23N5 software update thread to address turbo failures

[Jim13tdi]

Hmmm, I have a 2013 and just had 40k service done today,they said they took care of the recall. However on the work order it says 23n7 battery tdi update, nothing anywhere about 23n5 recall. Wonder what's up and what's the battery update?

 

[VeeDubTDI]

Ranger Pride: I still call BS on the service done to your car. I will make a phone call to my trusty SA at Stohlman VW on Monday and ask the question.

Ask him what 23N7 does. It might be something completely different.

 

[tdiatlast]

Ask him what 23N7 does. It might be something completely different.

...ooops...(it's the official Texas state exclamation!) I didn't catch the different number.
I'll make the phone call anyway.

 

[Locoelectrician]

I've had my car in 3 times for a "stumble" that happens with the cruise control on at 28 mph which seems to be the DSG trying to shift from 3rd to 4th but failing (sotp observation). They did the software update hoping it would correct it but it did not. On the 3rd visit they talked to the "help line" who informed them this was a normal characteristic when the O2 sensors switched from open to closed loop operation. Not much info for this thread about the campaign, but maybe insight to those experiencing the stumble I keep reading about here.

 

[VeeDubTDI]

I've had my car in 3 times for a "stumble" that happens with the cruise control on at 28 mph which seems to be the DSG trying to shift from 3rd to 4th but failing (sotp observation). They did the software update hoping it would correct it but it did not. On the 3rd visit they talked to the "help line" who informed them this was a normal characteristic when the O2 sensors switched from open to closed loop operation. Not much info for this thread about the campaign, but maybe insight to those experiencing the stumble I keep reading about here.

Can you reproduce this any time at any engine temperature? Or does it only happen during the first mile or two of driving in the morning?

 

[Locoelectrician]

Can you reproduce this any time at any engine temperature? Or does it only happen during the first mile or two of driving in the morning?

Does it once per cold start, only in the winter. Severity varies. Only within the first mile of driving. When I leave work I drive up a 1/4 mile hill and then turn on a straight flat road that is about a mile long. I set the cruise on 28 and the car sits at about 1900rpm for a while and then sometimes shifts to 4th but most times bucks and then continues in 3rd for a while and then shifts to 4th. Has done this since new. Before the update it would do it at any water temp up to 150f but it seems to happen at lower temps since the update. I feel it less now but it's still there, usually around 80 to 90f if I recall. Never does it in the morning because it is plugged in (frostheater) on a 3 hour timer before I leave for work. May not make sense, but seems worst when the ambient temp is 30-40. Not as bad in single digits and not existent in summer. I start the car after work and do not move it until the water temp is at least 50.

 

[VeeDubTDI]

That's what I figured. The jolt/buck you're feeling is the exhaust throttle closing most of the way as the emissions equipment warm-up mode is initiated. It closes, the turbo makes more boost pressure, and the injectors start to do post-injection (after top dead center) in order to superheat the exhaust system and get the catalytic converters up to temperature quickly. It's this increase in engine backpressure that is causing the hiccup in power delivery.

You'll notice this happens shortly after you shift to 3rd gear (same thing on the DSG) when the coolant temperature is above about 85-90 degrees.

This is a normal operation of the system and not indicative of any problems that need to be corrected. You should, however, drive gently when this is taking place. It is easy to monitor it (and see what the exhaust temps are) with something like a ScanGaugeII.

 

[VeeDubTDI]

Another thought on the subject, if you're on undulating roads where the cruise control is on and off the throttle, you will feel the hiccup several times. The exhaust throttle opens back up when the accelerator is released (same with CC active).

I can actually cruise around my campus parking lot slowly in third gear and make the car buck on command.

My suggestion for this is to wait another two or three minutes before setting your cruise control in the morning. Or you could put the transmission into manual or sport mode (3rd gear instead of 4th) for that same extra 2-3 minutes.

 

[Locoelectrician]

Fantastic explanation, better than the dealer could do. I do have a scangauge which is how I noted such specific temps. Thanks. Am I correct to wait until at least 50f before driving off? I'm about as light and gentle as can be for the first 2 miles. Never over 2k and water temp of usually 135 before I creep onto the highway.

 

[Locoelectrician]

I only use the CC in this instance because it is a long slow road (25mph limit) that the police love to nab people on.

 

[VeeDubTDI]

Fantastic explanation, better than the dealer could do. I do have a scangauge which is how I noted such specific temps. Thanks. Am I correct to wait until at least 50f before driving off? I'm about as light and gentle as can be for the first 2 miles. Never over 2k and water temp of usually 135 before I creep onto the highway.

I think waiting for 50F coolant is a good practice. It certainly isn't going to hurt anything. I usually wait for DPF temp to reach 250F before driving off (2-3 minutes at idle).

 

[Locoelectrician]

I read EGT CAT water temp, and boost. I don't see DPF as a selectable gauge (nor know exactly what it is) but suspect it would have to be entered as another xgauge. Would DPF be better than CAT? I read CAT to monitor regens. If this is straying too far off topic it could go to PMs. If thought beneficial to the community, then so be it.

 

[Busydiver]

Hesitation disappeared

Since the software change i have felt no hiccup like I did before, the egt 1 temps slowly ramp up to 1100 or so when I hit 90 degreees. i have a polar unit. I have been able to minimize the egt 1 temps during this period by easing off on the throttle as i drive the mile or so on city streets to the freeway. My car is in a non heated insulated garage and i let it warm up for a few minutes to about 75 or so before I start to drive.

 

[TurboDieselPoint]

Those of you concerned that your 2015 may need an update should enter the VIN of the Passat in question into VW's Recall and Service Campaign search. It's on VW's website under the owner's section.

If you need the supposed 23N7, it'll show up. If it's needed I think the website will also provide a description of its purpose, clearing up any doubt about whether it is for the emissions warm-up routine or indeed just some sort of battery update.

Oh, and be sure to share your findings with the rest of us!

TurboDieselPoint

 

[tdiatlast]

I only use the CC in this instance because it is a long slow road (25mph limit) that the police love to nab people on.

...if you'd stop speeding (CC at 28mph), maybe it wouldn't hiccup?

Great analysis, VeeDub. We have to accept some idiosyncratic behavior, with all these systems switching off and on. I still have to chuckle at my '09 JSW, because under certain warm-up conditions (around 32f), during a 2-3 upshift, the exhaust makes a "sneezing" sound that initially startled me. Now I'm used to it.

 

[tdiatlast]

Since the software change i have felt no hiccup like I did before, the egt 1 temps slowly ramp up to 1100 or so when I hit 90 degreees. i have a polar unit. I have been able to minimize the egt 1 temps during this period by easing off on the throttle as i drive the mile or so on city streets to the freeway. My car is in a non heated insulated garage and i let it warm up for a few minutes to about 75 or so before I start to drive.

That's my pattern, as well. I still find 1100f alarming, but it gets there much more gradually.
I wish I could get my wife (it's her car) to have the same pattern, although she is a more gentle driver than I. She just returned from a 600mile road trip. When I exclaimed how pleased I was to see 46mpg on the MFI, she said she never looked at the readout the entire trip (I'm looking at it every few hundred yards!!!)

 

[Locoelectrician]

...if you'd stop speeding (CC at 28mph), maybe it wouldn't hiccup?

Can't help myself. 28 in a 25 at 41 years old makes me feel ALIVE!

 

[VeeDubTDI]

I read EGT CAT water temp, and boost. I don't see DPF as a selectable gauge (nor know exactly what it is) but suspect it would have to be entered as another xgauge. Would DPF be better than CAT? I read CAT to monitor regens. If this is straying too far off topic it could go to PMs. If thought beneficial to the community, then so be it.

DPF is "Cat B1S1" so it sounds like you're already monitoring it.

Are you a crazy electrician or a locomotive electrician? Perhaps a crazy locomotive electrician?

 

[Locoelectrician]

DPF is "Cat B1S1" so it sounds like you're already monitoring it.

Are you a crazy electrician or a locomotive electrician? Perhaps a crazy locomotive electrician?

All 3 would be correct. Locomotive electrician by trade, crazy for sure, and just a general OCD electronics nerd by nature. Lately more of a locomotive electrical engineer, withouth the degree. I design and (much more fun) dictate, electrical systems for locomotives my company leases out to all of North America. Big old 645 cubic inch per cylinder Diesel engines whose sole purpose is to spin a generator (or alternator) and give me a purpose.

 

[VeeDubTDI]

That's pretty awesome gig. I love trains.

 

[Locoelectrician]

That's pretty awesome gig. I love trains.

Haha. Me too. If you're ever in northeast Ohio, look me up. I'll give you the nickle tour.

 

[VeeDubTDI]

Will do for sure! I'm up there periodically.

Sorry for the derailment (hah!) ... back to your regularly scheduled software update discussion.

 

[tyrntlzrdking]

23N7
Oh look a squirrel!

 

[VeeDubTDI]

Cute little bugger, too!

 

[jrm]

Anyone else have zero time to swing past the dealer for the 23N5? These 7-7 shifts plus a hour commute just leave zero time with my day off being Sundays

 

[VeeDubTDI]

Anyone else have zero time to swing past the dealer for the 23N5? These 7-7 shifts plus a hour commute just leave zero time with my day off being Sundays

Well that stinks. If you can swing it, they can probably have you in and out in under 30 minutes.

 

[Confused]

Anyone else have zero time to swing past the dealer for the 23N5? These 7-7 shifts plus a hour commute just leave zero time with my day off being Sundays

I'm in the same position. Finally got mine in yesterday. I somehow have to find time to go back for a head unit replacement. I told him it may be 3-4 weeks.

 

[JdC Machine]

Anyone else have zero time to swing past the dealer for the 23N5? These 7-7 shifts plus a hour commute just leave zero time with my day off being Sundays

Couldn't hurt to try talking to a service or even general manager at a local dealership and see if they could arrange for you to come in on a Sunday. Bonus to that, without other techs there, their network would be pretty much wide open and probably make for a quick download. I believe the actual update from their system would be done wirelessly or through a wired connection, both through the OBD2 plug.. Mine was done with a Bluetooth receiver (I believe).

 

[JdC Machine]

That's interesting. I wonder if this is all TDI's or VW's in general. No other "recall" showed up for mine last Wednesday when I took it to the dealer for the 23N5.

 

[jrm]

sounds like its done similar to a bios update on a PC, in the future model years it would be sweet if they could push these updates over the air via car-net way more cost effective.