$300 350,000 mile tdi hydrolocked???

jmodge

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2001 alh Jetta, RC2 5speed daily commuter and 2000 alh Jetta 5spd swap, 2" lift, hitch, stage 3 TDtuning w/502's backroad cruiser
You could be onto something. I’ve only seen one run away, it was a C7 Cat. And it screamed until it started to Hydro lock. Smoked like hell too, So I don’t think it would idle regularly on oil, but can’t discount it either. I think the idea of trying to run it on a separate can of fuel is a very good idea. Not sure about the solenoid control, never had cause to check it, but I have read it powers down if the engine dies. But I have popped the clutch and fired mine before
 

jmodge

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No throttle response, that is something to consider, could have been running on oil or injectors could be fouled from the apparent runaway . VCDS will tell you if you’re throttle is being read.
 

mk4mr

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1999 Jetta TDI
No throttle response, that is something to consider, could have been running on oil or injectors could be fouled from the apparent runaway . VCDS will tell you if you’re throttle is being read.
...going to have to get VCDS soon....I guess 6 VWs justifies some strong consideration...
 

jmodge

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Call Ross Tech for options. Mine was just short of $400, but has free updates and covered all cars the way I understood it. Not sure if that is still the case. Apparently there is less expensive options that work with limited VINs
 

turbocharged798

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99.5 black ALH Jetta;09 Gasser Jetta
Ok, I have another question. I have mentioned that after emptying the cylinders of whatever had at least one of the hydrolocked, the car ran for a little bit then died. It restarted with some cranking, and idled for about half of the time that it did the first time. Is it possible that there was enough residual fluid in the cylinders that combusted and allowed the engine to start and idle? Is it possible that there was enough left in there that it could actually run for 15 seconds? If so, maybe the injectors aren't injecting...maybe this was the initial problem...for the PO... But I don't know if residual fluid could be enough to idle that long. What do you all think? I just wonder if that would explain why it wouldn't start back… Honestly, it seems like it would take a good deal of fuel/fluid to idle 15 seconds, and it seems like that might be enough to hydrolock rather than allow rotation. I think that with atomized fuel, the combustion chamber is normally cleaned out with each compression stroke, but if there had been a cylinder full of fluid, would one full compression stroke be able to clear it all, or would it take many compression strokes to finally use it all up? Are there ECU conditions that control the pull-in solenoid on the IP, or is it strictly control by ignition power? I'm really starting to think that the engine was running on what was left in the cylinders. That might explain the lack of pedal response as well as not being able to restart afterward. Am I just way off here???
Did you remove the rubber elbow going to the intake?
 

Genesis

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Sevier County TN
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'03 Jetta Wagon
No, that's what you do to prevent a suspected destroyed turbo from being able to cause a second runaway :)

However, do not drive the car with it disconnected. Running it at idle is fine, but putting a load on the engine with no backpressure on the intake risks a turbo overspeed since the ECU will keep asking for more boost but never seeing any and if it wasn't destroyed before it will be then.... :)
 

mk4mr

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1999 Jetta TDI
No, that's what you do to prevent a suspected destroyed turbo from being able to cause a second runaway :)

However, do not drive the car with it disconnected. Running it at idle is fine, but putting a load on the engine with no backpressure on the intake risks a turbo overspeed since the ECU will keep asking for more boost but never seeing any and if it wasn't destroyed before it will be then.... :)
Ah, ok. I get it. I have the piping to the intercooler off at the moment, and I have also drained it and the drain 'hole' is still open. I have tried, based on very limited turbo system knowledge, to make sure I'm not pulling oil into the intake...if it starts.
 

mk4mr

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Dec 26, 2019
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Mid Tenn.
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1999 Jetta TDI
I have not picked up a diesel compression test kit yet, but I'm going to today hopefully... I may have no choice but to do a cold test. Does anyone know what to expect doing a cold test? Let's assume this is the original engine, with 350,000 miles. I know there probably aren't any concrete answers, but I guess I am wanting to know what the 'lowest' acceptable compression is...cold or hot.

How much variation, cylinder to cylinder, is acceptable doing a cold test on a 350,000 TDI mile engine?

How low can compression be and still run...ball park?

If one cylinder were 'dead'(low to no compression), will this engine still start?

Thanks to everyone. Sorry for the random flood of questions...
 

turbocharged798

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99.5 black ALH Jetta;09 Gasser Jetta
Should be 450-500 psi across all four. Anything less than 400 and you have a problem. Disconnect the fuel shutoff on the injection pump to keep it from starting.
 

csstevej

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2001 golf tdi 4 door auto now a manual, mine, 2000 golf 2 door M/T son's,daughters 98 NB non-TDI 2.0, 2003 TDI NB for next daughter, head repaired and on road,gluten for punishment got another tdi 2001NB,another yellow tdi NB
I know when my son had snapped the turbo shaft in his golf while he was at college.
I went out there with a spare turbo and all my implements of destruction to see what kind of damage he had.
I disconnected the intake pipe from the turbo , pulled the GP’s and pulled the wire off the IP ,
Plugged the holes with rags and cranked the engine to clear the cylinders. Surprisingly very little came out of the cylinders.... his car had 300,xxx miles on it at the time.
Luckily the oil went into the exhaust......smoked like a banshee for about 30 minutes on spirited drives to clear the exhaust out.

I used a harbor freight compression tester and I was getting on a stone cold engine 370-390 psi on the cylinders.....dodged a bullet , no bent rods.

I believe the difference between cylinders should not exceed 74 psi.

Low side I think is around 250 psi....remember reading it somewhere.

This is my experience.

If cylinder #3 is dead....no , if a different cylinder possible but not well.
 

mk4mr

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1999 Jetta TDI
Update...

First, I have determined that this car is very, very hard to prime...even with a mighty vac. With a mighty-vac, I am finally able to prime it, and even then, it takes a good deal of cranking. The fuel pump mystery in this car definitely is preventing the pump from being able to pull any fuel. I bought two cans of diesel purge and ran spare hoses into a different container and primed and primed with the mighty-vac. Cranked and cranked and finally it hit and idled. I didn't rev it, but there was throttle response. It has an occasional 'jerk' or bump in the idle, but never stumbles, and maintains an idle around 930. Light throttle is very smooth. Nothing coming out of the charge pipe initially. Exhaust relatively clear, but the car is pretty loud up front...like maybe a flex pipe...if there is one on a TDI. IDK yet. The car continued to idle really nicely with the recurring 'hicup' type bump here and there. The engine rocks noticeably in the engine bay each time the 'hicup' occurs. At this point, all piping was connected except for the charge pipe. After several minutes of idle, I saw one black drop of oil form on the open end of the pipe, but nothing more. After about 10 minutes of idling, with a cheap obd2 scanner temp reading of 156f, I started smelling coolant, and noticed a vapor coming out of the charge pipe. It was not oil vapor. I put white paper towel under the open end of the pipe, and as the occasional oil drop would hit the paper, there would be a wet, pinkish orange wet area around it, all the while, there was a little bit of fog coming from the charge pipe, and it smelled of coolant. No coolant on the dipstick, some fog coming from the valve cover with the 'puck' removed. Altogether the car ran for 15 minutes or so, and I finally shut it off.

So, at this point, it appears that there is 'some' oil in the charge pipe, whether it's engine blowby, or turbo seals, and there is coolant, and I think that is more concerning to me. Where does coolant in the charge pipe come from?
 

csstevej

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2001 golf tdi 4 door auto now a manual, mine, 2000 golf 2 door M/T son's,daughters 98 NB non-TDI 2.0, 2003 TDI NB for next daughter, head repaired and on road,gluten for punishment got another tdi 2001NB,another yellow tdi NB
I’d be looking at the egr cooler for an internal leak , leaking into the charge pipe.

Yes there is a flex pipe which is probably broken.
You can get a replacement one and weld it in.
 

mk4mr

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1999 Jetta TDI
I’d be looking at the egr cooler for an internal leak , leaking into the charge pipe.

Yes there is a flex pipe which is probably broken.
You can get a replacement one and weld it in.
This car has had EGR delete. Will the cooler still be there? I don't think it is, but to be honest, I haven't verified. I know there's no EGR valve at least...
 

turbocharged798

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99.5 black ALH Jetta;09 Gasser Jetta
I would disconnect the boost piping from the turbo and make darn sure there isn't oil pooling in the intercooler.


Sounds like the engine is healthy though.
 
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mk4mr

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I would disconnect the boost piping from the turbo and make darn sure there isn't oil pooling in the intercooler.


Sounds like the engine is healthy though.
I completely drained the intercooler and the piping has not been reconnected since(on the charge side). Nothing but oil came out of the intercooler when I drained it. There is water vapor in the IC charge pipe when the car warms up(and a little oil).
 

mk4mr

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1999 Jetta TDI
With the EGR cooler already gone the places coolant can be coming from as you describe are all bad.
I looked at the car a little closer this afternoon and found that while the EGR valve is long gone, the EGR cooler is still in place. I don't know if I'll be that lucky, but maybe the coolant is coming from there. I'll be removing this as soon as I can.
 

csstevej

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2001 golf tdi 4 door auto now a manual, mine, 2000 golf 2 door M/T son's,daughters 98 NB non-TDI 2.0, 2003 TDI NB for next daughter, head repaired and on road,gluten for punishment got another tdi 2001NB,another yellow tdi NB
That would be the only place it could come from......
 

mk4mr

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1999 Jetta TDI
That would be the only place it could come from......
Would a leaky head gasket do the same thing? The odd thing(to me) is that for the first maybe 10 minutes, there is no vapor to be seen. Only after the engine is warm does it appear. I don't know if it's hot enough for the thermostat to open...I didn't check the hoses at the radiator.

Today, when I got home from work, I tinkered for a little bit. I took the oil fill cap off and I could tell there was condensation on it, but it was not milky, it was very clear...like drinking water. I still don't see any signs of water on the dipstick. I'm in the process of pulling all air piping off to thoroughly clean them all and to remove the egr cooler. Everything is caked in muck.
 

csstevej

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north nj
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2001 golf tdi 4 door auto now a manual, mine, 2000 golf 2 door M/T son's,daughters 98 NB non-TDI 2.0, 2003 TDI NB for next daughter, head repaired and on road,gluten for punishment got another tdi 2001NB,another yellow tdi NB
There is nothing in the intake track other than the egr cooler that has any coolant involved.

A bad head gasket is either gonna be milky oil ( not likely ) or black soot/ oil in the coolant system ( more than likely ).

My bet would still be the EGR cooler as he has stated that it’s still in place and not removed as posted below.

“ I looked at the car a little closer this afternoon and found that while the EGR valve is long gone, the EGR cooler is still in place.”
Just my .02.
 

mk4mr

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Mid Tenn.
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1999 Jetta TDI
I removed the EGR cooler today after work. I honestly couldn't tell that there was anything wrong, but who knows. When looking into one of the water outlet, the inside was very clean but I guess that's possible since the pressure on the EGR side wouldn't be that much. Time will tell I guess. I don't have enough hose to re-attach to the heater core connector yet, so that's gotta be obtained.

I had enough daylight left to change the oil, so I jumped on that. I loosened the fill cap and crawled under and removed the plug. I initially thought there was nothing in the pan, but finally a very thick stream of black 'oil' oozed out. It was the thickest goo I've ever seen come out of an engine. I pulled the filter out, and the oil was so thick that you couldn't even see the pleats in the oil filter, and as I pulled it out of the engine(wasn't stuck in the filter cap), the filter was heavy and really looked like a slick, shiny silicon hose. The oil didn't drip right away, and didn't soak through the pleats. So what in the heck does this mean? I'm letting it drain until tomorrow afternoon when I get home from work...it'll probably take that long anyway...haha...

 

mk4mr

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1999 Jetta TDI
Looks like I need guidance on posting pics....anyone?

That is the filter by the way....:eek:
 

tjsean0308

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port angeles, wa
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MKIV wagon 5spd graphite blue
That just looks like very old diesel oil. You (self admittedly) have a lot to learn about the ways of the oil burner. Fortunately you are in the right place.

This car was neglected, that's what this sludge says. Diesel oil will tend to thicken and get acidic when its not changed on time. Thick oil fails at lubricating the turbo bushings and then you pump oil straight into the intake.

Fill it back up with Napa 15-40 which is good oil but affordable to experiment with while you figure out what's up with this engine.

You've got a long road ahead of you, good luck.
 

mk4mr

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Mid Tenn.
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1999 Jetta TDI
That just looks like very old diesel oil. You (self admittedly) have a lot to learn about the ways of the oil burner. Fortunately you are in the right place.

This car was neglected, that's what this sludge says. Diesel oil will tend to thicken and get acidic when its not changed on time. Thick oil fails at lubricating the turbo bushings and then you pump oil straight into the intake.

Fill it back up with Napa 15-40 which is good oil but affordable to experiment with while you figure out what's up with this engine.

You've got a long road ahead of you, good luck.
I've been on a long road for years, so I'm not afraid. When you reach the point where you have nothing else to learn, geez, I think you're done.

There is a local Napa, so I'll pick up the oil. Is this a diesel formula? A synthetic, or just a plain dino-oil?

Thanks for the info about the oil I drained out. Never had oil like this on a gas vehicle, so I was a little concerned. Well, I'm still concerned, but glad to know it's been seen and doesn't mean certain death.

I'm anxious to check the turbo for issues next.
 
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