3.0 Fuel Line Covered Under Warranty

leseiDQ7

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Joined
Aug 11, 2019
Location
SC
TDI
2012 Q7 TDI S-Line
Hi All,
2012 Q7 TDI. Thanks for all the great info I've found here when reading up on the TDI fix. First post. Apologies if I this should be posted in different place.
I have put 4,000 miles on my Audi in the past 5 months. An injector was replaced a couple months ago under warranty.

Last week the check engine light came on which was a Fault p0171 code according to the dealership. As seen in the pics linked it was due to a tear in a rubber hose on the fuel line going to the high pressure pump. Dealer says that this will not be covered under warranty due to it being from external causes. In all honesty this does make sense.

What doesn't make sense is how this tear could have occurred. I did have a non-Audi dealership repair shop do an alignment 5 days before the first code was registered in the computer. It is a reputable VW shop. But they should not have been anywhere near the top of the engine under the plastic cover right?

1. Could this be caused by a non-external factor and thus covered under warranty?

2. Do you think I might have a case that would be worth submitting to Audi Customer Care?

3. With the tear in the hose would it be able to run long without throwing a code? Meaning, is it possible that the tear was there the whole 4,000 miles I have owned it?

4. When I first got it 5 months/4,000 miles ago, I had the local VW repair shop do a service (fuel filter, exhaust fluid, oil and filter). Could having work done at the local shop void the warranty?

Thanks for your thoughts!

Links to pics below:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1OnqiEjUKjAyxuX5Jg4jYh1qjp4gyq32l/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ZOLKmWhTsViSkdN_RmeAJ9AqMmyyVZv2/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rUaw7nrt1LD5DA8bUTGbuC5py9lU4I2f/view?usp=sharing
 

leseiDQ7

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Joined
Aug 11, 2019
Location
SC
TDI
2012 Q7 TDI S-Line
Good call. The Audi dealership replaced the injector for cylinder 1.
 

hskrdu

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 17, 2003
Location
Maryland and New England
TDI
2003 Golf GLS 4D 5M, 2015 GSW SE 6M
An injector was replaced a couple months ago under warranty.

Last week the check engine light came on which was a Fault p0171 code according to the dealership.

I did have a non-Audi dealership repair shop do an alignment 5 days before the first code was registered in the computer.

1. Could this be caused by a non-external factor and thus covered under warranty?

2. Do you think I might have a case that would be worth submitting to Audi Customer Care?

3. With the tear in the hose would it be able to run long without throwing a code? Meaning, is it possible that the tear was there the whole 4,000 miles I have owned it?

4. When I first got it 5 months/4,000 miles ago, I had the local VW repair shop do a service (fuel filter, exhaust fluid, oil and filter). Could having work done at the local shop void the warranty?

1. I can't see the pictures that well (not your fault), but it looks more like someone handled the line poorly.
2. I can't speak to what issues Audi Cust Care handles, but if the tear in the line was from the Audi dealership, maybe that counts.
3. I don't know your engine to as well as others. I'm guessing it depends on the extent of the damage to the hose. Was there a fuel leak? Was it really there for 4,000 miles, or perhaps only since the replacement of the injector?
4. The warranty will not be voided by doing maintenance at a shop other than the dealership.

IMO the key is the work done on the injector. Someone should have seen the damage, or possibly it was caused during this service. The delay in documenting it, or getting a code, may mean that that having them cover it will be difficult.

Someone more familiar with your engine will see the pictures and add their input.
 

leseiDQ7

Member
Joined
Aug 11, 2019
Location
SC
TDI
2012 Q7 TDI S-Line
3. Yes there is a fuel leak which seems to have gotten worse. It's a small leak though. It still runs pretty much fine.
 

hskrdu

Top Post Dawg
Joined
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Location
Maryland and New England
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2003 Golf GLS 4D 5M, 2015 GSW SE 6M
3. Yes there is a fuel leak which seems to have gotten worse. It's a small leak though. It still runs pretty much fine.

Then perhaps the damage has been there since (a) purchase, or (b) the work done on the injector. Vibration and pressure may have slowly enlarged the tear, leading to a fuel leak that worsened as the the tear widened. If (a), it should have been fixed prior to sale, but without documentation it will be a tougher argument. If (b), it should have been fixed by the same shop that did the work, but again, without immediate pictures or a code, it's tougher to argue. If the original seller would work with you, they should help out at the 5 month mark, you've only put 4,000 miles on it, and it should be obvious that you didn't take a knife to your hoses. I'm guessing there are no power mods, or other reasons why you may have been working around the fuel lines?

This is all guesswork, really need someone who knows your engine better to have a good look at the pictures.
 

leseiDQ7

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Location
SC
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2012 Q7 TDI S-Line
No, no power mods. Have not been under the hood whatsoever since they put the new injector in. It has a fuel leak so it needs to get taken care of ASAP either way. Made an appointment to get the hose replaced at the Audi dealership today. The dealership is saying that it won’t be covered because that particular part is not one of the ones that is covered. The warranty says that it covers the entire fuel system. This is certainly part of the fuel system.
As for the “outside influences” I think you could just as easily make the argument that it started off as you said, as a little tear which could have occurred from the hose cracking and then eventually got bigger on it’s own.
I explained that I would be pursuing a warranty claim with customer service even though the dealer believes that it will not be covered. They said that they would spearhead this process. Is there a link to a place that has all the additional work that has been approved and added onto the warranty since the original warranty was put out?
Any suggestions as to how to frame my argument that this should be covered or how to go about it?
 

hskrdu

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 17, 2003
Location
Maryland and New England
TDI
2003 Golf GLS 4D 5M, 2015 GSW SE 6M
The warranty for TDIs covered by the agreements between VW and the EPA are 99% clear as to what's covered and duration. I know the wording pretty well for the Gen3 2.0L TDI, but you should have received a diesel specific warranty packet with your car. If yours is similar, the entire fuel system is covered, no question. It's also available from VAG, but check this thread:

https://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=477521
 

leseiDQ7

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SC
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2012 Q7 TDI S-Line
So I had the fuel line replaced. At first the dealer just flat out said that it was not covered so they would not be attempting to put it in under warranty. When I told them that that is fine and I understand, but I would be contacting Audi customer service to attempt to make a warranty claim, all of a sudden they said that they would do that for me. It took a couple days for them to get back to me (I had to bring it back in for an OBD light(O2 sensor))but when they did, the dealer said that it was in fact not covered. He said that it was not on the list of covered parts. I began to attempt to explain to him that I could not see how a fuel line would not be part of the “entire fuel system”, and that it absolutely was a “ Malfunction detected by the OBD system”. He fairly rudely expressed that he was not interested in listening which is, well, whatever as it has nothing to do with him or the dealership anymore I suppose. I asked him to see a copy of the response from Audi. He said that there was none as their warranty person just called Audi on the phone. Did they really even try?

1. At this point do I contact Audi customer support at 800-822-2834?
2. If Audi did in fact deny the claim, and tells me the same thing when I call them, is there any other recourse that anyone has found successful?
-it just seems ludicrous to say that a fuel line is not part of the entire fuel system and how else would I know that there was a malfunction if I didn’t see the OBD light come on??
 

bizzle

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Southern California
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2015 GSW SEL (totaled), 2013 Touareg Executive
This seems to be their new catch-all phrase. They are trying the same crap on me in regards to a coolant leak. My suggestion is to contact the Class Action Attorneys at:

ph 415.956.1000
fax 415.956.1008

Lieff Cabraser Heimann & Bernstein, LLP
275 Battery Street, 29th Floor
San Francisco, CA 94111-3339
www.lieffcabraser.com
 

hskrdu

Top Post Dawg
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Oct 17, 2003
Location
Maryland and New England
TDI
2003 Golf GLS 4D 5M, 2015 GSW SE 6M
Did you obtain a diesel specific warranty brochure that applies to your engine? Did you refer to it at the dealership? Check to see if the brochure includes the concluding statement: "Conflicts concerning the warranty are to be resolved in favor of the consumer."
 

leseiDQ7

Member
Joined
Aug 11, 2019
Location
SC
TDI
2012 Q7 TDI S-Line
This seems to be their new catch-all phrase. They are trying the same crap on me in regards to a coolant leak. My suggestion is to contact the Class Action Attorneys at:

ph 415.956.1000
fax 415.956.1008

Lieff Cabraser Heimann & Bernstein, LLP
275 Battery Street, 29th Floor
San Francisco, CA 94111-3339
www.lieffcabraser.com
Wow, what steps to take before Consulting an attorney?

Is this the firm that prosecuted the case originally?
 

leseiDQ7

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SC
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2012 Q7 TDI S-Line
Did you obtain a diesel specific warranty brochure that applies to your engine? Did you refer to it at the dealership? Check to see if the brochure includes the concluding statement: "Conflicts concerning the warranty are to be resolved in favor of the consumer."
I did receive them, I was planning on referencing that clause later but I didn’t even get past the first point about entire fuel system let alone OBG system malfunction for the service rep became belligerent and refused to talk to me anymore about it.
 

leseiDQ7

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2012 Q7 TDI S-Line
So Audi has created a list of parts that are covered and anything else is automatically denied. This is contradictory to the obvious intent of the way the settlement was worded. You don’t use words like “entire” fuel system or “any” malfunction of OBD if you are trying to limit the covered components.

Then, so as not to create a paper trail, if what the rep told me is true then instead of writing an email, or submitting claims that would include a claim reference number, they make a phone call so there is no record of it. Conjecture on my part but possible.
 

hskrdu

Top Post Dawg
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Location
Maryland and New England
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2003 Golf GLS 4D 5M, 2015 GSW SE 6M
I would call some other dealers, and speak with someone in service to sound out if all/many other departments are taking the same approach. You have the ability to reference the specific part number, and can ask very directly if replacement is covered under warranty as per the brochure. This will give an indication as to what course of action you'll have to take next.


IMO, there is not a lot to argue about in terms of the warranty (at least the brochures I have read), and you should be able to be reimbursed. How much effort it takes is another matter. I'm guessing that if you were able to rally other Audi owners to your support, that may help. The lat thing VAG needs is publicity that they aren't honoring the warranty connected to the emissions agreements.
 

bizzle

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Wow, what steps to take before Consulting an attorney?
Is this the firm that prosecuted the case originally?
Yes, that’s the original firm and they are tasked with representing us in situations like this. What you do before calling them depends on your tolerance for BS and how long you want to chase your tail. VW has already shown their hand to you. I waited two months, which was two months too long.
 

leseiDQ7

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Location
SC
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2012 Q7 TDI S-Line
Just got back from Audi. Paid for the work done on the fuel line. They claim they were doing me a favor because they got me a discount. When I asked again why it was denied under the warranty they said that it was not on the list of covered parts. When I asked to see the list he prefaced with “ I cannot I give you a copy of the list because of the red tape of not being able to be reproduced“. I said well then can I see the list to which he fumbled around on the computer for a little bit and then said that he was not able to find it. I got the service managers email Which he tried three times to not give me, so I can put this into writing. The lies deceit and bullying tactics that I have experienced have now made this personal. Really disappointing.
Good call, I will definitely reach out to some other dealerships to confirm or deny whether this is standard practice.
 

leseiDQ7

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2012 Q7 TDI S-Line
Yes, that’s the original firm and they are tasked with representing us in situations like this. What you do before calling them depends on your tolerance for BS and how long you want to chase your tail. VW has already shown their hand to you. I waited two months, which was two months too long.
Oh, wow that’s good. That’s exactly what I was looking for when I was asking about recourse before. Thanks!
 

bizzle

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2015 GSW SEL (totaled), 2013 Touareg Executive
The whole thing about them sending a part number in and getting a response from VWoA's warranty team seems to be standard operating procedure based on my similar experience. That said, how the dealership defines the failure plays some role in it. VWoA and their dealerships seem to be trying to enjoy their relationship both ways--you are required to diagnose and follow through repairs at dealerships in order to obtain warranty work, but when a problem arises the dealerships are "independent" from VWoA and they merely work in conjunction with one another. The dealership can also request goodwill discounts and VWoA can review and authorize them, but according to my local dealership's district manager, customer care can not initiate such requests. This is their little game of pointing fingers at one another until a customer gives up/in and then pays the bill. The part may in fact have come back as not covered, but the attorney's office explained they are not the final arbiter (not the dealership and not VWoA's warranty team).

If the dealership is refusing to honor the extended warranty terms, the attorneys can strip them of their ability to do *any* warranty work which is a substantial portion of their revenue (according to the paralegal I spoke with last week).

When you call in you'll want to ask for Amanda Poole's line since she seems to be the lead paralegal handling our class.
 

leseiDQ7

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2012 Q7 TDI S-Line
It’s funny that you say how they define the failure. I noticed when I got home today that on the bill it said the customer reported a fuel leak as opposed to what actually happened I noticed the OBD light was on indicating that it detected a malfunction and brought it in. Maybe they made a mistake, or maybe they’re trying to get out of the OBD clause.
There will be no cost to a consult with the attorney right?
 

bizzle

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It’s funny that you say how they define the failure. I noticed when I got home today that on the bill it said the customer reported a fuel leak as opposed to what actually happened I noticed the OBD light was on indicating that it detected a malfunction and brought it in. Maybe they made a mistake, or maybe they’re trying to get out of the OBD clause.
There will be no cost to a consult with the attorney right?
Yes, no cost to discuss this situation with the class attorneys. They have already been compensated to represent us in regards to settlement warranty coverage.

It's not a "consultation" in the way you might be thinking. They already represent us so they need to be informed of these kinds of refusals to honor the warranty terms so they can act upon that information. In my mind, a consultation would imply you having a conversation seeking advice. In this situation, you inform them of the violations of the settlement terms and they go after the dealership.
 

leseiDQ7

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Just heard back from Audi customer service that they are going to cover the fuel line. The person who finally got it approved said there is no list of approved parts. Meanwhile the lady I spoke to before her from the same department told me that yes, the dealer was correct, it was not on the list of parts that were approved so it is not covered. I asked her if the service rep was lying when he repeatedly told me that there is a list of parts that are approved. She didn’t have much of a answer for that. Nor did she have an answer as to why the service records were altered. I asked her why it was covered, under what part of the warranty made it covered but she said she didn’t know, it was just covered. She was nice so I didn’t really press.

I did nicely tell her that there are a number of things that occurred that are suspicious and it seems pretty obvious that the game is to give you the runaround, delay, stall tactics, etc. and most people will just cave and pay for the repair. Standard insurance practice. Pretty disappointing and frustrating. I’m just surprised that they tried to pull this BS with a case that seems so straightforward like mine. The word fuel is in the part.

I would still like to share everything that happened with the attorneys if they are interested. I have it all written down anecdotally. I left a message with them a couple days ago but have not heard back yet. It would be nice if They could put the pressure on Audi so everybody else doesn’t have to go through with this same level of BS.
 

hskrdu

Top Post Dawg
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Maryland and New England
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I'm glad that you pursued it and that it turned out well (after much effort). Given the clarity of the warranty and the situation VAG is in, I'm still surprised that a dealer would try to stall on a fuel related item. Let's hope it does not become a widespread action. I hadn't been to a dealer since 2003 until one of our MK7's went in, and they spent thousands under warranty without blinking an eye.
 

Lightflyer1

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No different from anything else. First deny, deny, deny until you can't anymore then cover it. Warranties of any kind even medical and social security. Those that keep pressing the issue usually get covered.
 

leseiDQ7

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Aug 11, 2019
Location
SC
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2012 Q7 TDI S-Line
Yes, no cost to discuss this situation with the class attorneys. They have already been compensated to represent us in regards to settlement warranty coverage.

It's not a "consultation" in the way you might be thinking. They already represent us so they need to be informed of these kinds of refusals to honor the warranty terms so they can act upon that information. In my mind, a consultation would imply you having a conversation seeking advice. In this situation, you inform them of the violations of the settlement terms and they go after the dealership.
After receiving Audi's approval to cover the repair, I heard back from the paralegal, Amanda Poole. She basically said that the law firm will help to get repairs covered if they are incorrectly being denied. She did not seem interested in discussing the other concerns I had about the shady dealings I had with the Audi dealership. In all honesty, this is mostly understandable and what I expected. It would be another huge can of worms to go after Audi for being difficult when covering the warranty.

My suggestion for anyone who is denied coverage, is to as bizzle said, quickly go through the levels. Don't let them give you the waiting game, run-around treatment. Don't bother with the back and forth.

1. If the dealership says not covered then call Audi Customer Experience at 1-800.822.2834. It might help to let them know that your next step if denied will be to contact Lieff Cabraser Heimann & Bernstein law firm.

2. Immediately after receiving denial from Audi, call the law firm at 415.956.1000.
 
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