380 Hp 505 Tq

[dvst8r]

don't see why one can't run nitrous from idle if one wants, it's the fuel that makes the power, the nitorus only helps to burn it..

Nitrous is effectively timing, you add it in at idle, and next thing you know you have a rod sticking out the block. With that being said, if you had a well mapped progressive setup you *Could* do it, but Nitrous gets pricey, and I don't see the point.

 

[vwmikel]

Nitrous is effectively timing, you add it in at idle, and next thing you know you have a rod sticking out the block. With that being said, if you had a well mapped progressive setup you *Could* do it, but Nitrous gets pricey, and I don't see the point.

The point was just that he could get a much more accurate dyno that way as a sudden onset of nitrous later on shocks the dyno.

 

[Rub87]

For a dyno it could be done to eliminate the huge spike seen in these runs after 3000rpm..

if you add so much nitrous the oil film on the cilinder wall starts to burn..

I guess you'll hear it, we were doing some experiments the other day with LPG, makes a funny noise when you push things

 

[dvst8r]

The point was just that he could get a much more accurate dyno that way as a sudden onset of nitrous later on shocks the dyno.

So a progressive setup...

 

[vwmikel]

but i dont need the N2O until 3500 rpm. If i used the N2O right off the bat then I would blow my engine if i have 451 ft-lbs of TQ at 3700 RPM's can you think of what they would be at 2300 when i would normally hit the peak? what 500-600? The bottom end couldnt handle it. and your claim of the shock does not hold water it might if itwas a spike but a spike does not last 1500 RPM's thats half my pull. If i could get a controller to just spray in 3rd and 4th gear at 3500 to 5000 RPM's .

Ben, you make my brain hurt. I will try to explain this one more time.

Horsepower is an expression of torque at speed as given by the equation HP = Torque X RPM / 5252.

If I were to prop up the back of my bicycle and start pedaling at a steady rate then the wheel would also spin at a steady rate. If I suddenly kicked the pedal really hard it would jerk the wheel and accelerate it very quickly. Would it slow down immediately? No, because the wheel carries it's own inertia.

A dynojet works on the same principal. You're spinning against drums of fixed weight. When you suddenly turn the nitrous on it jerks the drums into moving faster over a period of time.

 

[shizzler]

Yeah but I don't completely buy the "quick acceleration = fake HP numbers" argument either. This dyno is calibrated to record power from its own rate of acceleration. Just because the nitrous came on fast doesn't mean the torque wasn't there. It calculates a torque number based on how fast it accelerates... period. If you don't have the torque then you just can't accelerate the rollers that fast. There is no inertial quality to acceleration; only rotation / motion. That is to say, you cant start something accelerate, then remove the accelerative force, and expect it to keep accelerating based on inertia. Thats not the definition of inertia.. As soon as force is removed the object (dyno rollers, in this case) stops accelerating.

I work in a dyno lab. When you ramp engines up quickly at WOT, they sometimes show slightly higher power than they can sustain at steady state. But that doesn't mean the recorded torque isnt real. In terms of driving on the street, that might translate into ripping through 2nd gear but not getting the same power down during acceleration in 5th at high speed.

 

[aNUT]

Torque is expressed as ft/lbs or pound feet. That is a measure of force over distance. So, one ft/lb is one pound of force over one foot of distance.

That is incorrect.

 

[vwmikel]

That is incorrect.

You're right, I was think of newtons.

This link is more precise: http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/topics/Foot-pound_force

 

[majesty78]

Horsepower is an expression of torque at speed as given by the equation HP = Torque X RPM / 5252.

Hum...i know this formula as

HP= torque x rpm / 7022 ....

 

[vwmikel]

Hum...i know this formula as

HP= torque x rpm / 7022 ....

http://www.howstuffworks.com/question622.htm

"(Torque x Engine speed) / 5,252 = Horsepower"

 

[vwmikel]

Yeah but I don't completely buy the "quick acceleration = fake HP numbers" argument either. This dyno is calibrated to record power from its own rate of acceleration. Just because the nitrous came on fast doesn't mean the torque wasn't there. It calculates a torque number based on how fast it accelerates... period. If you don't have the torque then you just can't accelerate the rollers that fast. There is no inertial quality to acceleration; only rotation / motion. That is to say, you cant start something accelerate, then remove the accelerative force, and expect it to keep accelerating based on inertia. Thats not the definition of inertia.. As soon as force is removed the object (dyno rollers, in this case) stops accelerating.

I work in a dyno lab. When you ramp engines up quickly at WOT, they sometimes show slightly higher power than they can sustain at steady state. But that doesn't mean the recorded torque isnt real. In terms of driving on the street, that might translate into ripping through 2nd gear but not getting the same power down during acceleration in 5th at high speed.

What kind of dyno do they use though?

 

[Rub87]

... If i used the N2O right off the bat then I would blow my engine if i have 451 ft-lbs of TQ at 3700 RPM's can you think of what ....

torque is made by fuel, fuel can be easily limited in torque limiter

 

[DbLog]

Hey Ben, it's good to see someone pushing the limits and doing something few have done on this side of the pond. Regardless of what people say, right or wrong, I give you props for actually doing it. I hope you need a helmet for xmas and those 1/4 mile times are what you've been looking for. Cheers!!

 

[mojogoes]

All of you guys are harpping on about number and scales of power and torque etc!! man its soooooooooo boring just let the guy run a few 1/4 mile times and then we can make an educated guess on how much power/torque he really has One thing i do know with the rated torque figure/s he has mentioned and thats a clutch thats strong enough to keep that amount of torque in check especially when the n20 is brought into the equation and is why i bought the last 6 puk solid 500lb clutch setup though it was never fit (new owners bonus!!)

If its got anywhere near the power mentioned it should run in the 13's slipping or not and if everything holds up and nothing lets go and good traction is attained then we could see a 12.something

 

[AThreeTdi]

Curiuos to see the 1/4 mile # turned without the juice!

 

[TDIinTexas]

Ben, what are the differences in your setup that contributed your new 219whp vs. 213 whp from before? I thought there would be a bigger difference.

David

 

[SBAtdijetta]

Nitrous oxide is not a fuel for diesels, gassers, or huffers. It's not a fuel at all. It's also not a catalyst, it's an oxidizer (fuel needs OXYGEN to burn) in a liquid form so you are not restricted by limitations in airflow due to a small turbo or intake. When it evaporates in the intake or cylinder, it also cools the air making it denser allowing more air to flow in, and also lowering EGT.

Like a gigantic turbo... that is supper efficient and cooling.. lol (but yea not fuel)

Ben you are spraying a high % of Methanol too correct?

 

[SBAtdijetta]

Ben, what are the differences in your setup that contributed your new 219whp vs. 213 whp from before? I thought there would be a bigger difference.

David

Maybe because the turbo he has is too small to take advantage of any of the additional fuel he has added when going from the PD150 to Race783 injectors.

Then the N2O gave him back the air, and bang there is the extra power. Just my .02 guess.

 

[majesty78]

There is absolutely NO way to quench the amount of exhaust gases what show up at 300 or 380 hp through the gt18 turbine.

This is impossible by the laws of physics.

Sorry for saying that so directly, but those dynoplots are nothing else than inaccurate.

Also, with 505lb/ft your gearbox would have simply blown up, thats almost 700!!!Nm....

If your signature is up to date what depends the mods on your car, then you wouldnt have an engine now anymore, and no tranny....

Regards, Alex

 

[Eck]

Funny how a guy is putting so much money down for parts and labor to just catch $hit at the end of the day.
I wonder how this will end. Subscribed!!

 

[fixumrich]

Look's like I gotta head to the dyno shop to see where the Bug is at ? Good job Ben . Cheer's Rich !

 

[Rub87]

If all fuel would have burnt (no smoke on the 505ftlbs run) you would still need approx 130 mg/stroke to achieve that torque, this equals a bmep of almost 45bar with 1.9l displacement, this equals around 4 bar of boost.. crazy

 

[borachris]

Can't wait to see what this hits on the strip

 

[Rub87]

ok DONT JUMP ON ME BUT I talked witht the dyno guy and the W/M was on on the N2O runs. He didnt get what i said. Again Im sorry and Im running the boost juice from snow performance. I really didnt mean to lie. And majesty78 you are an idiot. To say something is imposible when you have nothing to base that on. how can you know have you put this turbo on an engine with all my mods then hit it with N2O?? If not keep you omposible talk to your self.

And you dont need 4 bar of boost with a 150 shot of N2O. try to remember the N2O carried alot more oxygen then air does. and Im going to try and make it to the track tomorrow the clutch keeps getting air in it so the shop is trying to fix it . ive had it bleed 4 times.

I didn't say that you need 4 bar boost when running N20, if you read what I said

...this equals around 4 bar of boost..

 

[ducesrwld]

man if i can it 200 whp & 350 tq i'd be thrilled once i start my project. too see those numbers on a daily driver gives me hope that my engine and tranny will hold up in the long run.

 

[ccvdubs]

Ben, Nice Numbers

 

[O.C.TDI]

[QUOTEthe clutch keeps getting air in it so the shop is trying to fix it . ive had it bleed 4 times.][/QUOTE]

Like I told you. Replace the O-rings. Now that the connection at the m/cylinder has been seperated you will have to replace both. Once they have been seperated they seem to leak. They look fine, but they won't seal.

 

[majesty78]

And majesty78 you are an idiot. To say something is imposible when you have nothing to base that on. how can you know have you put this turbo on an engine with all my mods then hit it with N2O?? If not keep you omposible talk to your self.

And you dont need 4 bar of boost with a 150 shot of N2O. try to remember the N2O carried alot more oxygen then air does.

Thank you for the 'idiot', In other forums you would get a warning or even banned for that...
Anyway, you may not have realized that i didnt state anything against you what is meant personal against you, but getting personal is a very common behavior of people running out of technical knowledge.

To the topic:
Yes, i know people running Gt1856v turbos, and as a little bonus, i do not only know people running them, i build them.

For the fuel thing: approx. 25percent flow over stock ARL injectors are the numbers which BOSIO gave, i guess if as manufacturer will know best.

These numbers are profen by several tuners and users here, like vwmikel said: you need only 30 degrees of duration instead of 40 for same torque, which is about 25percent less.

In that calculation you also have to take case of the way better combustion efficiency with less duration, so you gain a lot from that fact too.

Just take a look, which effort people have to take to make an engine as strong as your dynos show. (Marek, aka Stingray per example with their Lupo)

And then you come up on here an doing the same with a kiddy turbo, way to small nozzles and you even talk about 400hp which you could have done...

Everybody may think what he likes, but to me this is far beyond...

Regards, Alex

 

[vwmikel]

dude all you say is imposible . you are calling me a liar. point blank. All i know is the #'s so suck it im sorry you cant get anymore HP out of your cars not my fault. figure it out for yourself. and as for the fuel I went back and said i was sorry i didnt know he left the fuse in. then on top of the fuel i was spraying 49 percent mix W/M or boost juice from snowperformance. I dont care who you are or what you do bla bla bla. Im not an idiot either. I asked alot of Q's at the shop and esp. when those #'s came up. I asked him about the N2O giving false #'s they all said NO if it was a shock as you say you would see a fast drop off and not a steady one as mine is. Mine looks the same but 122 HP higher than without it. if it were a shock then i wouldnt be able to maintain the speed and it would have dropped off.


as for the clutch i had that all replaced bc i didnt want it to be that. I trust your theory and had it dun too.


What is sad is that i try to not get into the group thing esp. since i came back and see all the attacks that go on but i can bet you If I said I was running RC3000 No one would have said a thing . Its sad really I see why my friend mike alley got off here and why so many others quit too. I use to love this place but all it is is bashing now. Im just trying to share how i got were i am Ive shown all my work to everyone. PIC's and all. I think i was one of the first to post pics of a PD injector install. Heck even my getto Intercooler's that worked great by the way. I could care less about the way i look on here but i will not be on here and called a liar over and over. Im not and would not. So no more. If anyone would like help Pm me other than that im dun. Have fun you guys.

For the record here, I never called you a liar (and I'm not sure anyone else has either). I think you honestly believe what that dyno said. Do I think you made great power? Yes. Should you care what other people think? No. But, you have to expect these reactions from people when you come on here and instantly become defensive when someone raises questions. Be a little more humble and accept that you don't know everything (I know I don't). Others will follow. Good luck at the track. I hope it all holds together.

 

[oldpoopie]

I really was looking for somethign that said dont go, but this was the closest I could come.....

http://icanhascheezburger.wordpress.com/files/2008/02/funny-pictures-orange-cat-tongue-taunts.jpg