2014 Jetta TDI or 1.8 TSI?

[TDIx2]

Fuelly would have me believe that what you're seeing on your customers' computers is incorrect.
The following information is for Jetta TDIs...
2014: 114 TDIs, 38.3 MPG average
2013: 603 TDIs, 38.5 MPG average
2012: 699 TDIs, 38.6 MPG average
2011: 593 TDIs, 37.9 MPG average
2010: 673 TDIs, 38.6 MPG average
2009: 530 TDIs, 37.7 MPG average
Not until <2006 do the average numbers on Fuelly increase to 40 MPG or above.

So fuelly is certified in its accuracy? My trip computer says 45.3 mpg for its program two average. My mpg tracking via iphone app based on my fill ups and miles driven is 44.3 mpg. Either way still way higher then 34 mpg.

 

[VeeDubTDI]

I have no reason to doubt or question Fuelly's accuracy, especially when hundreds of people are reporting their data.

Your mileage might beat the averages, but that doesn't change what the averages are.

And for the people who are better than average, there are an equal number who are worse than average. That's how it works!

 

[tomo366]

I have no reason to believe the computer......Pencil and paper are the most accurate....
And the fact is this my old car averaged 33.8 and there are lots more out that average about the same

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

Common rail cars take a bigger FE hit in cold weather than earlier TDIs. And DSGs take a bigger hit in traffic than the EPA numbers indicate. It's pretty rare to see a rotary pump TDI (manual, of course) drop below 40 MPG in almost any type of driving. In nearly 300K I've only had a couple of tanks that got less than 40 MPG, and those were in the 38 range. It's not uncommon for someone with a JSW in city driving in winter to see FE in the low 30s. And a friend of mine has a '13 Passat with a DSG and does a lot of very short trips and his car idles a lot, and he was getting high 20s this past winter.

Long story short, the Fuelly numbers are real. And it's also true that drivers (me included) will do better because they're driving under more favorable conditions.

 

[sapgar]

I know I started this whole thread, but I'm seeing 38 ish to 41 in city and 48 ish on the highway. Mpg does tank with cold weather but I saw that with my gas engines too. Best highway was 53mpg driving up into the foothills west of Denver and back.

 

[crewcabrob]

I'm doing better than the EPA numbers for Hwy, but just barely. But it is for my combined driving, so all is good. Still, it would be nice to get closer to TDI numbers.

Rob

 

[Black_Smoke]

Cost to drive a TDI:
(distance driven in miles) * (price of diesel in $/gal) / (MPG of TDI) + (extra cost of TDI engine)

Cost to drive a TSI:
(distance driven in miles) * (Price of gas in $/gal) / (MPG of TSI)

Payback in miles:
(Payback in miles) = (MPG of TDI) * (MPG of TSI) * (Extra cost of TDI in $) / [ (MPG of TDI) * (Price of gas in $/gal) - (MPG of TSI) * (Price of diesel in $/gal) ]

In my personal situation in Alberta Canada (converted into Imperial units)
The TDI becomes worth it to buy if you drive more than 86006 miles over the life of your car. So.... kind of a no brainer unless diesel get ALOT more expensive than gas.

Assumed values:
MPG of TDI = 38
MPG of TSI = 29
Extra cost of TDI = $2300
Price of Diesel = $5.09/gal
Price of Gas = 4.66/gal

Need I mention the pleasure of driving with low end torque and resale....

 

[Black_Smoke]

Another way of looking at it.

Assuming that:

(Price of diesel) = X * (price of gas)

MPG of TDI = 38
MPG of TSI = 29
Extra cost of TDI = $2300
life of car = 125000 miles

X = (MPG of TSI) * [ 1 / (MPG of TDI) + (extra cost of TDI engine) / (life of car) ]

X = 1.2968

So diesel would have to be, on average, more than 129.68% of the price of gas for the life of the car (125000 miles) for the TDI to be uneconomical. If the car lasts longer, the price difference can be larger and remain economical.

 

[TDIx2]

I have no reason to doubt or question Fuelly's accuracy, especially when hundreds of people are reporting their data.

Your mileage might beat the averages, but that doesn't change what the averages are.

And for the people who are better than average, there are an equal number who are worse than average. That's how it works!

Fuelly is only as good as the people who enter the data on the sight. The poster who is comparing the TDI to the 1.8 is using 34mpg for the TDI wich even using the coveted fuelly data is at least 4mpg better. I have no doubt I'm getting above average mpg on of my car. My route is more TDI friendly and lends to better milage.

 

[03_01_TDI]

Both are assuming the different engine don't have any major issues. Just one major repair could destroy any fuel savings or initial purchase price savings.,

 

[MartyG]

Whether it be two years or eight years down the road isn't the TDI going to be worth more money? It may cost more upfront but it will be worth more in the end - the extra gas mileage along the way is just a bonus in my opinion.


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[crewcabrob]

Fuelly is only as good as the people who enter the data on the sight. The poster who is comparing the TDI to the 1.8 is using 34mpg for the TDI wich even using the coveted fuelly data is at least 4mpg better. I have no doubt I'm getting above average mpg on of my car. My route is more TDI friendly and lends to better milage.

I used the EPA combined numbers for both. I could use my numbers for the 1.8 and add 4mpg to the 34 (TDI) and it would be even further off.

Real world numbers are most likely always going to differ, but the published numbers are what I used.

Rob

 

[Black_Smoke]

Whatever your driving style is, you'll get around 10-15 MPG better in a TDI than in a gasser. If you drive hard, you'll be closer to the 10 end, if you drive nice, you'll be closer to the 15 end. (Conclusion drawn from fuelly mileage distributions)

 

[crewcabrob]

Could be, would love to see you guys get mileage like that.

Rob

 

[03_01_TDI]

Whether it be two years or eight years down the road isn't the TDI going to be worth more money? It may cost more upfront but it will be worth more in the end - the extra gas mileage along the way is just a bonus in my opinion.


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I doubt very few us informed tdi members would ever buy an 8 year old common rail tdi. I would trust a 18 year old ALH over an 8 year old common rail. Likewise I would trust any 8 year old gas engine over the modern tdi. That said I fully expect my tdi to be running great at 8 years of age.

The modern tdi with its complications could easily cost you $$$ in repairs.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

When the B5.5 Passat was eight years old with, say, 180K on it it could easily have needed a balance shaft replacement, camshaft, engine mounts, and a timing belt (of course). And the transmission would need a flush, perhaps a torque converter, or maybe it's about to give up. Balance shaft, cam, engine mounts, and timing belt would cost over 3K in parts. Probably half that in labor.

Makes replacing a HPFP or DPF seem not so bad.

 

[I800C0LLECT]

Something particular to being in Virginia...

One thing I like about my hybrid is that it devaluates quicker than my TDI. That means less car tax over time

I think my first year owning the Passat TDI and Jetta TDI I paid six or seven hundred for each in car taxes. I do plan on driving this car for about 10 to 12 years(hopefully).

 

[MartyG]

I doubt very few us informed tdi members would ever buy an 8 year old common rail tdi. I would trust a 18 year old ALH over an 8 year old common rail. Likewise I would trust any 8 year old gas engine over the modern tdi. That said I fully expect my tdi to be running great at 8 years of age.



The modern tdi with its complications could easily cost you $$$ in repairs.

This is my first TDI so I'm not sure what all that you said really means. What I do know is that I purchased a brand new TDI for only a couple thousand more than I could spend on one that was 2 or 3 years old. That was convincing enough for me to assume it would hold value pretty well.


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[tdi90hp]

Whatever your driving style is, you'll get around 10-15 MPG better in a TDI than in a gasser. If you drive hard, you'll be closer to the 10 end, if you drive nice, you'll be closer to the 15 end. (Conclusion drawn from fuelly mileage distributions)

dream on...my best tank ever on my stick 11 golf was 4.9 liters /100. I am ALREADY getting steady 5.5-5.6 liters per 100 in my new stick 6 speed Mazda 3 ,,,highway to highway... the average tank on the TDI was 5.1 to 5.2.....that is less than 10 percent. car is way cheaper than a TDI and maybe 10 percent more on highway which is where I spend most of my time....even if difference is 20% more in fuel at a fuel that is cheaper by the same amount in many USA localities it's a WASH....more math lessons required...

 

[TDIx2]

dream on...my best tank ever on my stick 11 golf was 4.9 liters /100. I am ALREADY getting steady 5.5-5.6 liters per 100 in my new stick 6 speed Mazda 3 ,,,highway to highway... the average tank on the TDI was 5.1 to 5.2.....that is less than 10 percent. car is way cheaper than a TDI and maybe 10 percent more on highway which is where I spend most of my time....even if difference is 20% more in fuel at a fuel that is cheaper by the same amount in many USA localities it's a WASH....more math lessons required...

I sat in a Mazda 3 and few others Mazdas at the dealer. I guess I'm a VW guy the Mazda line up seemed a lot lesser of a vehicles in general then the VW line up.

 

[Black_Smoke]

dream on...my best tank ever on my stick 11 golf was 4.9 liters /100. I am ALREADY getting steady 5.5-5.6 liters per 100 in my new stick 6 speed Mazda 3 ,,,highway to highway... the average tank on the TDI was 5.1 to 5.2.....that is less than 10 percent. car is way cheaper than a TDI and maybe 10 percent more on highway which is where I spend most of my time....even if difference is 20% more in fuel at a fuel that is cheaper by the same amount in many USA localities it's a WASH....more math lessons required...

The comparison obviously doesn't work if you're comparing different cars. I'm not saying that ANY TDI will get 10-15 MPG better than ANY gasser ever built.

The distribution of fuel mileages on fuelly relates to the driving conditions. In other words, people who get better than average mileage in a gasser will likely get similarly better than average mileage in a diesel. The distributions look something like a bell curve. I'm simply observing that if you move from a given position on the Gas Jetta bell curve to a similar position on the TDI Jetta bell curve, you'll gain about 10-15 mpg. No, it's not definitive, but it is an estimation based on information provided by a large group. I would hope that it is more helpful than unsupported guesses and stories relating to random vehicles that you've driven.

If you see a problem with the math that I've posted, I'm open to corrections. BTW, It looks like the comma and period buttons on your keyboard are sticking.

 

[seth1065]

I would buy the 8 year old CR tdi because it is safer than the older car hands down.

I doubt very few us informed tdi members would ever buy an 8 year old common rail tdi. I would trust a 18 year old ALH over an 8 year old common rail. Likewise I would trust any 8 year old gas engine over the modern tdi. That said I fully expect my tdi to be running great at 8 years of age.
The modern tdi with its complications could easily cost you $$$ in repairs.

 

[joeelmex]

I have 2 2012 Tdi and they been doing great. I average about 42 to 44 MPG (stick) my wife averages 38-40 (auto).

 

[03_01_TDI]

I would buy the 8 year old CR tdi because it is safer than the older car hands down.

Safer yes, reliable or cheaper to maintain?