2microntech - Helping to Keep Your Common Rail VW Alive!!

ChiTownPilot

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 11, 2013
Location
Valparaiso, IN
TDI
2013 Jetta TDI + Premium
Chill out man... I didn't mean to piss in your Cheerios. In a previous life I worked at numerous dealerships and have seen first hand that dealerships have some discretion when it comes to warranty coverage. Just didn't know if anyone has ever actually asked about it instead of making coverage assumptions. I also realize results may vary with this approach.
 

JSWTDI09

Top Post Dawg
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Jan 31, 2009
Location
Las Vegas, Nevada
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2009 JSW TDI (gone but not forgotten)
Has anyone with the kit ever asked their local dealership this "what if" question yet?
The problem with this is twofold:
1) Most of the people who have these mods installed (like me) have no intention of ever letting a VW dealer's service department touch (or even look at) my car. Unless they have been to this site, they know nothing about these modifications. I also doubt that most service writers and service managers would even understand what these mods do unless I (or you) explained it to them.
2) Who would you ask? ...a Service writer? (they are usually clueless), ...or the service manager? (if not clueless, he/she will probably toe the company line to protect his/her job). How about the dealership owner (if you can figure out who and where they are)? There is really nobody at a VW dealership that can honestly say for sure what they would do about this situation until the situation arises.

Add to this that the possibility that the person you ask might not work there anymore if/when your HPFP fails. Telling a service writer that the previous service manager approved it, won't buy you much sympathy, I fear.

Have Fun!

Don
 

tydaddy

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VeeDubTDI

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Chill out man... I didn't mean to piss in your Cheerios. In a previous life I worked at numerous dealerships and have seen first hand that dealerships have some discretion when it comes to warranty coverage. Just didn't know if anyone has ever actually asked about it instead of making coverage assumptions. I also realize results may vary with this approach.
Discretion in Volkswagen land (VW, Audi, Porsche, etc.) comes from the mother ship. Dealers have no say in what gets covered or denied... all they can do is make a recommendation or share observations with decision makers above them.
 

Kriesel

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2009
Location
Afton, MN
TDI
2006 Jetta TDI
On the flip side this system works as it already prevented a HPFP failure from becoming a major ordeal. Why the HPFP failed to begin with remains questionable but the system does work.
It works, and I still blame the pump failure on my own user error... haha

The problem with this is twofold:
1) Most of the people who have these mods installed (like me) have no intention of ever letting a VW dealer's service department touch (or even look at) my car.
This... When getting a new HPFP, I called my local dealer, in order to find out a price and such. After repeatedly telling him which pump I need over the course of about 10-15 mins on the phone with the parts department, the response I get is "This might be a dumb question, but where is the fuel pump?"

I understand that they need to look through the various parts diagrams in order to find the part, which then shows a part number, but you really didn't hear me explain the fuel system to you over the phone just now three times, and you have no idea where the pump on ANY vw diesel engine is? No, you're not going to touch this car...
 
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umrpunter

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2010
Location
Dallas TX
TDI
09' Black Jetta TDI manny tranny, tan pleather, wd6050 hd
Didn't you get the memo dude? It's a crime to ask what if, just tell yourself no for them lol.

Guys it's likely the answer is no for the various reasons stated above, but in this case not doing it is defaulting to the worst option. Ask, likely get denied, crack a beer and relax because you spent $400 to take your risk exposure from $6-10k (note exposure, I know VW is covering these things as of now) to $1K. That is what you are paying for.
 

FloridaJohn

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2012
Location
Palm Beach Gardens, FL
TDI
2012 Golf DSG - sold to VW
Look if you put this system on your car, your warranty is down the toilet. PERIOD. I don't don't see how this concept is hard to understand.
Because most people don't understand how car warranties work. From the link:

"The saving grace for consumers is the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act of 1975. The act states that a dealer must prove that aftermarket equipment caused the need for repairs before it can deny warranty coverage."

If you had one of these 2Micron systems on your car, and the HPFP failed, the dealership would probably initially blame the modifications on the 2Micron set-up. They would mainly do this because there is something "different" in the car.

However, once you explain what the system does, and that it basically just a filter, I think VW would cover it. Sure, you will probably have to fight for it, but there are people out there right now fighting to get VW to replace their fuel system after a HPFP failure with no modifications on their car at all. If anything, once you explain to VW what this system does, they will probably be happy to repair the car for free, because this system will prevent them from doing all the work they are doing right now (drop fuel tank, replace all the fuel lines, replace the HPFP, etc.)

My opinion, bottom line, is that warranty problems are a non-issue with this modification.
 

kjclow

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 26, 2003
Location
Charlotte, NC
TDI
2010 JSW TDI silver and black. 2017 Ram Ecodiesel dark red with brown and beige interior.
Sure, you will probably have to fight for it, but there are people out there right now fighting to get VW to replace their fuel system after a HPFP failure with no modifications on their car at all.
I've not heard of anyone in the US that is fighting to get their HPFP replaced by VW right now.
 

turbocharged798

Veteran Member
Joined
May 21, 2009
Location
Ellenville, NY
TDI
99.5 black ALH Jetta;09 Gasser Jetta
Because most people don't understand how car warranties work. From the link:

"The saving grace for consumers is the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act of 1975. The act states that a dealer must prove that aftermarket equipment caused the need for repairs before it can deny warranty coverage."

If you had one of these 2Micron systems on your car, and the HPFP failed, the dealership would probably initially blame the modifications on the 2Micron set-up. They would mainly do this because there is something "different" in the car.

However, once you explain what the system does, and that it basically just a filter, I think VW would cover it. Sure, you will probably have to fight for it, but there are people out there right now fighting to get VW to replace their fuel system after a HPFP failure with no modifications on their car at all. If anything, once you explain to VW what this system does, they will probably be happy to repair the car for free, because this system will prevent them from doing all the work they are doing right now (drop fuel tank, replace all the fuel lines, replace the HPFP, etc.)

My opinion, bottom line, is that warranty problems are a non-issue with this modification.
Uhm no. 2 micron's system modifies the HPFP, not simply adds a filter. It changes the routing of the fuel supply internal to the HPFP. This is a bit more than just adding a filter.

The MM warranty act you cited is other more extreme issues. For example if you put aftermarket rims on your car and the engine goes out, the car mfg cannot refuse to warranty because of the rims, they are unreleated.

But now if you modify your HPFP and it fails, they still have every right to refuse to warranty it.
 

psrumors

Veteran Member
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Location
Cartersville, GA
TDI
MK4
The Magnuson-Moss act was more to prevent manufactures from requiring their maintenance items (oil,plugs, coolant, etc) be used to keep the warranty in tact.
 

FloridaJohn

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2012
Location
Palm Beach Gardens, FL
TDI
2012 Golf DSG - sold to VW
Uhm no. 2 micron's system modifies the HPFP, not simply adds a filter. It changes the routing of the fuel supply internal to the HPFP. This is a bit more than just adding a filter.

The MM warranty act you cited is other more extreme issues. For example if you put aftermarket rims on your car and the engine goes out, the car mfg cannot refuse to warranty because of the rims, they are unreleated.

But now if you modify your HPFP and it fails, they still have every right to refuse to warranty it.
The dealer or VW still has to prove the modification was what caused the failure. Since the modification does not change how the rotating group in the pump operates, and that is what is failing, I don't see how they can do that.

Also, since there are tons of examples of pumps failing in a similar way, it should be easy to compare your pump to another failed pump (without modification) and show that they both have the same root cause.
 
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FloridaJohn

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2012
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Palm Beach Gardens, FL
TDI
2012 Golf DSG - sold to VW
The Magnuson-Moss act was more to prevent manufactures from requiring their maintenance items (oil,plugs, coolant, etc) be used to keep the warranty in tact.
That's part of it, but it also includes provisions for modifications to the vehicle. Here's another link describing the act in more detail. From this link:

"Under the Magnuson-Moss Act, a dealer must prove, not just vocalize, that aftermarket equipment caused the need for repairs before it can deny warranty coverage. If the dealer cannot prove such a claim — or it proffers a questionable explanation — it is your legal right to demand compliance with the warranty. The Federal Trade Commission administers the Magnuson-Moss Act and monitors compliance with warranty law."
 

JSWTDI09

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 31, 2009
Location
Las Vegas, Nevada
TDI
2009 JSW TDI (gone but not forgotten)
"Under the Magnuson-Moss Act, a dealer must prove, not just vocalize, that aftermarket equipment caused the need for repairs before it can deny warranty coverage. If the dealer cannot prove such a claim — or it proffers a questionable explanation — it is your legal right to demand compliance with the warranty. The Federal Trade Commission administers the Magnuson-Moss Act and monitors compliance with warranty law."
This is all true. However, the biggest issue is that if the dealer (or VWoA) decides that they will deny warranty coverage, you will have to take them to court to argue their decision. By the time you hire a lawyer and take all the time necessary to fight their decision, it can be more expensive that actually paying for the repairs. If you win, VW will have to pay you back, but most people just give up and do not bother to "lawyer up" to fight for warranty coverage.

Have Fun!

Don
 

FloridaJohn

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2012
Location
Palm Beach Gardens, FL
TDI
2012 Golf DSG - sold to VW
This is all true. However, the biggest issue is that if the dealer (or VWoA) decides that they will deny warranty coverage, you will have to take them to court to argue their decision. By the time you hire a lawyer and take all the time necessary to fight their decision, it can be more expensive that actually paying for the repairs. If you win, VW will have to pay you back, but most people just give up and do not bother to "lawyer up" to fight for warranty coverage.
Yep, it's not without it's risk. But there is also a risk that your car may be the first one VW decides it will no longer cover the costs to repair (without the mod).
 

VeeDubTDI

Wanderluster, Traveler, TDIClub Enthusiast
Joined
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Location
La Conner, WA
TDI
2018 Tesla Model 3: 217,000 miles
The actual act should be referenced, not websites which interpret the act.

You would have a tough time hiding behind MMWA for modifying the fundamental operating functions of mechanical parts, which is exactly what the "pure flow" kit does.
 

Revpeach

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 25, 2012
Location
Monticello, IA
TDI
2012 Jetta
I've added both of Andrew's kits to my Jetta. They are extremely well done. If and when they are available, you will not displeased with what you get. As for me, even if VW is covering the repairs, I don't want my local dealer touching the car. They couldn't even change the fuel filter correctly. I had to take it back after the "free service" because it was leaking. I can't imagine what would happen if they had my whole fuel system apart.
 

2micron

Vendor
Joined
Mar 23, 2012
Location
Canada
TDI
None
Hello All, There are several kits out there and 1000's of miles!! I'd like the help from all the "pioneering spirit" members with some feedback please.
Please look very carefully for any areas that are rubbing or chafing the hoses. During your install, it is very important to make sure all the rubber lines are clear, not rubbing and have smooth bends.
Now after a few miles, let's all see how the kits are settling in!!
Here's a post from a long time ago, identifying a potential rubbing point:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=4244879&postcount=81 .
Here are some pictures:

.
Look at the hose from the Auxiliary pump to the new splitting block and Banjo fittings.
It should not contact the new filter bracket:

.
It is easily repositioned by rotating the banjo fitting clockwise, or shortening the hose slightly.
Another fix, already mentioned by someone here, is to install one of the rubber bumpers from the original fuel line, that you removed:

.
.
Another area to inspect for rubbing, is the small Factory 90 degree hose, exiting the HPFP, Ensure it is clear of the newly added stainless steel "U shaped" tube:

Seen above, directly right of the Fuel Metering valve.
.
Leaks:
We cannot have any leaks, period.
Run routine checks, monitoring for leaks. All kits now include a new sealing washer for the Aux Pump fitting, which is known to leak. Ensure the banjo bolts and hose clamps are tightened per installation instructions.
If you find a leak, please find out why and fix it immediately. Post the leak and why.
It is very important not to have leaks.
If any leaks are found, inspect your serpentine belt. Replace the belt if You find traces of any diesel on it.
Thanks for the help,
Please post any feedback,
Andrew
.
Hello all!!
Another friendly reminder to make sure none of your hoses are rubbing.
A member recently had a hose rubbing and suffered a leak.
Please make sure this can not happen to your kit!!!
The hose in question is from the Electric Aux pump to the new 2Microntech Splitter. If the hose is 1/4" - 3/8" too long, it puts an extra wide loop, allowing it to rest on the new Filter bracket.
Many options, trim the hose length slightly, reducing the bend as well as installing the Original Factory Bumper that came on the removed hose. Quite a few members install their own version of a rubber bumper, heater hose or plastic Sheath, all very creative and effective.
.
Here is the hose that was subject to rubbing and failed:

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Here is what it should look like, Rubber bumper installed:

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As always, Please keep an eye for leaks, if any found, fix them right away and let us all know.
Thanks,
All the best,
Andrew
 

tydaddy

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 20, 2008
Location
Lancaster, PA
TDI
Sold - 2003 GLI, 2003 TDI Wagon, 2010 TDI Sportwagen, 2010 Touareg v6TDI, 2005 TDI Wagon, current - 2006 v10TDI
Greatest customer service ever.
 

bobt2382

Veteran Member - TDIClub Contributor
Joined
Aug 1, 2009
Location
NJ
TDI
2010 CW GOLF 4DR 6MT TDI
Greatest customer service ever.
^CONCUR!

I checked my hoses a couple of weeks ago during the OEM fuel filter change.

Hope to see notification of kit availability soon so that folks can get these on their cars! I use a fuel additive (Optilube) combined with both kits I feel more confident about minimizing the impact of any possible HPFP failure.

Keep up the great work Andrew.
 

camboscams

Well-known member
Joined
May 6, 2014
Location
Virginia
TDI
2014 JSW Stg 2 Malone, CP3 HPFP
^^^Awesome, as soon as these are available again I will be placing my order for the full kit.
 

mishkaya

TDIClub Contributor
Joined
Mar 4, 2005
Location
Iowa
TDI
'06 Jetta 5MT, '10 JSW MT, '14 JSW 6MT
^^^Awesome, as soon as these are available again I will be placing my order for the full kit.
You might want to just put yourself on the waiting list if you haven't already done so. It will most certainly save you time...
 

tydaddy

Veteran Member
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Sep 20, 2008
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TDI
Sold - 2003 GLI, 2003 TDI Wagon, 2010 TDI Sportwagen, 2010 Touareg v6TDI, 2005 TDI Wagon, current - 2006 v10TDI
You might want to just put yourself on the waiting list if you haven't already done so. It will most certainly save you time...
Mishkaya! Looks like you got a '14! Congrats man.
 

Aldon

Member
Joined
Mar 13, 2014
Location
Washington, DC
TDI
2009 Jetta built 12/2008
What an HPFP at start of failure sounds like

Follow-up to my post in March when I bought my 2009 Jetta DSG (65K miles) from a VW dealer in Maryland, fortunately with the 2-year VW-Certified warranty. I negotiated a "we owe" for a new HPFP as part of the purchase in an attempt to minimize risk to the degree possible without having one of 2Micron's kits. Dealer said they had to order the HPFP and, for weeks and weeks, said they could not obtain one. The matter then fell off my radar screen for a while.

Anyway, last week rolls around, and I started hearing a new, high-pitched whine from the engine (moderate volume, almost electrical-sounding whine, pitch following the engine RPMs). The whine appeared once the engine was warmed up and ONLY AFTER having exceeded 2100 RPM at least once. HPFP paranoia kicked in, and I called AAA for a tow to the good people at Wheaton Service Center. They popped the filter, and found no metal in it, but did confirm that the whine was coming from the HPFP. I then towed it to the VW dealer, who acknowledged the whine and replaced the HPFP under warranty, charging me only for a new fuel filter, which I decided not to argue about.

Interestingly, the dealer wrote on the paperwork that not only was the pump whining but the engine was cutting out (which it wasn't...yet....). Not sure whether that was required in order to get VW to approve the replacement of the HPFP before it actually failed, but I suppose I don't really care, as I avoided the impending HPFP failure and all the attendant grief of a full fuel-system replacement, even under warranty. I tried to get the old HPFP out of them (to contribute to the forum's research), but they pleaded core-return requirements and wouldn't give it to me.

In any case, keep your ears out for any new high-pitched whines from the engine that behave as described above. If it suddenly sounds different, something IS different..... Could save you some money.

Andrew, please don't drop me off the list!
 

pawel

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 19, 2008
Location
Naugatuck, CT
TDI
'09 TDI 6 MT, Platinum Gray Metallic, Anthracite Interior
An update to my install. After 23k miles on full kit (176k miles on car) I have no major issues to report. The only part that failed was pressure gauge that came with the kit. The replacement worked fine for about few hundred miles. After that, the needle jumps rapidly on fully warmed engine at idle.

My fuel kit after 23k miles.



Slow leak location on the bottom of the fitting. Fuel does not drip from the fitting but it's "wet" with diesel.



Cold temperature fuel pressure. Pressure is 11 psi. Needle is stationary. On throttle increase pressure increases by 2 to 3 psi.



Operating temperature (184 to 194 degrees) fuel pressure. Needle rapidly jumps readings. It gets more stable under throttle application.

 
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