2013 Passat stumble I've researched for weeks...

bimmerjoe

Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2016
Location
ontario
TDI
2009 jetta highline
Hey everyone,

I have a 2013 Passat TDI with 75,000km

Problem started only on a cold start (summer temperatures).
It idles perfect, reves perfect, when I put it in drive and accelerate to more then 20kmh it will stutter and knock and hesitate. After about 1 minute it's all gone and drives perfect....
Lately the loud knock goes away mostly but it is still lightly there but permanently. It's been progressively getting worse for the last 10,000km.
It's to the point I'm worried about driving the car.

Brought it a VW mechanic and he had no idea (lol)
Brought it to vw and they said flywheel ( I don't think it's that because it shifts perfectly fine)

I've been researching all kinds for weeks and what ive read has been possible: injectors, camshaft, lifters, and maaaaaaaybe dsg.

Racking my brain also trying to research a TDI specialist in Toronto with no luck

Any insight from the membership?
 

AverageAndy

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 14, 2020
Location
Phoenix, AZ
TDI
2013 Passat
My personal experience sounds similar, with a stutter, clacking and hesitating when starting from cold (after sitting overnight). Issue is always when accelerating between 2000-2500 RPM and usually in 3rd or 4th gear. Issue is non-existent when warmed up. Mine got worse until it started to throw an intermittent MIL (P1004). I tried a liquid moly injector cleaning, but problem persistent. Replacement of the appropriate injector (cylinder #1) fixed the problem. Car runs soooo much quieter from cold and no shake/hesitation.
 
Last edited:

bimmerjoe

Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2016
Location
ontario
TDI
2009 jetta highline
My personal experience sounds similar, with a stutter, clacking and hesitating when starting from cold (after sitting overnight). Issue is always when accelerating between 2000-2500 RPM and usually in 3rd or 4th gear. Issue is non-existent when warmed up. Mine got worse until it started to throw in intermittent MIL (P1004). I tried a liquid moly injector cleaning, but problem persistent. Replacement of the appropriate injector (cylinder #1) fixed the problem. Car runs soooo much quieter from cold and no shake/hesitation.
What you describe is exactly what's happening!
Car just threw a code finally so it's going to vw tomorrow and hopefully they will resolve the issue.!
 

d2freeman

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 8, 2013
Location
NC
TDI
2013 Passat SE
Mine did the same thing after the emissions fix and It would also throw a code for torque difference on Injector #4 every week or so.
I re-entered the calibration codes for the injectors as suggested by Oil Hammer and it has been perfect ever since.
 

rmilchman

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 9, 2014
Location
Robbinsville, NJ
TDI
2014 Passat TDI SEL
I ad the same issue with my '14. There were no codes, the local dealer told me there was nothing I could do. After reading lots of posts about the same problem I called VW corporate told them the issue and the fix. Got a call back from my local dealer to bring the car in and they will be replacing all injectors as part of the extended warranty.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
Reset the injector calibration, it sets the ECU back into "learn" mode. This is a somewhat common issue with the CKRA, which is unique in its specific diesel injectors in this market.

Replacement of injectors is extreme, why not just at least try to reset them and see? Doesn't cost anything, it is easy, and you do not even get dirty. :)
 

AverageAndy

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 14, 2020
Location
Phoenix, AZ
TDI
2013 Passat
I agree @oilhammer that replacement is extreme, but as it was still under warranty and I didn't have the software to reset an injector, I let them have at it. Plus, I felt I needed to establish rapport and probably prove a point to my dealer since I told them it was the injector all along. Hopefully this will help someone else who comes in for the same issue(y)
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
This is where the "well, it is under warranty, so..." becomes an issue. Because it isn't as simple as swapping a light bulb when we are talking about replacing injectors in one of these. You open yourself up to all kinds of liability, and while you may think it isn't your problem and the warranty will "take car of everything", that is of little solace if you are broken down on the side of the road or your car is constantly ping-ponging back and forth because the attempt to fix something, be it successful or not, leads to five other things now broken or leaking or screwed up because the tech was forced to throw parts at it for 50% pay and he or she rushed through it and/or left something out because it was going to be another day to get something else needed in to do the job correctly. I've been on that side of the fence. It sucks.

Now, if I were the tech, I would have probably tried the reset too. But, these guys unfortunately are being either told to do things a certain way, or just forbidden to do things a certain way. Even if it is faster, less expensive, and easier. This is just like when a customer had an 11k mile ALH with a fuel temp sensor DTC. It was still under warranty, and they said they had to replace the whole injection pump. The. Whole. Pump. For a $22 part that is right under the top cover. A part that THEY CAN GET. So guess what happens? Tech gets shafted on the time to replace the pump, shaft SO BAD that there is no way you can do the job correctly, because to do it correctly means resetting the whole belt drive. So you have to M&P the job, untension and retension the tensioner that the VAG training tech himself told us never to do, and then a week something catastrophic happens and the engine needs to be replaced. All for a $22 sensor and 10 minutes worth of work.

Car was never right after that. Because now the dealer is eating the labor on the engine R&R. If the tech short cutted the injection pump job, what kind of work do you think he's going to do on the whole engine?

Can of worms is the best way to describe this. And this is the stuff that all too often leaves the wonderful Trail of Fail behind that we see later on. :(
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
Adaptation channels 071-074. What you have to do is change the values to something jibberish, then re-input the original (same) values as before.

Note: there has been some rumor-milling about some of these Adaptation channels changing/behaving/looking slightly different post-Dieselgate fix. I have no confirmed data on this, however, and it may not apply specifically to the CKRA's IMA/ISA calibration.
 

bobthefarmer

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 11, 2013
Location
Indianapolis
TDI
2006.5 Jetta Mk 5 192K miles; 2012 Car of the Year, Passat Tdi SE+Nav in blue nightgown, shod in 18 inch heels
Adaptation channels 071-074. What you have to do is change the values to something jibberish, then re-input the original (same) values as before.

Note: there has been some rumor-milling about some of these Adaptation channels changing/behaving/looking slightly different post-Dieselgate fix. I have no confirmed data on this, however, and it may not apply specifically to the CKRA's IMA/ISA calibration.
Can you give me a procedure to perform this using VCDS? I have never done this and Would APPRECIATE giving it a try. I have been given a run around on this issue and it bothers me as I had had it since the fix.
My CKRA has 120K Miles now and warranty expires in 3K.
 

jasonTDI

TDI GURU Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Apr 26, 2001
Location
Oregon, WI
TDI
20' RAM 3500 CCLB dually HO/Aisan. 2019 Cherokee 2.0T
Reset procedure works great!
 

cudabnu

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 10, 2004
Location
Moorpark, CA
TDI
2013 Passat TDI, just sold my 2007 Touareg V10 TDI
I tried resetting mine (2013) no luck, have the same issue starting from cold, under load a bit of a louder knock and a shudder (DSG), once it warms up, drives fine. Also getting a DPF regen code, I'll have to see if it is related or a separate issue.
I'll try some new injectors (getting delivered this afternoon) install them tonight and see what it does in the morning!
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
One thing the CKRA NMS Passat seems to have proven to me over the last couple years: it is a lousy car to depend on every day, and you almost have to have a car in reserve if you need reliable transportation. Sadly, the TSIs are no better. I just sent yet another one away that blew its chain at only 97k miles.
 

Brad95

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 9, 2012
Location
Arizona
TDI
2013 Passat TDI SE Manual since 09/28/12-04/05/18, 2015 Passat TDI SE Manual Since 03/29/2018
One thing the CKRA NMS Passat seems to have proven to me over the last couple years: it is a lousy car to depend on every day, and you almost have to have a car in reserve if you need reliable transportation. Sadly, the TSIs are no better. I just sent yet another one away that blew its chain at only 97k miles.
i thought CKRA NMS Passat has Timing belt !
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
Yes, and the TSI NMS does not, sadly. The EA888 family of engines (there are a bunch of them, 2.0L and 1.8L displacement) are well known lawsuit-inducing chain-chucking hunks of crap. In the NMS, that means late 2014 onward, as the EA888 based 170hp 1.8L engines (CPKA and CPRA) replaced the late 170hp 2.5L 5 cyl engines (CBTA and CBUA).

Meanwhile, my own 170hp 1.8L AWM engine just passed 250k miles.. all original engine proper bits, and this after pushing two tons of AWD Passat around through a ZF slushbox.... which is also original. And if I had to place a bet, as to which from this point onward, which would last longer, my 250k mile 18 year old AWM or a 0 mile brand new (well, as new as possible, as they stopped making them) Passat with whatever version EA888 engine it would be cursed with, I'd pick my AWM. The new ones are that bad. We were hovering around one a month, but this year so far it has been at two a month, and we've already had one for March that just began....
 

cudabnu

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 10, 2004
Location
Moorpark, CA
TDI
2013 Passat TDI, just sold my 2007 Touareg V10 TDI
New injectors fixed the problems. so... what do used injectors go for as cores?
 
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