3 Bar map upgrade & tuning? ALH 1.9

jshwamie

Active member
Joined
Jan 19, 2017
Location
Michigan
TDI
2000 Golf tdi
I have a new SMIC with 2.5 lower plumbing. rocketchip stage 3, VR6 Clutch, 11mm pump with lift pump. EGR Delete, Kerma TDI Long Runner intake manifold, 2.5 DP - str8 pipe. PP520 nozzles, bilstein suspension with coil overs. Running stock gt1749v turbo. I will be putting a stage 2 or 3 cam in, with head studs and would like to do something with the turbo eventually here. Maybe try to hybridize it somehow to squeeze 200hp (which is my goal for this car) out of it, or upgrade to gt1749vb which I could make 17/22 or go for 1726 instead (daily driver so like the faster spool).
With that said. I would like to upgrade to a 3 bar MAP. I read that u can't just slap it in and be done. You have to adjust some sort of tuning. Can someone explain this a little for me? Keep in mind I have a rocketchip, and I can't seem to get them to reply to me. Basically I want to know if I can buy some software or something and adjust what I need to make the 3 bar work, or would I have to get a new custom tune from say Kerma TDi. Thanks in advance.
 

Nevada_TDI

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 17, 2008
Location
Reno, sort of...
TDI
2001 Jetta TDI
Your current tune is written for a 2.5 bar MAP sensor, and if you went to a 3 bar MAP sensor then your tune would need to be rescaled to use the upgraded sensor. At this point there is really no reason to upgrade the MAP sensor without upgrading to a turbo that would be happy at 24 PSI and above.
 

jshwamie

Active member
Joined
Jan 19, 2017
Location
Michigan
TDI
2000 Golf tdi
Hm. Okay. I think I'll have to upgrade my turbo soon here so might have to do just that. Can RC be scaled like that if I do? I've been finding an intermittent loss of power when I get on it. One day it's perfect and the next day you can tell it's just not all there when u punch it. I was starting to notice black smoke when under load as well. My car runs clean as heck and barely would you see black smoke, suddenly am.

Yesterday I turned my car on and my oil light came on and I was missing about 3/4 quart of oil in about 5 days. Prior never lost a drop in 2600 miles. I know I have a bad injector gasket after whomever installed the #3 left it loose. Tightened but it's still puffing black around it. So that and a faintly leaking oil filter gasket are the only signs of anything off. Im going to check my intercooler for oil (upgraded to SMIC in the past month or so) and there was little oil in the stock system. I fear there may be a lot and my turbo is on its way out...
 

Owain@malonetuning

Associate Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Jul 1, 2016
Location
Vancouver
TDI
335d, 05 jetta wagon, 84 jetta td
Sounds like you're not making optimal boost at times, hence the smoke (unless it's blue..). Turbo might be on it's way out, best to do some boost logging to see how it's behaving. Block 11 covers requested vs actual and N75 %s. This turbos good for 18 PSI or so, anything past 20 is dangerous.
 
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jshwamie

Active member
Joined
Jan 19, 2017
Location
Michigan
TDI
2000 Golf tdi
So I cleaned up that injector got a new copper ring for it and put it back in. Checked for boost leaks and see if everything was operating fine with the wastegate. All good there. I didn't get time to pull the boost pipe off the intercooler to see if there was a lot of oil in there though.

We went for a ride and kinda watched everything good. You can tell when you gun it the turbo will intermittently fall off and not create boost. So I don't know if this is the tune doing this or what. Have that stage 3 RC. Never did this before though that's why I don't get it. I can pull the MAF off and there is no change. I attempted to reach out to RC but I can't get them to respond for the life of me. At this point think I'm gunna save up and get a custom tune. Not sure what else to do.

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flee

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 19, 2011
Location
Chatsworth, CA
TDI
2002 Jetta GLS wagon
If there is no change when you disconnect the MAF then try replacing the MAF.
You're not using a K&N, are you?
 

jshwamie

Active member
Joined
Jan 19, 2017
Location
Michigan
TDI
2000 Golf tdi
Hello,
No k&n. Stock airbox, which from what I understand will flow enough air to get me to my 200ish hp goal. I took out the snowscreen and that tube all together. I have checked the box for contamination and debris.
As for the MAF. What I could do maybe is borrow my friends from his car that is running good. That should do it hey. If it works better I'll know.
There is still the mystery of where that nearly quart of oil went. But Im assuming it's in my intercooler. Question is. Why.
 

jshwamie

Active member
Joined
Jan 19, 2017
Location
Michigan
TDI
2000 Golf tdi
Sounds like you're not making optimal boost at times, hence the smoke (unless it's blue..). Turbo might be on it's way out, best to do some boost logging to see how it's behaving. Block 11 covers requested vs actual and N75 %s. This turbos good for 18 PSI or so, anything past 20 is dangerous.
Im going to do this this weekend. I should have time. I'll get some graphs and we'll see what happens. At least have some definitive proof. Then just need to see why.
 

jshwamie

Active member
Joined
Jan 19, 2017
Location
Michigan
TDI
2000 Golf tdi
Here is a video of me accelerating. It has lack of power all across and isn't accelerating as quick as it should. You can see when I'm in fifth gear and slow down to 2k and floor it. It drops RPM's and picks back up. That's where I'm losing my boost and my turbo is none existent. Same results with or without MAF plugged in.

https://youtu.be/E6SCgjD-kew

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hankymurphy

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 20, 2012
Location
North Jersey
TDI
'02 Jetta, '14 A6
Is that a clutch slip at the end or the motor stuttering? Possible the vanes on your turbo are sticking too. there are a few threads on here about how to clean that up, but if you are planning to upgrade the turbo soon, maybe don't even bother. Do you have VAGCOM?
 

Kevinski4

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Aug 31, 2007
Location
Nebraska
TDI
'00 ALH Jetta GLS
Well your clutch is slipping, that much is obvious. Without posting a Group 11 log of a 3rd gear pull there's not much else we can help you with.
 

jshwamie

Active member
Joined
Jan 19, 2017
Location
Michigan
TDI
2000 Golf tdi
You think that's the clutch slipping? I noticed that for the first time yesterday. It doesn't feel like a clutch slip, but Im no mechanic. Ive always experienced clutch slippage when shifting into a gear or starting from a stop. I had it in 5th, let it drop RPM and throttled it. This clutch was put in at 134k miles. I'm at about 230k now. It's Def probably about time for it to start going.
Hankymurphy I do have access to VAG. I'm going to get some recordings here this weekend. See what we come up with. Thanks for your input this far everyone. Cannot thank you enough. Having a hard time figuring this out so, your help is essential to fixing my problem.
 

jshwamie

Active member
Joined
Jan 19, 2017
Location
Michigan
TDI
2000 Golf tdi
Well your clutch is slipping, that much is obvious. Without posting a Group 11 log of a 3rd gear pull there's not much else we can help you with.
Im going to be getting a custom tune here. This RC is just too cookie cutter. I need to be able to adjust it and have a tune from somewhere that will actually reply to my emails.. I know my friend has a kerma tune, which he seems to like. But the Malone tune I've read and heard a lot of good as well. I live right in your area as well - Iron Mountain, MI.
 

Kevinski4

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Aug 31, 2007
Location
Nebraska
TDI
'00 ALH Jetta GLS
Im going to be getting a custom tune here. This RC is just too cookie cutter. I need to be able to adjust it and have a tune from somewhere that will actually reply to my emails.. I know my friend has a kerma tune, which he seems to like. But the Malone tune I've read and heard a lot of good as well. I live right in your area as well - Iron Mountain, MI.

No need for a "custom" tune, the RC3 you have is great. You have a mechanical issue with your car that needs to be fixed.
 

jshwamie

Active member
Joined
Jan 19, 2017
Location
Michigan
TDI
2000 Golf tdi
No need for a "custom" tune, the RC3 you have is great. You have a mechanical issue with your car that needs to be fixed.
Think so? I mean everyone is telling me to get a custom tune. All I know, I bought this car with the rc already applied and it hauled ass. Just now is bogging. Should be able to get some logs tomorrow.
 

Vince Waldon

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 25, 2009
Location
Edmonton AB Canada
TDI
2001 ALH Jetta, 2005 BEW Wagon
All I know, I bought this car with the rc already applied and it hauled ass. Just now is bogging.
That's a clue. :) The tune has clearly not changed, but the car is performing worse. Suggests the engine has developed a technical problem... one that a tune from someone else won't likely resolve.

If you lost a quart of oil you should probably track it down... and if it is in your intercooler you'd probably better drain it before the engine ingests it and bends a rod or two.

And, if it's in your intercooler it likely got there from the turbo seal on its way out.... which means the turbo is on borrowed time before it *really* lets go and bends a rod or two. :) :)
 

jshwamie

Active member
Joined
Jan 19, 2017
Location
Michigan
TDI
2000 Golf tdi
That's a clue. :) The tune has clearly not changed, but the car is performing worse. Suggests the engine has developed a technical problem... one that a tune from someone else won't likely resolve.

If you lost a quart of oil you should probably track it down... and if it is in your intercooler you'd probably better drain it before the engine ingests it and bends a rod or two.

And, if it's in your intercooler it likely got there from the turbo seal on its way out.... which means the turbo is on borrowed time before it *really* lets go and bends a rod or two. :) :)
This is true. My problem is gaining access to a lift. That's what has been slowin me down. I should be able to get to the shop and check it out tomorrow. Ive been thinking about my car pulling a runaway on me too.. :eek:. I'll get back with the results of logging. Thanks for sticking with me all.
 

flee

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Joined
Sep 19, 2011
Location
Chatsworth, CA
TDI
2002 Jetta GLS wagon
Harbor Freight has ramps for about $30 or so. Plenty of space to slide under and work.;)
 

jshwamie

Active member
Joined
Jan 19, 2017
Location
Michigan
TDI
2000 Golf tdi
Well your clutch is slipping, that much is obvious. Without posting a Group 11 log of a 3rd gear pull there's not much else we can help you with.
Okay well I have some logs here. Looks like they are in excel format. What is the best way to share files? Not seeing an attachment file button or anything. I have logs for 001 003 004 008 & 011.
 

jshwamie

Active member
Joined
Jan 19, 2017
Location
Michigan
TDI
2000 Golf tdi
I installed a vacuum gauge to the line that goes to the actuator on the turbo to see what the n75 valve is actually doing to the turbo and making sure it's working properly.
Here is a video of me driving. The pressure goes steadily below 5. Is this normal? I'm thinking not.

https://youtu.be/ILi9OGmOXtw
 

Enabled

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Joined
Apr 23, 2013
Location
Houston, TX
TDI
2003 Jetta TDI Manual, BMW 328d SW
19.5psi when requested is 17.7psi will shorten your turbo's life.
Make sure the actuator is adjusted correctly.
 

jshwamie

Active member
Joined
Jan 19, 2017
Location
Michigan
TDI
2000 Golf tdi
Here are the others.

003 MAF


001


008


004 (this one came out weird. Might have to do another)


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Kevinski4

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Aug 31, 2007
Location
Nebraska
TDI
'00 ALH Jetta GLS
That's a clue. :) The tune has clearly not changed, but the car is performing worse. Suggests the engine has developed a technical problem... one that a tune from someone else won't likely resolve.

If you lost a quart of oil you should probably track it down... and if it is in your intercooler you'd probably better drain it before the engine ingests it and bends a rod or two.

And, if it's in your intercooler it likely got there from the turbo seal on its way out.... which means the turbo is on borrowed time before it *really* lets go and bends a rod or two. :) :)
While you are right on the first part, every ALH out there has a puddle of oil in the intercooler and it's not from the turbo. It's from the CCV. It collects at the lowest point and there's always some in there. Waaay too many people have replaced turbos for no reason. I'm running one of those turbos that someone was throwing away on one of my cars. I've put 60k miles on it since the previous owner replaced the turbo because of oil in the intercooler.
 

jshwamie

Active member
Joined
Jan 19, 2017
Location
Michigan
TDI
2000 Golf tdi
While you are right on the first part, every ALH out there has a puddle of oil in the intercooler and it's not from the turbo. It's from the CCV. It collects at the lowest point and there's always some in there. Waaay too many people have replaced turbos for no reason. I'm running one of those turbos that someone was throwing away on one of my cars. I've put 60k miles on it since the previous owner replaced the turbo because of oil in the intercooler.
Yeah I at least know that much! Heh. I do think it's something mechanical at this point. Something is just off. I'm going to try taking off the stock air box and just let the pips vent open and drive on some pavement for a mile or so. See how it performs.

Does anyone know how to interpret those logs? I'm not sure really what I'm looking at as far as reading them and understanding what should be what, and when.

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Vince Waldon

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 25, 2009
Location
Edmonton AB Canada
TDI
2001 ALH Jetta, 2005 BEW Wagon
While you are right on the first part, every ALH out there has a puddle of oil in the intercooler and it's not from the turbo.
Just my opinion, but if someone loses 3/4 of a quart of oil in one week (per the OP's second post), and finds it sitting in their intercooler...well... my money's on it coming from the turbo, not the CCV. That would be awfully thick blowby. :) :)
 

jshwamie

Active member
Joined
Jan 19, 2017
Location
Michigan
TDI
2000 Golf tdi
19.5psi when requested is 17.7psi will shorten your turbo's life.
Make sure the actuator is adjusted correctly.
Thanks for the input. I will check this out. I know I have checked it and can see it went up and down a little, but haven't checked full motion. I took some pics, and there was a little oil between the exhaust and compressor housings. I'm thinking that shouldn't be there... Also the oil return line has oil on it.



Pic of oil return line.


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flee

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 19, 2011
Location
Chatsworth, CA
TDI
2002 Jetta GLS wagon
Yeah I at least know that much! Heh. I do think it's something mechanical at this point. Something is just off. I'm going to try taking off the stock air box and just let the pips vent open and drive on some pavement for a mile or so. See how it performs.
Does anyone know how to interpret those logs? I'm not sure really what I'm looking at as far as reading them and understanding what should be what, and when. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk
Your problem isn't with the airbox as long as there is no obstruction.
Did you swap the MAF yet?
 

swetbak

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Jan 7, 2015
Location
Ft. Myers, FL
TDI
01 Jetta GLS, 03 Jetta Wagon, 2010 335d
If you've checked for oil in your intercooler I've missed it. If you haven't yet checked this off your list, just drill a small hole in the smallest point of the intercooler pipe and see what drips out. When done put a small screw in the hole to close it. You can periodically check for oil this way.
 

jshwamie

Active member
Joined
Jan 19, 2017
Location
Michigan
TDI
2000 Golf tdi
If you've checked for oil in your intercooler I've missed it. If you haven't yet checked this off your list, just drill a small hole in the smallest point of the intercooler pipe and see what drips out. When done put a small screw in the hole to close it. You can periodically check for oil this way.
Thank you for the input. I checked for this, this past weekend. No significant pooling. So not sure where that oil went.. I'm guessing it burnt up I guess, because there are no significant leaks. I'm hoping someone can help me understand those logs and offer some insight.
 
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