2015 Gulf Diesel: The clutch switch for starting is located where

[zanderalex1]

My left leg is a little short, it's a pain in the as- pushing the clutch to the floor, it the switch adjustable and if so where is it located.
TY

 

[ticaf]

...you can't adjust your seating position? And how do you even drive if starting is a such a problem?
I doubt the switch is adjustable.

 

[borninabus]

GOLF, my friend. you drive a GOLF.
google it

 

[Nuje]

GOLF, my friend. you drive a GOLF.

I've seen this in a few threads recently. I wonder if auto-correct is seeing "Golf" adjacent to "diesel" and changing it to "Gulf" (as in the gas station).

 

[oilhammer]

It is not adjustable. There may be some coding in some module that allows the starter to engage regardless. I'm not a fan of clutch switches myself, because all it does is force a bunch of pressure on a dry thrust bearing at start up. I also like to be able to reach in and start the car. I know not to do so while the transmission is in gear. Older cars never had this "feature".

 

[Lug_Nut]

I don't think the switch can be adjusted to accomplish your goal without causing pedal stroke limitations on the pedal release / cluch and flywheel engaged position. You might end up with a slipping clutch.
I had a similar peeve on all of my B4s, and added a spacer on top of the clutch pedal. Note that the B4 did NOT have a start interlock, I just prefered to have the clutch release/engage 'altitude' the same as the brake pedal engagement 'altitude'.
I didn't have the same perception of a 'too low' clutch on any of my A3s, any of my A4s, nor my present A7, all WITH start interlock. Go figure.....

 

[zanderalex1]

I don't think the switch can be adjusted to accomplish your goal without causing pedal stroke limitations on the pedal release / cluch and flywheel engaged position. You might end up with a slipping clutch.
I had a similar peeve on all of my B4s, and added a spacer on top of the clutch pedal. Note that the B4 did NOT have a start interlock, I just prefered to have the clutch release/engage 'altitude' the same as the brake pedal engagement 'altitude'.
I didn't have the same perception of a 'too low' clutch on any of my A3s, any of my A4s, nor my present A7, all WITH start interlock. Go figure.....

Is the switch located on the clutch pedal??, My issue is that the pedal must be completely to the floor( PITA) also is the switch goes you cant start the car.

 

[oilhammer]

Just a quick intarweb search, looks like the A7s' clutch "switch" is not a switch at all, but a Hall sensor like VAG has been using for the brake light switch for years. So it would almost HAVE to be a software change, although there were some experiments with magnets.

 

[zanderalex1]

Just a quick intarweb search, looks like the A7s' clutch "switch" is not a switch at all, but a Hall sensor like VAG has been using for the brake light switch for years. So it would almost HAVE to be a software change, although there were some experiments with magnets.

Crazy engineering. I will have to check this when the weather gets warmer. TY.

 

[Lug_Nut]

Just a quick intarweb search, looks like the A7s' clutch "switch" is not a switch at all, but a Hall sensor like VAG has been using for the brake light switch for years. So it would almost HAVE to be a software change, although there were some experiments with magnets.

Curious minds want to know: How is the manual transmission's selected gear set determined? If the cluch interlock is not a mechanical contact, but is a software switch based on a sensor, might a "neutral is selected" sensor state be piggy-backed to function in the same way?
in gear: clutch pedal has to be pressed
in neutral: clutch pedal press is not required

 

[oilhammer]

Math. The split second the clutch is "engaged" it compares road speed to crankshaft speed and determines what gear it is in. Does it quick, too.

I feel like just a few lines of code in whatever module (CE/BCM most likely) to tell it to ignore the starter request override, and it'll work the starter no matter what. But the clutch pedal position sensor still needs to work for all the other functions.

 

[zanderalex1]

Curious minds want to know: How is the manual transmission's selected gear set determined? If the cluch interlock is not a mechanical contact, but is a software switch based on a sensor, might a "neutral is selected" sensor state be piggy-backed to function in the same way?
in gear: clutch pedal has to be pressed
in neutral: clutch pedal press is not required

I must press the clutch even in neutral, sensor for this interesting. TY

 

[oilhammer]

I just looked on a Golf 7 I have here (a 2018 GTI), and the BCM does not support [long] coding. These cars are a quantum leap in complexity over previous generations, but the right person with the right knowledge and skills could certainly overcome this. I feel like it is probably no different than the car knowing it has a sunroof or not. Or rear fog lamps or not. Or a built-in phone, or a preheater, or whatever other different equipment they could possibly have.

 

[ZippyNH]

Pretty sure simplest fix is a thicker clutch pedal pad... possibly two or 3 stacked (with typical shoe making techniques is my guess) to make a good safe thicker pad that feels good.
Fast, cheap and reversible.

 

[zanderalex1]

I just looked on a Golf 7 I have here (a 2018 GTI), and the BCM does not support [long] coding. These cars are a quantum leap in complexity over previous generations, but the right person with the right knowledge and skills could certainly overcome this. I feel like it is probably no different than the car knowing it has a sunroof or not. Or rear fog lamps or not. Or a built-in phone, or a preheater, or whatever other different equipment they could possibly have.

From my experience on my 06 mercedes E320CDI diesel there are many ways to make adjustments with the scan tool and these 15 diesels it seems limited to what you can do and cannot do. TY.

 

[zanderalex1]

Pretty sure simplest fix is a thicker clutch pedal pad... possibly two or 3 stacked (with typical shoe making techniques is my guess) to make a good safe thicker pad that feels good.
Fast, cheap and reversible.

Your correct, about adding something to the pedal and knowing where the clutch sensor is located is also important, knowing how to jump it because if it fails I wont be able to start it. TY

 

[oilhammer]

Except it isn't a switch. It's a sensor. There's nothing to "jump".

Clutch Position Sensor (G476) - Google Search

 

[zanderalex1]

Sensors can be jumped and I wonder where it is.

 

[oilhammer]

You cannot jump a position sensor. If you'd like to experiment, there are more easily accessed sensors to mess with. Hall sensors work by motion. Literally. A magnet moving past a metal piece generating a bit of electricity.

Hall effect sensor - Wikipedia

 

[zanderalex1]

You cannot jump a position sensor. If you'd like to experiment, there are more easily accessed sensors to mess with. Hall sensors work by motion. Literally. A magnet moving past a metal piece generating a bit of electricity.

Hall effect sensor - Wikipedia

It really depends on what type of sensor it is and what I find crazy is that a simple sensor will disable you from starting the car and you have to get it towed to get it repaired. I will have to find a junkyard that has the car there to get a better understanding.
TY.

 

[ZippyNH]

Sensors can be jumped and I wonder where it is.

Things have changed in more modern cars ..
Switches wear out and fail.....the FEAR you and others have about them failing and having to bypass them is WHY they came into use.....
It WHY halls effect sensors are much more common. BMW/MINI uses them too.
Basically movement causes quick pulse of power (actually more of a change of resistance) the CHANGE or pulse is seen as the event.
No normally open or closed with a switch.
It's a totally different concept

 

[oilhammer]

OK, so.... all of these will cause the car not to start:

The key position sensor... or if it has a push button, the transponder itself. Which is above and beyond the actual immobiliser.

The crankshaft position sensor (which is a VERY common failure item on the CRUA engine).

Any one of these processors: The Engine, the Body, the Instruments

The entire SCR system can cause the car to inhibit starting, and probably 20+ sensors can cause the engine to go into limp mode, and it'll barely allow itself enough power to get its weight over to the shoulder.

If the intake throttle sticks shut, it won't start. If the exhaust throttle sticks shut, it won't start. If the electric lift pump in the tank, or the module that controls it, dies, it won't start. It has two EGR valves, three water pumps, two radiators, and about a quarter mile of coolant lines under the hood that could leak.

Seriously, if you are fretting over a fancy Hall sensor on your clutch to allow the car to function, you really should be looking at something built in the fifties.

I provided a link that has the wiring diagram for the clutch sensor. If you bothered to look, you'd see it isn't at all as simple as a single ON/OFF switch. Just like you cannot simply "jump" one of the wheel speed sensors and fool the ABS module. It's pretty complex.

Good news is, these Hall sensors are pretty reliable. They're not a high failure item.

 

[Nuje]

I just looked on a Golf 7 I have here (a 2018 GTI), and the BCM does not support [long] coding.

The 2018 is a "facelift" car with a newer BCM which indeed, does not include "long coding", but rather, all of the settings and configurations / options are done through adaptation channels.

Our 2015 cars' BCM, however, does support long coding.
e.g., mine is 00510B464041A2E949E44000091407001800000000000000000000000000

I don't have VCDS handy right now to plug it in and check for something like "ignore clutch switch" (doubtful such a thing exists due to potential liability concerns).

 

[Cuzoe]

This thread is chockablock with opportunity to get into the weeds but I'll resist... for now. The short of it has been covered. But it's worth noting that jumping or otherwise permanently "engaging" the clutch pedal will throw clutch position implausible faults and is therefore not a viable solution.

Clutchless ignition update: solved (maybe)

This is now my DIY thread for how I was able to defeat the clutch in ignition requirement for the Mk7. It has been working for me without issue since February 2020. Total cost ~$100. Time to install: 2 to 4 hours, possibly. Modifications to stock equipment: Drilling two small 4mm holes in the...

www.golfmk7.com

 

[RIP TDI]

But it's worth noting that jumping or otherwise permanently "engaging" the clutch pedal will throw clutch position implausible faults and is therefore not a viable solution.

One feature that I've always enjoyed is the ability, with cruise control on, to shift gears without losing cruise function after the gear change. Eliminating that feature by killing clutch pedal position sensing would be unacceptable for me since I use it surprisingly often, but then I have no objection to the safety objective of clutch-in starts.

 

[Lug_Nut]

You cannot jump a position sensor. ...... Hall sensors work by motion. Literally. A magnet moving past a metal piece generating a bit of electricity.

No movement = no 'bit* of electricity'?
Press the pedal down, hold it there, wait = no 'motion', yet the car can start.

Personally I prefer the ability to pause cruise control by clutch pedal. It's a courtesy to any following traffic to not have my brake lights falsely flash.
I'm still in the breaking old habit mode of the retraining process in this new-to-me car.

<edit> * "bit" meaning small quantity, and not meaning a simple on/off, or zero/one 'binary-digit'?
if binary, then it should be possible to replicate.<end>

 

[oilhammer]

Yup. Learns the pedal position pretty quick, doesn't it?

 

[Lug_Nut]

Learns, and then retains that value, even when the ECU isn't powered?
That sure meets my definition of a 'switch'.

 

[oilhammer]

Well you can continue to lose sleep over semantics. I won't. I provided the links to both define it, define how it works, and where it is.

You have to depend on it, not me.

 

[ZippyNH]

Kinda amazing that people are bent out of shape over something that's been semi common since I first learned about it..think it was MINI in 2005 and in that case already was going back to 2002 that I learned about halls effect switches.
Technology marches forward...sure a bit of "tribal knowledge" could bypass issues caused by imperfect parts, but engineers are always trying to find better solutions....
Sometimes change is more than than for the sake of change...in this case when was the last time you heard of a "clutch safety switch" in a "modern" car(with the halls effect switch)fail? Failures have basically gone away since a halls effect switch isn't duty cycle limited, doesn't stick and generally doesn't wear out like a physical switch which can also be more $$ if it's a real quality part...