2019 is the last year for Sportwagens and Alltracks

romad

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Palermo, State of Jefferson/Prescott, AZ
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2005 Jetta GLS Wagon "Cranberry"
Well, not everywhere. It was a Bora Variant in the UK. But on the Continent I think it was always a Golf.

That's funny, my 2005 Mk 4 Jetta Wagon is listed as a Golf Estate in the UK. "Variant" seems to have been used by VW elsewhere though. The car body form called "station wagon" in these United States was historically called "Estate" in the UK, and "Variant" by VW in Germany. FYI for some reason the term 'Break" is used in France!
 

Hwycruiser

Well-known member
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Jul 27, 2014
Location
DFW, Texas
TDI
2002 Black Golf GLS
I think you guys haven’t been to a dealership to look at the new models lately. I stand by my position that the 2019 Tiguan is an overgrown 2019 Jetta and the 2019 Golf wagon is a 2019 Golf hatchback with a larger cargo area. There is a difference between the Jetta sedan and Golf hatchback but when you compare the CUV vs the wagon they have similarities.
 

romad

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 27, 2011
Location
Palermo, State of Jefferson/Prescott, AZ
TDI
2005 Jetta GLS Wagon "Cranberry"
I think you guys haven’t been to a dealership to look at the new models lately. I stand by my position that the 2019 Tiguan is an overgrown 2019 Jetta and the 2019 Golf wagon is a 2019 Golf hatchback with a larger cargo area. There is a difference between the Jetta sedan and Golf hatchback but when you compare the CUV vs the wagon they have similarities.

You obviously don't understand that the wagon is derived from the 5-door Golf and considered part of the Golf model line by VW. But for the North American market, VW re-badged it as part of the Jetta model line, and to reinforce it, removed the Golf-style front end, replacing it with the same front end as the Jetta sedan.


I DID compare the profiles of both the 2019 Tiguan and the 2019 Jetta and the only things that were similar were the door handle line and the fuel filler door. Next I compared the 2019 Golf SportWagen to the Tiguan (& the Jetta), but the Tiguan interior area looks shorter lengthwise than the Golf's.
 

turbobrick240

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Nov 18, 2014
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maine
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2011 vw golf tdi(gone to greener pastures), 2001 ford f250 powerstroke
The previous (first?) gen. Tiggy looked to me like an overgrown Golf. The new one looks much different. Other than a few styling cues in the front end, I don't see much resemblance to the Jetta.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
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South of Boston
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'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
Golf Alltrack and Tiguan are on the same shared platform, but that platform is highly flexible so they may have started with the same base elements but the final size and shapes are entirely different. So technically you're both right.
 

tikal

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 18, 2001
Location
Southeast Texas
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2004 Passat Wagon (chainless + 5 MT + GDE tune)
Just to be clear, everyone can call any of these passenger vehicles from VW and elsewhere however their heart pleases.

My point is more do with how the design of a vehicle improves/worsens aerodynamics and therefore efficiency vs cargo/passenger space. Look up the 'Drag Coefficient'/weight of the 2015 Golf Sportswagen vs 2015 Tiguan. The differences add up to making a VW Tiguan one of the least optimized passenger vehicles considering primarily efficiency and cargo/passenger volume factors (given everything else important such as safety factors the same).

I can also understand that many people are buying passenger vehicles for their looks and perceived level of safety. In this case, for the average North American buyer, CUV/SUV is the better choice vs a wagon.
 

2.2TDI

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May 1, 2011
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TDI
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perceived level of safety. In this case, for the average North American buyer, CUV/SUV is the better choice vs a wagon.
This pretty much sums up 95% of car buyers in North America

"hey, why did you buy that SUV?"

"because it's safer"

"why is it safer"

"because I'm higher and see over everyone"

:rolleyes::(
 

IndigoBlueWagon

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South of Boston
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'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
I've always been struck by how poor the Tiguan's FE is. It would drive me crazy.
 

turbocharged798

Veteran Member
Joined
May 21, 2009
Location
Ellenville, NY
TDI
99.5 black ALH Jetta;09 Gasser Jetta
My 30MPG gasser 5 cyl Jetta is sitting rotting in the driveway because I can't deal with how much more it costs me in fuel compared to TDI. Some people commute with the 15-20MPG SUVs. :eek:
 

tikal

Veteran Member
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Apr 18, 2001
Location
Southeast Texas
TDI
2004 Passat Wagon (chainless + 5 MT + GDE tune)
Maybe all vehicles with a FE of 30 mpg or less should have a 100% fuel-guzzler tax assessed.
In my opinion you need something normalized to the passenger size, cargo size of the passenger vehicle.

So a VW Lupo TDI averages 65 MPG. Great! Now you have a Passat wagon TDI with around 40 cubic feet of cargo averages close to 40 MPG. That's super great!
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
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Aug 16, 2004
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South of Boston
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'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
Maybe all vehicles with a FE of 30 mpg or less should have a 100% fuel-guzzler tax assessed.
I wonder if it would have any effect on buying habits. A decade ago paying $2.50 - $3.00/gallon and getting 15 MPG would be considered crazy. Now people don't mind. Just like they don't mind paying $50K+ for a pickup truck. I think people would just work the guzzler tax into their 84 month loan and drive on.

I have two cars (BMW 335d and Mercedes 300D) that get FE in the low to mid-30s, and it bothers me to drive those instead of my 45-50 MPG TDIs. I don't think I could ever be comfortable driving a car or truck that got less than 20 MPG.
 

Rob Mayercik

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2001
Location
NJ, U.S.A.
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2002 Jetta GLS, Baltic Green/Beige
Maybe all vehicles with a FE of 30 mpg or less should have a 100% fuel-guzzler tax assessed.
You know, I get really sick of people tossing around statements like the one above - not everyone with a vehicle that gets that sort of MPG is driving it all the time. We're already paying more fuel taxes on them because we're buying more fuel to feed them, since the road taxes are assessed per gallon of fuel.

You planning on taxing the bejeezus out of that guy with the ultra-rare 69 Road Runner or the 57 Chevy, just because it doesn't meet 2019 MPG standards (or your arbitrary "30mpg" threshold above)?

Or how about my 1992 Jeep that only gets about 15-17 mpg? I drive it less than 1000 miles in a typical year, why are you hating on me for that?

And then there's the folks with the all-electric cars, who are aren't even paying road taxes because they don't buy gasoline/diesel for them - why are they getting to use the roads "for free"?
 

IndigoBlueWagon

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'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
And then there's the folks with the all-electric cars, who are aren't even paying road taxes because they don't buy gasoline/diesel for them - why are they getting to use the roads "for free"?
This is what bugs me. It remains to be seen if electrics can survive if the playing field gets leveled (no credits, rebates, or avoiding road use tax).
 

romad

Top Post Dawg
Joined
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Location
Palermo, State of Jefferson/Prescott, AZ
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2005 Jetta GLS Wagon "Cranberry"
You know, I get really sick of people tossing around statements like the one above - not everyone with a vehicle that gets that sort of MPG is driving it all the time. We're already paying more fuel taxes on them because we're buying more fuel to feed them, since the road taxes are assessed per gallon of fuel.
You planning on taxing the bejeezus out of that guy with the ultra-rare 69 Road Runner or the 57 Chevy, just because it doesn't meet 2019 MPG standards (or your arbitrary "30mpg" threshold above)?
Or how about my 1992 Jeep that only gets about 15-17 mpg? I drive it less than 1000 miles in a typical year, why are you hating on me for that?
And then there's the folks with the all-electric cars, who are aren't even paying road taxes because they don't buy gasoline/diesel for them - why are they getting to use the roads "for free"?
Don't be so asinine. You obviously don't understand that fuel guzzler taxes are only charged at the time of purchase of NEW vehicles. The current rate is a flat $7700.00 on vehicles that only get 12.5 mpg
 

JSWTDI09

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IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
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South of Boston
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'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
Didn't know that. Nice drivetrain. However, I already have a '15 GSW TDI that I don't drive. :)
 

tdidieselbobny

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Apr 4, 2005
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Stafford,NY (WNY)
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'03 Galactic Blue Jetta TDI, '15 Silk Blue Golf Sportwagen TDI
I saw a Green Falls Green Alltrack at a local dealer, it was a 6spd, 1.8... had the pano roof and black leatherette, but was $32k... that is a real nice color, they had a leftover GTI that color back in late spring, it was tempting, but didn't want to restart paying for a car.
 

Rob Mayercik

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2001
Location
NJ, U.S.A.
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Don't be so asinine. You obviously don't understand that fuel guzzler taxes are only charged at the time of purchase of NEW vehicles. The current rate is a flat $7700.00 on vehicles that only get 12.5 mpg
Are you always such a jerk when you don't have your morning coffee?

I understand that just fine, but there's plenty of folks who'd just as happily go after older vehicles too (ref: 'scrappage' laws in places like Japan).

You honestly think that with some of the enviro-loonies out there ("Green New Deal", anyone?) they'd be satisfied with just banging on new vehicles? They get that, it'll be "pre-owned" cars next, and then eventually everything.

All that aside, "100%" taxes are idiotic. Great way to financially wreck the guy with 4 kids who needs a larger vehicle to get them all to school.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
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'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
Two words: Carbon tax.

And the gov't could provide deductions/exemptions for low income folks.
 

romad

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 27, 2011
Location
Palermo, State of Jefferson/Prescott, AZ
TDI
2005 Jetta GLS Wagon "Cranberry"
Two words: Carbon tax.

And the gov't could provide deductions/exemptions for low income folks.
But would that be a one-time tax on NEW vehicles all the fuel guzzler tax? The FG tax is to increase fuel economy, and diesel is the most economical. I see the carbon tax as a plan to force EVs on everyone; perhaps the solution is hybrids: EV propulsion short range (say less than 40 miles with a 50mph/80kph max speed) and diesel for longer trips and at speeds above the 50/80 EV max.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

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'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
Carbon tax on energy consumed. EVs would pay it, too, although it obviously would be less than ICEs. Maybe EVs would pay a higher rate to support building out the charging infrastructure. ;)
 

tomo366

TDI Lifer, Member #131
Joined
Jun 30, 1997
Location
Kensington, Maryland USA
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2015 Jetta SEL TDI
You know, I get really sick of people tossing around statements like the one above - not everyone with a vehicle that gets that sort of MPG is driving it all the time. We're already paying more fuel taxes on them because we're buying more fuel to feed them, since the road taxes are assessed per gallon of fuel.
You planning on taxing the bejeezus out of that guy with the ultra-rare 69 Road Runner or the 57 Chevy, just because it doesn't meet 2019 MPG standards (or your arbitrary "30mpg" threshold above)?
Or how about my 1992 Jeep that only gets about 15-17 mpg? I drive it less than 1000 miles in a typical year, why are you hating on me for that?
And then there's the folks with the all-electric cars, who are aren't even paying road taxes because they don't buy gasoline/diesel for them - why are they getting to use the roads "for free"?
My 04 Grand Cherokee with the 4.0 Straight gets 10 MPG.....
 

IndigoBlueWagon

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Aug 16, 2004
Location
South of Boston
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'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
I see the carbon tax as a plan to force EVs on everyone.
Not sure it would work out that way. If EVs paid their share of carbon tax, even on 125 MPGe or whatever, but didn't get state rebates or federal tax credits, I think the playing field would be pretty level. If consumers had to pay full price for EVs without government subsidies, I think people would give ICEs a fair shake.
 
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