2014 RAM EcoDiesel, so far very impressed

[Old Navy]

Yes, thanks for the explanation. I didn't know it was shelf life limited so much.

This will depend on length of said temp's ranges, my guess of a southern MO summer where we go from 80F daytime high to 100F June thru Aug. with overnight lows from 65F to 85F during these months. So long term storage of one or two 55 gallon drums is not going to go well when 15 gal will last me about a year.

DEF Shelf Life versus Temperature

[FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]Constant Ambient Storage Temperature [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]Shelf Life In Months [/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]≤50 °F (10°C) [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]36 [/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]<77 °F (25°C) [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]18 [/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]≤86 °F (30°C) [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]12 [/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]≤95 °F (35°C) [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]6 [/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]<104°F (40°C) [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]2 [/FONT][/FONT]

 

[kjclow]

My assumption, as a chemist, is that the shelf life is limited by crystallization of the urea. Once crystillized, the solution would probably have to heated above the melting point of the urea. Depending on the actual chemical make up of the urea with side chains, that temp ranges from about 70 to over 200 C (about 170 to 430 F).

 

[whitedog]

I have done experiments with DEF and have let it dry out and crystallize then added fresh DEF to it. It melts the crystals back to liquid. I don't know if it is still usable, but it certainly goes back to liquid from crystals.

But, since DEF is just water and Urea, the water evaporates away leaving the crystals, so you would have to add back the proper amount of water to bring it back to the proper ratio. There is a hydrometer that tests DEF, so maybe that would be how to tell if it's still good after sitting.

 

[nicklockard]

My assumption, as a chemist, is that the shelf life is limited by crystallization of the urea. Once crystillized, the solution would probably have to heated above the melting point of the urea. Depending on the actual chemical make up of the urea with side chains, that temp ranges from about 70 to over 200 C (about 170 to 430 F).

And I'd think it's outgassing of nitrogen by diffusion through the polymer walls and voids in the seals. Urea is metastable and will break down in heat.

It's similar to how bleach will degrade to sodium hydroxide. Over 60% of the store-bought bottles of bleach I've purchased in the last two years have aged out and lost all hypochlorite activity by the time I get them home and open them. My guess is they sat on a warehouse pallet or worse, outdoors, for months and months.

 

[n1das]

Even with my logging 1k miles/week, I go a few months between DEF fills. One filling of DEF in my X5 35d lasts about 15k miles. The X5 35d has a 2 tank system (active and passive tank) and holds a total of 5.95 US gallons.

Given the shelf life of DEF, I don't keep spare jugs of DEF around. I buy DEF when needed after I get the low DEF warning and countdown to no-start. BMWs start warning of low DEF at 999 miles and that gives me plenty of time to go buy some DEF and I do the DEF fill myself.

 

[Old Navy]

Even with my logging 1k miles/week, I go a few months between DEF fills. One filling of DEF in my X5 35d lasts about 15k miles. The X5 35d has a 2 tank system (active and passive tank) and holds a total of 5.95 US gallons.

Given the shelf life of DEF, I don't keep spare jugs of DEF around. I buy DEF when needed after I get the low DEF warning and countdown to no-start. BMWs start warning of low DEF at 999 miles and that gives me plenty of time to go buy some DEF and I do the DEF fill myself.

Mine holds 10.5 gallons and I run it down to about 1/4 tank then buy another jug or two depending on time of year. From Nov thru Mar I never fill above 3/4 tank due to cold weather and sudden temp drops to about zero from a 50F plus day. Man I hate that kind of weather.

Oh and my truck sits outside in car port alongside my other diesel, a Mahindra MAX 26 HT with 3 cylinder Mitsubishi Tier 1 diesel. When the oil get dirty it's time for a change because of no EGR or any such thing. I think 6 gallons last me about 10 hrs. at 3/4 throttle. The tractor starts almost as easy as my truck, but throws out a big cloud of black smoke and rattles like hell, well it rattles like crazy all the time.

I sure miss my 81 MB and smoking tailgators, can't do that with these new diesels.

 

[d2305]

At 45k my DEF system is broken. In shop waiting on parts. Thousands to fix. Not unique to Ecodiesels, but a pain.

 

[greengeeker]

Covered by warranty?

 

[d2305]

Chrysler said yes, but one never knows until it's done.

 

[john.jackson9213]

Chrysler said yes, but one never knows until it's done.

Doesn't the factory have to back all emissions systems parts for 100,000 miles per the EPA?

 

[kjclow]

VW doesn't cover it.

 

[Old Navy]

At 45k my DEF system is broken. In shop waiting on parts. Thousands to fix. Not unique to Ecodiesels, but a pain.

They(FCA) came out with TSB about it, they were warrantying the system even though they had had some people buying DEF that had been on the shelf too long and causing problem. I think the problem most had was computer caused.

 

[d2305]

The def tank is on back order. Stay tuned.

 

[Old Navy]

The def tank is on back order. Stay tuned.

Between wrecks and tanks that were full or near full in sub zero weather I'd be surprised if there wasn't a waiting list for one.
I never keep my DEF tank full summer or winter, maybe 3/4 at most. I winter when the forecast is for near or below 0 degrees (F) I park in the garage and move wife's little gasser to the car port by the tractor and log splitter. But that kind of temps are rare here and when they do happen its just a couple days.
You know I'd bet most of the ECOD owners are no different then most persons buying a new car or truck, never read the OM except to learn how to operate audio or EVIC.

I had neighbor for 20 years that he or his wife bought a new car every two or three years and neither one ever opened the OM and just depended on salesman or service people to take care of the car or show him how to use a feature he couldn't figure out.

 

[d2305]

You should come down here in the winter. We have lots of bases nearby and a hard freeze is rare.

 

[Old Navy]

You should come down here in the winter. We have lots of bases nearby and a hard freeze is rare.

I've often wondered what people do if they live in areas where winter overnight temps from Nov to Mar are often 0F or below that have cars and trucks with DEF tanks. I live where number of days below freezing (32F) is probably less then 50 days and days in the teens maybe 10 or so and often go several with just 4 or 5 days in the single digits for the winter.

 

[bubbagumpshrimp]

What kind of extended warranties (through the manufacturer...not BS aftermarket) are available with these? I would think about a lower trim truck (ex. Tradesman) if the price was right. Around me...they mostly stock Laramie and better, so I'd have to go a ways to check out a basic truck.

 

[Old Navy]

What kind of extended warranties (through the manufacturer...not BS aftermarket) are available with these? I would think about a lower trim truck (ex. Tradesman) if the price was right. Around me...they mostly stock Laramie and better, so I'd have to go a ways to check out a basic truck.

They come with 10 year and 100,000 mile warranty on drivetrain which includes injection pump, not sure if Chrysler actually has an actual in house extended warranty program.

I have 33,000 miles on mine no real issues other then operator error.

 

[bubbagumpshrimp]

They come with 10 year and 100,000 mile warranty on drivetrain which includes injection pump, not sure if Chrysler actually has an actual in house extended warranty program.

I have 33,000 miles on mine no real issues other then operator error.

I saw some people mention an extended bumper to bumper warranty over on the Ram 1500 diesel forum a while ago. I don't remember any of the specifics though.

The DEF heater is one issue that I've read about that seems to be fairly common (it doesn't sound like a "Ram" issue...but a typical DEF heater issue). Like VW...they won't warranty it under the 80k emissions warranty.

 

[Old Navy]

Not seen any locals with any DEF heater problem, but with it having to get down to 11F to start freezing you should be good in VA unless in northern part of mountains, mine was out in a rare -2F overnight low for two days in row and never had a problem. But nothing is perfect, and I bet you would pay far more in insurance fees waiting 3 to 5 years for failure. In the past I've paid for extended warranties and never had to use them, but was still out $10,000 or more I guess.

 

[bubbagumpshrimp]

I didn't know that their powertrain warranty was good for 100,000 miles. If that's the case, I doubt it's worth spending $1,500+ to extended the bumper to bumper warranty. The odds of that paying off are minimal.

 

[d2305]

It's the whole def tank that gets replaced.

 

[bubbagumpshrimp]

I managed to find one to drive this evening. I thought it was peppy enough for my needs. I'm running the numbers on the comparison of different trucks (and engines) at the moment. Whenever fuel prices go back up to $3.50+...I can see this paying off in short order (assuming you can get a deal on the truck where you aren't essentially paying the full ~$4k premium for the engine).

 

[Old Navy]

I managed to find one to drive this evening. I thought it was peppy enough for my needs. I'm running the numbers on the comparison of different trucks (and engines) at the moment. Whenever fuel prices go back up to $3.50+...I can see this paying off in short order (assuming you can get a deal on the truck where you aren't essentially paying the full ~$4k premium for the engine).

The actual premium is only at best $1500-$2000 because of extra's that FCA requires to be included such as block heater in all engines but without the cords attached to extra's required by law such as DEF system itself.

Where I live block heater is not needed, but every engine has one and it increases the price of engine, the electronics for water in fuel isn't necessary but we all get it. These are just a couple I can think of off hand, I'm sure there is more but at 4:30 am I'm not too clear headed.

 

[d2305]

One can get 25% off msrp without too much difficulty.

 

[bubbagumpshrimp]

Yup. The one I drove was stickered at $44,100. On their website...they have it marked down to $31,180. That's ~29% off.

 

[Old Navy]

My $47,000 list truck was $37,000 with employee discount and I got 0% interest.

 

[bubbagumpshrimp]

Ok...I went and drove another one today. The other day...it was a Tradesman ED with crew cab and 5.5' bed. Today...it was a Tradesman ED with a crew cab and a 6' 4" bed. I got to have a MUCH better and longer test drive today. As a result...I'm sold.

The transmission is buttery smooth between gears. It reminds me of the Allison transmission in my Dad's Duramax. Accelerating up an on-ramp to get on 95...it was peppy and accelerated smoothly up to highway speed.

Even for the Tradesman (basic trim)...the cabin is quiet at 70 MPH with the windows rolled up (will suit my commute just fine). With the windows down around town...you get to enjoy the diesel clickity clack sound.

I just have to decide what I want to do bed + cab size wise. I definitely want the 6' 4" bed. My last truck was a crew cab with a 5.5' bed and it always seemed just a bit too short.

I don't really care one way or the other on the cab (from a "need" standpoint). I can get by with the quad cab, but the crew cab would be nice on occasion. I guess I just have to decide whether or not I want to deal with the longer wheel base of the crew cab with the longer bed.

I can't wait for this to get wrapped up.

 

[d2305]

The truck has the same oil filter setup as TDIs. Will oil flow if the cap is put on without a filter. The reason I ask is that I got no oil pressure with an aftermarket oil filter.

 

[Old Navy]

The truck has the same oil filter setup as TDIs. Will oil flow if the cap is put on without a filter. The reason I ask is that I got no oil pressure with an aftermarket oil filter.

I not sure but have heard of some failures of aftermarket filters, not sure if it caused oil pressure dropped. Sounds like saving $5 or $10 may have cost you big time if CFA refuses to warranty if damaged from aftermarket filter. I use the CFA filters because they have several more pleats and peace of mind.