-ups, but you should be expecting better than that. The reference to the tank size is about venting vs not- the only way to really get accuracy for single tanks is to fill to the brim (venting). Otherwise you can't establish a sound overall idea of FE until you have lots of data points.

Um, don't plan on routine 800 mile tanks unless you are venting and driving on the highway. Although we have a thread dedicated to 800 milers, it's not routine for the average MkIV driver.


And make sure to read OH's thread:

 

Hawkins2015

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 31, 2019
Location
Southern Indiana, USA
TDI
01 Jetta , 00 Jetta
Like many others, I'll recommend downloading and using the Fuelly app on your phone. Input the gallons and odo reading at each fill-up and it tracks your MPG's.

It is also very handy for keeping track of maintenance and all work done. I record the odometer reading versus the default trip miles. It makes keeping up with oil changes and whatnot much easier, especially on the wife's car since I don't get in hers very often.
 

kjclow

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 26, 2003
Location
Charlotte, NC
TDI
2010 JSW TDI silver and black. 2017 Ram Ecodiesel dark red with brown and beige interior.
My bone stock alh jetta almost always got in the neighborhood of 800 mile tanks prob 70/30 hwy/cty. That was topped up tanks taken fairly close to empty. That car almost always did 50 mpg or better. The newer TDIs, not so much. The brm would do ~ 44 at best and my current cjaa jsw is lucky to touch 40 if I have an almost exclusively hwy tank plus they each have smaller tanks than the alh had.

As other's have commented, to get an accurate mpg measurement you need to track fuel in and miles out each tank and it helps to fill the tank relatively consistently full. Summer fuel and temps should get us better mpg up here in the frozen north going forward.

How you drive, esp with mods, will certainly impact the mpg you experience.
I'm not sure I ever broke the 800 miles to a tank on my 2000 beetle but agree that 50+ mpg is not that hard to hit on the stock ALH engine. My best tank ever was 56 mpg with all cruising around 60 mph, probably 95% of that tank. Charlotte to Morehead City round trip on same day. My JSW with the commonrail diesel has only hit low 40s a few times but I don't think I've ever done a similar trip as above. The JSW has a lager engine, larger (heavier) car, more torque and more hp. All leading to lower fuel efficanicy.

To the OP. ONly way to improve mileage on your car is to change driving behavior of the person behind the steering wheel, but I think you realize that.
 

GlowBugTDI

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 20, 2018
Location
Cambridge, MN
TDI
2001 Beetle GLS TDI (BIODSL). Glow Bug TDI (sold)
I'm not sure I ever broke the 800 miles to a tank on my 2000 beetle but agree that 50+ mpg is not that hard to hit on the stock ALH engine. My best tank ever was 56 mpg with all cruising around 60 mph, probably 95% of that tank. Charlotte to Morehead City round trip on same day. My JSW with the commonrail diesel has only hit low 40s a few times but I don't think I've ever done a similar trip as above. The JSW has a lager engine, larger (heavier) car, more torque and more hp. All leading to lower fuel efficanicy.

To the OP. ONly way to improve mileage on your car is to change driving behavior of the person behind the steering wheel, but I think you realize that.
Ya, I've been around long enough to know that that makes a huge difference, but was curious if there was something else i was doing or that i could do. The previous owner had been getting 52mpg on trips he said, and so when i found that i hit the 32mpg area i was surprised that it was possible to do that (even with my mods). I'm thinking about getting fuelly, and am driving a bit differently this tank to see if there are improvements.
Thank you all!
 

Lightflyer1

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Sep 13, 2005
Location
Round Rock, Texas
TDI
2015 Beetle tdi dsg
Owners lie all the time about their mileage. That is where Fuelly comes in. Proof is in the numbers there. Good place to see the averages and not just what one person "says" they calculated. Few people drive the same so different numbers is the rule.
 

Mozambiquer

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Mar 21, 2015
Location
Versailles Missouri
TDI
1998 VW Jetta TDI. 1982 VW Rabbit pickup, 2001 VW Jetta TDI
I've heard a lot of people claiming numbers and all, but what really matters is actual numbers, not claimed ones. My personal record in my alh is 49.9 mpg (see the golf in my signature) lately it's been in the high 30's to low 40's, though it's breaking in the engine as well, so it'll be a bit lower. I keep records in my fuelly app, which really helps, since I see what affects economy and then also can know when something is really wrong.
In my passats, it has a readout in the dash that shows current fuel consumption. I didn't know I had that for a while, but then accidentally discovered it, and it's really helped increase my fuel economy.
I'm thinking about trying to get that on my golf, since as I understand correctly, you can do a custom color mfa cluster, and I think that is one of the things you can get, but it's not cheap... The beetle would be different though, it's a completely different cluster, so I don't know if you can get one made for that.
 

Lightflyer1

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Sep 13, 2005
Location
Round Rock, Texas
TDI
2015 Beetle tdi dsg
You and a few others are outliers in the data field. There are those who can get those kinds of inflated numbers but the vast majority don't. Much to the consternation of many who read about it and can't quite do it.
 

kjclow

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Joined
Apr 26, 2003
Location
Charlotte, NC
TDI
2010 JSW TDI silver and black. 2017 Ram Ecodiesel dark red with brown and beige interior.
I filled the truck yesterday and it had 570 miles on the tank. Took about 22 gallons to fill. It has a 26 gallon tank and I typically get 22 mpg running around town so most fills are around the 500 mile mark. The wife is now driving the JSW and she also gets over 500 miles per tank but on a 14 gallon tank. So, yes, I understand what the OP is asking/complaining about.
 

Lightflyer1

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Sep 13, 2005
Location
Round Rock, Texas
TDI
2015 Beetle tdi dsg
Ok, I'll start keeping a better check on things, and we'll see how it goes. Ya my mods made the car a blast, but also makes me drive like a cross between tokyo drift and Cleatus McFarland.
There is your problem right there. Mods and driving like that suck fuel. In order to get anything better you are going to have to change your driving habits to better ones. Mods can be beneficial if you are driving properly for economy. Or they can really hurt when used for power and speed.
 

GlowBugTDI

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 20, 2018
Location
Cambridge, MN
TDI
2001 Beetle GLS TDI (BIODSL). Glow Bug TDI (sold)
Ya, I drove quite a bit nicer with only a few hard pulls to get up to speed for traffic, and im at about the same. Will try a few more times and see what i can do. Here soon I'll be putting on my summer tires and hoping it'll go up a bit, because ive gotten 45mpg before and now i can't hardly hit that.
 

GlowBugTDI

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 20, 2018
Location
Cambridge, MN
TDI
2001 Beetle GLS TDI (BIODSL). Glow Bug TDI (sold)
There is your problem right there. Mods and driving like that suck fuel. In order to get anything better you are going to have to change your driving habits to better ones. Mods can be beneficial if you are driving properly for economy. Or they can really hurt when used for power and speed.
Ya, and i know that to an extent, but it just seems really low. I still love my mods
 

jmodge

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Jun 18, 2015
Location
Greenville, MI
TDI
2001 alh Jetta, RC2 5speed daily commuter and 2000 alh Jetta 5spd swap, 2" lift, hitch, stage 3 TDtuning w/502's backroad cruiser
12 gallons in just a little over 300 miles? You’ve got multiple issues with that, even beating on your car all the time it shouldn’t eat that much fuel. Even when I drove around for a couple months without fifth gear while often towing my quad, I never dropped below 42 miles per gallon. I am always winding mine up
 

kjclow

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Joined
Apr 26, 2003
Location
Charlotte, NC
TDI
2010 JSW TDI silver and black. 2017 Ram Ecodiesel dark red with brown and beige interior.
Those llok worse than the tires I jsut got taken off my truck.
 

Lightflyer1

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Joined
Sep 13, 2005
Location
Round Rock, Texas
TDI
2015 Beetle tdi dsg
My 2003 Beetle I owned and Robby (runonbeer) rebuilt a lot of, had no issues getting in the mid 40's. I just drove it normal, without trying for economy.
 

Nevada_TDI

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Joined
Aug 17, 2008
Location
Reno, sort of...
TDI
2001 Jetta TDI
Although the following suggestion is an inaccurate calculation, here it is: drive by the vacuum gauge. The vacuum gauge is very accurate to tell you what your right foot is doing.
 
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Andyinchville1

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2016
Location
Virginia
TDI
2003 Jetta TDI wagon, 5 sp, 226K miles
That alignment problem isn't helping your mpg. Don't think you need collect any more data. Your mpg sucks, and it's not because you drive "with enthusiasm."

I agree ... tires that look like came from a car with bad alignment ...

Bad alignments will eat up tires and MPGs...

In addition to being soft tires have you even check tire pressures ?

My guess is getting a really good alignment front and rear and some low rolling-resistance all-season type tires pumped up to maximum PSI is bound to help fuel mileage somewhat...

Also if you go somewhat oversized on the tires you'll get higher effective gearing and that will help MPGs also.

Andrew
 

GlowBugTDI

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 20, 2018
Location
Cambridge, MN
TDI
2001 Beetle GLS TDI (BIODSL). Glow Bug TDI (sold)
The centers are bald, but my summer tires never had that problem so Idk. A mechanic Friend said i was doing to many burn outs, or i had them over pressurized (i have them set right...35psi rating). My summers are oversized because of when I had my lift in the green car, so that may help mpg's. i just blew a tire after i got home from work it cracked, and leaked out so I guess the summer set is going on.
 

GlowBugTDI

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 20, 2018
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Cambridge, MN
TDI
2001 Beetle GLS TDI (BIODSL). Glow Bug TDI (sold)
I did just do my control arm bushings (audi TT), but that wouldn't throw it out of alignment. That was a week ago so that didn't cause the center wear. Those tires are also over 5 years old, they came with the car when I got it and the car had sat for 5 years prior to me buying it.
 

Mozambiquer

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Mar 21, 2015
Location
Versailles Missouri
TDI
1998 VW Jetta TDI. 1982 VW Rabbit pickup, 2001 VW Jetta TDI
The other thing that can really help is p&g driving (pulse and glide) being that the TDI engine management shuts fuel off when you decelerate makes it the most efficient moment, and do the more you can glide, the better economy you can get. Obviously you can't do that all the time, but I've found a big difference in doing that. I'm on a trip with my Passat wagon, which is loaded down with luggage, I've been using a light p&g and have been averaging 40 mpg. That's a lot heavier car, and an automatic, plus there was some waiting in traffic because of an accident.
You can make your car do a lot better, but most of what will make the difference is how you drive. My golf gets right around 40 right now, but it's really hopped up. Sometimes it's less, because it's what I take on fire calls, and fuel efficiency is the last thing on my mind in those moments.
 
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