33mpg?

[I800C0LLECT]

What in the world am I doing wrong? I have to mention this when I go in for my 10k service. I'm currently at 9k and my fuelly signature will explain. Anything deviating higher is because I drove on the interstate at some point. I will say that before using fuelly I hand calculated a single trip that totaled about 120 miles at 49mpg with a nice tail wind. I started using fuelly because I figured my math had to be wrong when suddenly I had nothing better but ~33

Anyways, I keep seeing everybody raving about 40mpeegeez!! in the city. How? Is my commute below that much worse than what most consider "city" driving?

So here's the drive...

https://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=37+Sweeney+Boulevard,+Hampton,+VA&daddr=2080+Skyraider+Court,+Hampton,+VA&hl=en&ll=37.088357,-76.399827&spn=0.029133,0.062613&sll=37.102725,-76.423515&sspn=0.007282,0.015653&geocode=Ffu1NQIdAqty-ym7Kk3YjoO6iTGc_K-w1icxpQ%3BFYUkNgIdpd5x-ymroRe5JYK6iTGNVILQ6HwC2g&oq=37+sween&mra=ls&t=m&z=15

Getting onto Hampton Highway the posted speed is 55mph. There are 2 stop lights before I get to the intersection with Semple Farm Rd. I always hit both lights and always hit red lights at Semple Farm Rd int. too. I turn left onto Commander Shepard Blvd(35mph). There is one light I sometimes catch before I make a left turn onto N. Armistead(45mph). I always catch a red light turning onto Sweeney Blvd(35mph) and then I have to go through the security gate. There are two more lights to finish up the drive and I rarely catch those as red.

Am I ridiculous to think I should be getting better mpg?

I had a supercharged Grand Prix that was stated 17/25mpg and I achieved 24/34. I don't floor it everywhere I go. I'm pretty good about my driving habits.

I also have a 2012 Passat and I obviously can't get my wife to write down anything substantial so I can hand calculate but after running the same route a couple times today her MFD read 44.3mpg. My jetta?....it says 32.5mpg.

I can't imagine it should be that far off. We both have DSG btw. My best highway runs have only been ~36 to ~39 lately. Any ideas?

 

[MikeMars]

It's a 4 mile drive ... the engine will still be cold when you arrive at your destination.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

Think about it: this is a short trip from a cold start. You have an automatic. You're getting better than the EPA city MPG. Why do you think something's wrong?

I have a 5 mile commute. If I get in the car and drive there only the MFI shows about 15 when it first appears and slowly climbs to the mid/high 30s by the time I get to work (manual transmission, summertime so easier warm-up). If I keep driving in similar suburban roads and state highways (50 MPH or so), the MPG will climb to 50 or so by the time I've driven 15 miles. In the winter the numbers are lower.

I notice that if I set out on a longer drive it can take up to 100 miles before the MFI climbs to my usual MPG average. I think some of this is warm-up time, some of it is that the MFI simply isn't that accurate for short trips.

Overall, your car's doing what's advertised. Don't expect much help from the dealer on this one. Oh, and it's not broken in. It'll get better in another 50K.

 

[I800C0LLECT]

Well it's not that I'm actually worried about anything tbh. Everything you've mentioned is what I've rationalized. But since joining here I keep reading exclamations from others about their CR getting 40mpg in city driving. That's what makes me scratch my head. My first inclination is those individuals must be exaggerating.

 

[MikeMars]

...My first inclination is those individuals must be exaggerating. ...

They're doing more than 4(!!?!) miles. Why do you even need a car for that distance?


Your mpg is fine (in fact, very good), given the short distance you drive. You may run into issues with your DPF sooting up on the Jetta, the Passat might be OK since (I think?) its dpf works slightly differently.

 

[WutGas?]

As stated, it's the 4 miles. I would bet if you whipped your car around at your destination, and drove back home, and then turned around and went back, you would be up in the 36-38 range.

 

[I800C0LLECT]

As stated, it's the 4 miles. I would bet if you whipped your car around at your destination, and drove back home, and then turned around and went back, you would be up in the 36-38 range.

I've tried that too and it really isn't any different because I hit the red lights. I've driven 9k miles in 6 months. I drive a lot outside of my work commute. And in a week I'll be moving so my commute will be a 30 minute drive.

The only thing that's rubbing me wrong is that a lot of people posts 40mpg claiming city and there's a local guy who says the same thing about his drive to work(which is similar to my own). I figured either he's ridiculous or I was and I had a hard time believing that my car could get any better than what it has accomplished.

I appreciate the feedback though. Thanks everybody

 

[I800C0LLECT]

Fyi...a prime example of why I have a hard time accepting my mpg stats...

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=3968195&postcount=16

As stated in the replies you got, it looks as if your issue with lower mpg than what you would expect might be in the distance for your commute. Have you moved to a 30 minute commute, like you had mentioned? If so, has your mpg improved?

As you can see from my comments on fuelly, I commute ~95 miles a day. It takes at least 2 - 3 miles during the summer and a bit longer in the winter for the engine to get up to operating temp. You can also see my average comes about because the majority of my miles are on the highway.

Jim

As I stated in my own thread. I don't have issue with my stated results specific to my vehicle. But it can be alarming to read a lot of this around here....

Here's my Fuelly page on my '12 Golf. Note the average miles per tank. I've taken this car on two road to Michigan, but most of my driving is short distances (5 mile commute), stop and go in Boston traffic, and suburban driving. I don't hypermile. These are numbers I think anyone should be able to achieve. The only mod my car has that may help FE is I switched to 15" wheels, so the wheel/tire combo is about 5 lbs. lighter per corner and they probably have less rolling resistance.

His average is 43.3mpg. Is most of his driving REALLY the 5 mile commute? Compare that to my "city" mpg/~5 mile commute and something is odd...

Why should I be taught and lectured when asking why there is a discrepancy between our stories and stats?

So why is his mpg so magical compared to my own? He claims a 5 mile commute. That's why I've stated that I believe some people must be exaggerating. My mpg seems perfectly rational...until I see posts such as these.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

I provided more info here.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?p=3968221#post3968221

One thing I like about the Golf is I was able to start tracking on Fuelly from nearly zero miles (I think the car had 23 on it when I took delivery) and can use odometer miles instead of trip miles. I'm sure I could figure out how to consistently inflate MPG claims, but why would I? I don't typically share my Fuelly data, it's not in my signature, and if it were inflated it wouldn't be of any value to me.

FWIW, there are folks here who post MPG numbers that I have trouble believing. And others who achieve numbers that I don't doubt, am very impressed with, and I don't care to expend the patience and effort to duplicate.

EDIT: I'm kind of amused by this, as I have always been a bit embarrassed by the low MPG numbers I get compared to a lot of the Northeast crew. That's partly why I don't show off my Fuelly numbers. I think they're on the low side because I refuse to drive 60 or 65 MPH. I guess it's all relative.

 

[I800C0LLECT]

I'm in the same boat...I'm a bit embarrassed to share as well. I'm not trying to call you out as a liar or exaggeration. I'm honestly considering if something is "off" on my car or if it's just a head game because I do read posts boasting 40+mpg and then I look at mine befuddled.

I honestly don't lean on the gas peddle as people pass me all the time when I accelerate. They also get peeved when I do the speed limit.

 

[WutGas?]

I'm in the same boat...I'm a bit embarrassed to share as well. I'm not trying to call you out as a liar or exaggeration. I'm honestly considering if something is "off" on my car or if it's just a head game because I do read posts boasting 40+mpg and then I look at mine befuddled.

I honestly don't lean on the gas peddle as people pass me all the time when I accelerate. They also get peeved when I do the speed limit.

Well, for what it's worth, you should be accelerating briskly to get up to speed quicker. That way you get to your final drive ratio quicker, and can coast more. That could help a bit.

 

[I800C0LLECT]

Well, for what it's worth, you should be accelerating briskly to get up to speed quicker. That way you get to your final drive ratio quicker, and can coast more. That could help a bit.

I'll definitely try that! Thanks

EDIT...I probably do drive like an old man :/

 

[Craneguru]

1-800-Collect,

Anecdotal evidence to show how your actual commute affects your mpg's:

My commute used to be 4.6 miles each way, in a suburban environment that included four stop signs, and seven stop lights, and one school zone (20 mph). Due to traffic density, half of that trip I never achieved the posted 35 mph. My pickup truck* (non-TDI ) would average 6 mpg tank after tank. I did this commute for six years.

I subsequently moved 19 miles away, different direction, mostly rural traffic. This commute has four stop signs, and 10 stop lights (that you are guaranteed to stop at). Same pickup truck (still not a TDI ) now gets ~17.5 mpg average on a tank to tank basis, five years running.

Now, my Beetle (TDI - yay ) averages 42ish on the 2nd scenario. Hence the upgrade from a 15 year old pickup to a 10 year old Beetle.

*pickup model not disclosed to protect its identity .

 

[I800C0LLECT]

nice!!! Thanks Crane I presume my mileage will have a decent increase as well.

On a side note...closed on my new house today. I can't say I'm rejoicing or maybe it hasn't sunk in? I'm just dreading this move (sigh).

 

[MikeMars]

Looks nice, congratulations

 

[I800C0LLECT]

**UPDATE**

I put ST coilovers on Saturday, the 24th. For some reason my MFD mileage has gone WAY UP!!! Since moving majority of my driving has been highway with VERY LITTLE city driving involved. Fuelly shows that I haven't gained anything significant and I'm teetering on 40mpg's.

I normally only witness ~41mpg's on the mfd. Well, now my MFD is showing ~48mpg's doing the same driving! I have absolutely no idea how changing to coilovers might affect mileage but my assumption is that if fuelly numbers show a similar result then perhaps I had something binding somewhere? *shrug* My last fuelly update included a heavy foot and lots of city so I was VERY shocked to see 39.3. At first I thought I must have been playing head games with myself but those last few days of driving definitely brought my mileage up to what was only achievable with near 100% highway driving. I can't wait to post my fuelly after this tank *crosses fingers*

 

[WutGas?]

Definitely don't know what happened, but I am glad to see it moving up!

I honestly think it has a lot to do with (besides all the obvious answers) "learning" to drive a diesel/fuel efficient car. I know when I got mine, I would regularly only see 35-38, but as I got the hang of it, and figured out that you don't need the go pedal much when going down hills and the importance of maintaining your speed, and all the other minute details you start to do without noticing that my MPG started to go up quite a bit. Add that to more break in time and the results have been good.

 

[I800C0LLECT]

I appreciate the post. I initially began using fuelly because my mfd suddenly dropped. I even have a picture from a round trip that was over a hundred miles and the mfd was reading 55mpg. Since I started tracking with fuelly my mfd has only been 1 to 2mpg higher than fuelly. On the way to work this morning it read 45mpg. Going home it was 50mpg. I haven't been above 42 since before I started using fuelly. I haven't changed my driving style. All I did was add st coil overs. I might do a partial fuel just to check and see if I'm crazy.

 

[cd_booth]

If it makes you feel any better I've been getting about 30 mpg on my 7 mile drive to work now that it's getting cold. It's all 45 mph roads with 2 stop signs and maybe 5 traffic lights. My engine is just reaching operating temperature when I arrive.

 

[Lightflyer1]

I got 31.5 on my '13 Passat for the first tank and I have a short 5 mile drive as well. This will change for me though as work is "consolidating" us and I will have to start driving 30 miles each way next year sometime.

 

[I800C0LLECT]

Update:

My last fill up was 39.6mpg and that includes a lot of driving around base, which usually brings me down considerably(reference august, september, october), and freezing temperatures that weren't there during the previous months. If you notice my fuelly, you'll see that November had a higher average that matches my december fill up. That fill up was nearly all highway mileage and associated to a move.

So I can hardly believe that lowering my car increased my mileage THAT much. It's also hard to believe that some miracle break in occurred on the way to my brother's garage prior to lowering my vehicle.

I'll have to take a picture, it's not a significant drop and I left it slightly raked.

FYI, my best of 40mpg was a 100% interstate trip but I let my car sit for a while. ~September 10th was another one of those 100% interstate trips and I only received ~38.6mpg.

 

[I800C0LLECT]

Thought I'd finally post a couple of photos of it being lowered...not that anybody really cares

Before...

After...

Sorry about the tree being in the way.

 

[I800C0LLECT]

New update....


Finally home from deployment and I think I've had an epiphany about driving style, DSG, and regens.

Highway drivers tend to purchase the manual. It has a better 6th gear ratio for lower engine RPM's and these individuals are well informed on what they need to achieve their goals. But DSG owners can still get close.

DSG owners typically purchase the automatics because of city or urban driving...in my case, so my wife can use the car too.

Highway driving minimizes regens. I've been reading that the regens occur when you're able to maintain I believe speeds above 40mph? (somebody feel free to correct me).

What it all comes down to is that when I'm taking short trips, maybe less than 5 minutes for a gallon of milk, since I have not reached optimum operating temperatures and there isn't time for regen, the system makes up for it the next time I commute back and forth to work. But the short trips are adding up and causing many more regens than would be necessary if I wasn't taking so many small trips.

Driving these short distances and for short periods increases the number of regens. My last tank was an attempt to maximize my travel times by grouping my errands for longer travel times. Seems like it worked pretty well.

My only other comment for the 43.4mpg tank is that I dialed in my suspension height to 25.5 from fender to ground and I started using additive. I've tried Diesel Kleen and Optilube. I haven't noticed a difference between the two.

 

[pparks1]

I'm driving a 2013 Passat SE with Sun/Nav TDI. When i got the car, it was summer time, and I would drive about 5 miles urban/city. 40mph roads, traffic lights approx once per mile. Then, I would get on the freeway, and go 65mph for 7 miles. When I got to work, I would usually be around 42-46mpg.

Then, my kids went back to school and I have to drop them off. The school is about 10 miles away from the house and it's all city/urban driving to the school. I'm still mostly on 40mph roads, with traffic lights and major intersections every mile. However, since I'm in morning rush hour, I get caught at more lights. I get stuck at lights and sit their idling. Therefore, i have a lot more go, stop, go, stop, go, stop...then I used to have.

Once the kids are at school, it's about 4 miles of 40mph roads, but with less traffic and I usually get through a few lights. then, i'm on the freeway for exactly 1 mile at 65mph before I exit and coast around a huge exit ramp.

On the route to the school, I'm typically around 32-36mpg according to the MFI. Once I'm by myself, I can usually eek it out to 38-41mpg by the time that I hit work.

In watching my drive, I rarely get above 30mpg on my drive before I hit the 4 mile mark. And with the temps dropping here in michigan, on 40 degree mornings, it's taking even longer.

But, put me on the freeway and I'm getting 45-52mpg easy.

So, I think you have to take what people say with a grain of salt. Some will refer to City driving and mean Chicago/New York, while others will refer to metropolitan areas with 2 lane roads there they can go 55mph and never have to stop. These are very different conditions and will result in radically different mileage results.

 

[I800C0LLECT]

So, I think you have to take what people say with a grain of salt. Some will refer to City driving and mean Chicago/New York, while others will refer to metropolitan areas with 2 lane roads there they can go 55mph and never have to stop. These are very different conditions and will result in radically different mileage results.

EXACTLY RIGHT!!! I guess that's one of my frustrations with people posting comments such as "45mpg w/50% driving". How? Can you prove that half of all your miles on that tank were city driving? I just don't believe it. 600 miles on a tank and 300 were in...what kind of city? I think posting your TOTAL AVERAGE SPEED would be more helpful vs. "I think it was 50% city driving". But I'm not sure how to log that accurately.

"City driving" to one is not the same to another. My "city" driving consists of hitting a light almost every few hundred feet. It takes quite a bit to go a few miles. And trying to maintain 45mph speed limits hurts the team too.

But, more importantly, Jetta regens use diesel to complete the regen process. And there's more build up and more regens due to short trips. My 2012 Passat TDI easily achieves higher mileage with these shorter trips. I just can't prove it because my wife refuses to keep a receipt or log anything for me.

I believe Jetta DSG mileage numbers can be a bit skewed because most of these owners tend towards shorter trips. That's why there's so many threads with owners asking questions and complaining.

In your case, the Passat does better with short trips since you have the system w/AdBlue

 

[pparks1]

for example today traffic was quite heavy. at the 5 mile mark it was in about 20 minutes. I could not get my mileage over 31mpg. by the time I hit the school at the 10 mile mark I was just at 34.

 

[APT]

Your regen theory is not correct. It's time/distance traveled on a cold engine. Have you ever studied your MFI average fuel consumption 1? In the summer, mine starts in the teens, quickly rises over 30mpg within 2 miles on secondary roads, 35-50mph. In the winter, it starts under 10mpg, and hits 20mpg in the same distance. Our diesels just do not operate efficiently when cold. All engines use more fuel at cold temps, meaning before engine coolant and oil at are normal operating range. The cold ambient air temps means it takes longer to reach. And diesels seem to have a wider spread when cold vs. hot than gasoline. So the longer commutes, the better and more stable the FE.

 

[I800C0LLECT]

Your regen theory is not correct. It's time/distance traveled on a cold engine. Have you ever studied your MFI average fuel consumption 1? In the summer, mine starts in the teens, quickly rises over 30mpg within 2 miles on secondary roads, 35-50mph. In the winter, it starts under 10mpg, and hits 20mpg in the same distance. Our diesels just do not operate efficiently when cold. All engines use more fuel at cold temps, meaning before engine coolant and oil at are normal operating range. The cold ambient air temps means it takes longer to reach. And diesels seem to have a wider spread when cold vs. hot than gasoline. So the longer commutes, the better and more stable the FE.

Maybe I didn't communicate that effectively but that's exactly what I've been saying. I'm just adding to it...

Short trips = cold engine. Short trips = more regens/regen attempts.

How do I know? Well it's certainly not scientific but after changing my driving routines I noticed that I stopped turning off the vehicle in the middle of a regen; which seemed to happen all the time. The end result? I haven't heard my fans running after turning the vehicle off in about a month now. Although I still take short runs, I add the trips together for a bit longer "city" drive time.

My conclusion is that mpg is more specific to engine temperature and regens based on driving routines. The DSG can be more efficient if people change their habits/drive times.

It's quite simple to understand that highway miles and longer commutes always result in better mpg's. What I've been trying to understand this whole time is how others can claim high(er) mpg when majority of their fuel tank mpg has been spent in the city?

Now that I lump all my "city" driving into one or two days vs throughout the week my regens are less and my overall mpg is higher. Again, I haven't changed the amount I travel under "city" conditions. I just changed the frequency and lumped those miles together.

I thought this would help others and educate those who keep posting about CR mpg. Now that I know, I still might go back to my old ways...but at least I'm making that choice knowingly.

My posts are specific to CJAA engines. Not your Passat.

 

[I800C0LLECT]

for example today traffic was quite heavy. at the 5 mile mark it was in about 20 minutes. I could not get my mileage over 31mpg. by the time I hit the school at the 10 mile mark I was just at 34.

When I first purchased my vehicle I was only about 5 miles from place of work. Your example is exactly what I experienced for those 5 miles. When I finally hit the interstate on the weekends I think regens were ruining my mileage. Because sometimes I could hit ~50mpg on the mfd and other times I struggled to get near 40...all interstate, no difference in temp.

Now I'm doing 25 mile commutes and I still had the same variation in 100% highway trips and my overall mpg average only went from 34 to 37. I had expected a huge jump in mpg after the move since I do so little "city" driving. All my interstate trips are at least 25 miles.

It befuddled me that one trip would be 50mpg on the mfd and another time it would barely reach 39. I completely understand that the mfd is unreliable, hence my fuelly use. But fuelly was backing up this variance.

Now that I've been working on reducing my regens and my mpg's have gone up significantly, I thought I had found the cause.

 

[Oilerlord]

EXACTLY RIGHT!!! I guess that's one of my frustrations with people posting comments such as "45mpg w/50% driving". How? Can you prove that half of all your miles on that tank were city driving? I just don't believe it. 600 miles on a tank and 300 were in...what kind of city? I think posting your TOTAL AVERAGE SPEED would be more helpful vs. "I think it was 50% city driving". But I'm not sure how to log that accurately.

"City driving" to one is not the same to another. My "city" driving consists of hitting a light almost every few hundred feet. It takes quite a bit to go a few miles. And trying to maintain 45mph speed limits hurts the team too.

But, more importantly, Jetta regens use diesel to complete the regen process. And there's more build up and more regens due to short trips. My 2012 Passat TDI easily achieves higher mileage with these shorter trips. I just can't prove it because my wife refuses to keep a receipt or log anything for me.

I believe Jetta DSG mileage numbers can be a bit skewed because most of these owners tend towards shorter trips. That's why there's so many threads with owners asking questions and complaining.

In your case, the Passat does better with short trips since you have the system w/AdBlue

I've lost count on how many "what's wrong with my car's MPG" posts there have been on this site. I think what causes the most frustration for new TDI members are the myriad of posts where other members aren't exactly forthcoming on what it takes to actually achieve 45/50MPG with their TDI's.

Anyone that that says they are getting 45MPG on short trips in stop-and-go traffic with their MKV6 is either not telling the whole truth, is an extreme hypermiler, or both. I've done one 700 mile (47.5MPG) tank with my JSW, but it took a lot of mostly freeway commutes and hypermiling to achieve. I realized that it took an continuous, almost OCD effort to tick past 700 miles, and after rolling up to the pump on fumes - I realized it was actually pretty stupid to risk running out of fuel doing it. I might even be able to do an 800 mile tank (over 57MPG) if I went on a long highway trip and set the cruise at 55, but if I'm doing an 800 mile road trip; I'd rather get there in 10 hours at 80MPH instead of choosing to grind out 14.5 hours at 55MPH. For me, saving 4.5 hours on that trip is well worth a few extra bucks on fuel.