2013 sportwagen no crank update towed to dealership

Talon

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 17, 2015
Location
Wisconsin
TDI
2003 Jetta Wagon ALH, 2013 tdi sportwagen
Started my car in the garage and it stalled. Reset the keep waited for the glow plugs light to go out. Car won't crank at all. Battery seems good, tried jump box and it still does not turn over. I can hear the starter engage but the engine does not turn over. New timing belt kit 5k miles ago new warranty dpf and EGR 500 miles ago. Car has 109k miles on it.any help greatly appreciated.
 

prsa01

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2000
Location
mpls,mn usa
TDI
14 jsw 6m, 96 B4v, miss my a4 :(
Before you do ANY more attempted cranking check for water/ice in your intercooler (relatively easy). You CAN ruin your engine if this is the problem.Read at least some of this thread:


This is covered by the dieselgate warranty if it is your problem. If your engine is hydrolocked and did get ruined VW has replaced engines for people for this.
 
Last edited:

Talon

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 17, 2015
Location
Wisconsin
TDI
2003 Jetta Wagon ALH, 2013 tdi sportwagen
I had it towed in to the dealership, we'll see what they say it is. 14k left on the warranty. Thanks for the help.
 

prsa01

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2000
Location
mpls,mn usa
TDI
14 jsw 6m, 96 B4v, miss my a4 :(
Please report back so we know if it was another frozen intercooler or something else.

Good luck!
 

Porch

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 29, 2019
Location
Asheville, NC
TDI
2011 jetta sportwagen tdi 6spd
Just had a crank/no start on my jsw, thought it was intercooler(even though VW already did the intercooler fix per the EEW it felt like the same symptoms again), towed it to shop, found out it was HPFP failure. I'm 20K out of warranty(162k total mileage) so the bill at an independent vw shop is $4200. Fingers crossed for you that it's either of these problems since both are very expensive repairs post-warranty. BTW, this bill is less than half what VW would charge for out-of-warranty repair of this issue.
 

Talon

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 17, 2015
Location
Wisconsin
TDI
2003 Jetta Wagon ALH, 2013 tdi sportwagen
Dealership called today, they have no idea how water got in the cylinders. Offered to remove the glow plugs & reinstall and replace the fuel filter for $460, added that the axel is leaking they'll replace for $685. I provided the tsb and reminded them they did the work to install the intercooler "gate". After a number of calls after they spoke to vw about the hydrolock issues he said the intercooler gate was installed to try to prevent hydrolock but the warranty does not cover the diagnosis of the issue or the cleanup after it happens. Ridiculous that you have to deal with the folks at dealerships saying they have no idea how something happens when vw published the hydrolock issue and the subsequent fix for it.
 

Talon

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 17, 2015
Location
Wisconsin
TDI
2003 Jetta Wagon ALH, 2013 tdi sportwagen
By the way they are saying it is not a warranty issue. Even though it looks like it per the tsb.
 

prsa01

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2000
Location
mpls,mn usa
TDI
14 jsw 6m, 96 B4v, miss my a4 :(
Some specific posts with people having tows, etc paid under dieselgate warranty. May be worth talking directly with these folks and/or their dealerships for pointers:

I had to tow mine twice, first time under the cpo warranty leading to cold weather kit installation, second time under dieselgate warranty, i had drained the water and unknowingly killed the battery (bug wouldn’t start just made a horrible noise), dealer charged the battery, checked the intercooler kit and off i went. Now as shown above, it has a winter front and i drain the hose every 5,000 miles.

Yes, the intercooler is one of the main parts of the warranty. Mine just got done in Denver.
I had to have it towed in, car wouldn't start.
I just had a hydro-lock scare(no-start in cold weather) in the Denver area, had car towed to a local shop, then to vw of Boulder, and they just got back to me with the good news that they sprayed some silicone somewhere and the car started right up. It apparently needs a new ecu at vw's expense, but whatever.

The relevant part to this thread is, the guy at vw told me that if the intercooler had hydro-locked the engine and caused subsequent catastrophic damage, that vw would've been on the hook for all the repairs under the extended emissions warranty, which I'm still under for a few thousand more miles.
Covered under TDI warranty

I had this issue with my 2011 Jetta a lot. (The worst one, it was 18ºF and it was completely locked up and I had to stand freezing, waiting for the tow truck.) Once VW determined the intercooler problem, they covered the repair even though I was at 78k. If they fight you about it, just make a case for it being part of engine intake and a part that only TDIs have. It's a factory defect after all.
And more of the same in the intercooler icing thread pinned at the top of the jsw forum.
 

Porch

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 29, 2019
Location
Asheville, NC
TDI
2011 jetta sportwagen tdi 6spd
By the way they are saying it is not a warranty issue. Even though it looks like it per the tsb.
It is 100% covered under the EEW, including diagnosis, cleanup, and a loaner car. just read your warranty insert, it can't be any more obvious. Read it to the dealer, the language is very plain. This is under the "parts covered under extended warranty" section:

- The air intake pipe and charge air cooler, charge air temperature sensor and air mass sensor (HFM);

They owe you the "cold weather version" of the intercooler, you pay nothing and get a car to drive in the meantime. end of story.
If possible, find a different dealership nearby that actually has some used TDIs for sale, as an indication that they're willing to deal with these cars. I found that many don't, and aren't.
 

Talon

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 17, 2015
Location
Wisconsin
TDI
2003 Jetta Wagon ALH, 2013 tdi sportwagen
Now waiting on a second cold weather version of the intercooler. The first was installed when the diesel gate reprogram was done at the same dealership. Verified that it was installed when the dpf and EGR were replaced 500 miles ago. Still saying I owe for diagnostic work and I might get my car back next week. Alternative dealer's that are not part of the same ownership are all 90+ miles away, where I had the EGR/dpf replaced when the car was running. Very frustrating for sure.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
Frustrating, pathetic, the joke of a warranty and the ignorance of the dealers is the same old story played out again and again and again.

I could have guessed from your original post that it was the intercooler hydrolock. And that was an issue BEFORE Dieselgate ever happened, there was a TSB about it, and the cold weather parts kit... I've installed a dozen of them. Now it is worse, because the only way to reduce NOx (without adding SCR) is to crank up fueling, and crank up the EGR... both of which are what causes the intercooler condensation problem in the first place. Derp...

They should have included the cold weather kit as part of the "fix", as at least it would have helped. It isn't a 100% surefire thing, though. The only way to do that is to tune/delete the nonsense out of it entirely.

Sometimes the starters burn up (on push button start cars). And of course, sometimes the rods bend.... and occasionally they find their way out the side of the block. :D
 

Talon

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 17, 2015
Location
Wisconsin
TDI
2003 Jetta Wagon ALH, 2013 tdi sportwagen
Car is ready, $500 bill and an explanation that at least they got the TSB paid for or it would be an additional $1,077 that they did get the warranty to cover. My attempts with customer service were futile kind of like talking to the Borg. In my mind if they pay for the parts to repair the issue the issue that took it into the dealership should be covered by the warranty. Oh well back to non VW gas. Oh and never from this ownership group here in Wisconsin.
 

prsa01

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2000
Location
mpls,mn usa
TDI
14 jsw 6m, 96 B4v, miss my a4 :(
These are selling for crazy money right now (even if you just sell it to carvana) so if you are frustrated enough to dump it you may end up pretty good financially.

As some have said, if either financially or for the principle it is worth it to you, it may be worth pursuing with vwoa. If you decide to keep it understand that the "fix" by itself does NOT guarantee this will not happen again. People have had the best results by covering the lower grill during winter months even with the "fix". Better yet, a tune mostly resolves the problem.
 

Talon

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 17, 2015
Location
Wisconsin
TDI
2003 Jetta Wagon ALH, 2013 tdi sportwagen
I received a call back from VW and they are working on my case. I'll update as more information becomes available.
 

Talon

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 17, 2015
Location
Wisconsin
TDI
2003 Jetta Wagon ALH, 2013 tdi sportwagen
No response from the vw customer service since last week I know Friday- Sunday were Christmas. Sent an inquiry email response yesterday morning, after leaving Monday for them to get caught up. With the workload and COVID stuff.
 

DivineChaos

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jul 27, 2019
Location
Minnesota
TDI
mk6 jetta sportwagen tdi
Frustrating, pathetic, the joke of a warranty and the ignorance of the dealers is the same old story played out again and again and again.

I could have guessed from your original post that it was the intercooler hydrolock. And that was an issue BEFORE Dieselgate ever happened, there was a TSB about it, and the cold weather parts kit... I've installed a dozen of them. Now it is worse, because the only way to reduce NOx (without adding SCR) is to crank up fueling, and crank up the EGR... both of which are what causes the intercooler condensation problem in the first place. Derp...

They should have included the cold weather kit as part of the "fix", as at least it would have helped. It isn't a 100% surefire thing, though. The only way to do that is to tune/delete the nonsense out of it entirely.

Sometimes the starters burn up (on push button start cars). And of course, sometimes the rods bend.... and occasionally they find their way out the side of the block. :D
How do the starters burn up on button start ones? I had to replace mine. (kessy jsw)
 

Talon

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 17, 2015
Location
Wisconsin
TDI
2003 Jetta Wagon ALH, 2013 tdi sportwagen
Ok the newest update. Last contact on Wednesday was my case has been given to a regional customer service person and I should know in 2 business days. On the second business day I receive a message from the regional customer service person saying they are waiting on an update and they'll get back to me next week. After reading more on this it seems like the new EGR (working better than the one they replaced) may have aided in the issue I be was still on the first tank of fuel post EGR and DPF replacement. More when I know more. Happy new year & God bless America.
 

austinroepke

Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2020
Location
Illinois, USA
TDI
2012 Sportwagen
Frustrating, pathetic, the joke of a warranty and the ignorance of the dealers is the same old story played out again and again and again.

I could have guessed from your original post that it was the intercooler hydrolock. And that was an issue BEFORE Dieselgate ever happened, there was a TSB about it, and the cold weather parts kit... I've installed a dozen of them. Now it is worse, because the only way to reduce NOx (without adding SCR) is to crank up fueling, and crank up the EGR... both of which are what causes the intercooler condensation problem in the first place. Derp...

They should have included the cold weather kit as part of the "fix", as at least it would have helped. It isn't a 100% surefire thing, though. The only way to do that is to tune/delete the nonsense out of it entirely.

Sometimes the starters burn up (on push button start cars). And of course, sometimes the rods bend.... and occasionally they find their way out the side of the block. :D
Would an EGR Tune help resolve this issue without physically deleting?

(Assuming a winter front and the Cold weather intercooler kit are installed as well).
 

Talon

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 17, 2015
Location
Wisconsin
TDI
2003 Jetta Wagon ALH, 2013 tdi sportwagen
Now the dealership manager is asking why I have not picked up my car. Vw customer care says they are waiting on an update from the dealership.
 

akjdouglass

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 3, 2013
Location
Jefferson City, Missouri
TDI
2012 Jetta w/premium (sold to VW); 2014 Jetta Value Edition; 2015 Jetta SEL
Doubtful anything the dealer or VWOA does will do much to prevent intercooler icing in the future. Blocking the lower grille helped somewhat for me, but it still happened often each winter.

Unless you have zero skills wrenching there's no reason to tow to a dealer, regardless of warranty status. All you have to do is remove the glow plugs and crank the engine over a few times to blow the water out of the cylinders. Beyond that, the only real cure is a DPF/EGR delete.

Issue is discussed ad nauseum in this thread: https://forums.tdiclub.com/index.ph...is-your-intercooler-frozen-check-here.302863/.
 

DivineChaos

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jul 27, 2019
Location
Minnesota
TDI
mk6 jetta sportwagen tdi
I stage 2 tuned mine right away, with EGR off and installed block off plates. So glad I never had this issue.
 

Talon

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 17, 2015
Location
Wisconsin
TDI
2003 Jetta Wagon ALH, 2013 tdi sportwagen
Now the dealership says vw customer care is unavailable and vw customer care says the dealership is not available. Guess it'll have to sit there a while. I had zero issues until the DPF and EGR were replaced under warranty. It's still on the first tank of fuel. A serious canine and equestrian event. Happy new year everyone.
 

Talon

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 17, 2015
Location
Wisconsin
TDI
2003 Jetta Wagon ALH, 2013 tdi sportwagen
Vw customer care called and they are not covering the repairs to my car. The dealership and vw customer care do not know how I got water in my engine but did install the cold weather charge air cooler kit. No more vw for me, principal thing.
 

MrCypherr

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2012
Location
Ontario
TDI
Mk6 Wagon
Wait, did they just install the kit now after the water got in? Because if you didnt have the kit before, they BOTH know how water got in your engine. Thats literally the whole point of the charge air cooler fix kit. They are trying to pull a fast one on you lol
 

Talon

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 17, 2015
Location
Wisconsin
TDI
2003 Jetta Wagon ALH, 2013 tdi sportwagen
Yep. VW customer care said they would not recommend against the dealership. While at the dealership to pick up my car I found out it was a parts manager that was covering the service manager job. The fellow that checked me out read the paperwork and his copy had 3 pages mine had one. The young man checking me out reprinted the second and third page for me. "C ** Perform TSB 21-18-02 2025464 to prevent frozen charge air tube/ no start condition cause: updating vehicle to prevent ice/water build up in intake system"
"111505 21431983, 50380950, 63291950, 66051900, 21433199, 01500000, 01210002, 01320000, 3.40 as parts. 2025464 to prevent ice/water build up as experienced by guest - had vehicle towed in for the same concern during this visit. Called warranty help line and was advised this would be a covered repair under the TDI warranty."
So that's where I am now.
 

Talon

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 17, 2015
Location
Wisconsin
TDI
2003 Jetta Wagon ALH, 2013 tdi sportwagen
Now that I have my car back. Is there a cure for the icing/ water build up? I understand that covering the grill is kind of a band aid that still allows the ice and water issue to happen. Thanks for the help.
 
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