2013 Jetta TDI 2.0 will not start please help!

[Tosh.OTDI2024]

My 2013 Jetta died while driving. The serpentine belt had shredded some. Towed home, placed in partial service position had alternator bench tested and they said it was “good”. Replaced belt and battery, and reinstalled the alternator. Once I turn the key over absolutely nothing happens. It immediately drains the battery and have no power. The car will not start on a jump either. We cannot figure out the issue. If anyone could point me in a direction, or recommend any possible other issues to check I would greatly appreciate it.

 

[oilhammer]

You need an engine.

The accessory belt got pulled under the timing cover, and tooefed the the timing belt. The valves are trying to get romantic with the pistons.

You *might* be able to pull the covers off and replace the timing belt, but the valve damage is likely already done, and if it does start afterwards it will run terrible and/or blow something apart after a few minutes.

You could pull the head, but valve jobs are VERY expensive on these. So expensive, most would just replace the head. And that assumes the lower end is OK. Once you find out how much a head costs, and how labor intensive it is to install it, you'll start looking for a good used engine. They're out there.

 

[Tosh.OTDI2024]

Why would you say that? The car has been properly maintained and serviced and gave no indications before that any issues with the engine was present.

 

[oilhammer]

Why would you say that?

Because I've seen it happen. More than once. Or twice. Or a dozen times.

This is why they make these:

Metal Timing Belt Cover Lower CJAA CBEA TDI TDITBCOVER | IDParts.com - Diesel Parts

Chances are the accessory belt had some reason it failed, but it didn't get noticed. It sucks, it happens. All you can do is tear into the timing cover and confirm.

 

[Tosh.OTDI2024]

I took the cover off and inspected the timing belt, I don’t see any damage to the cover itself, metal shavings, chunks of serptentine belt, or issues that would indicate that, but other than that I only know how to visually inspect it, unless their is another way to inspect and check to see if that’s the issue.

 

[oilhammer]

Try turning the engine by hand.... 19mm 12-point on the crank bolt, turn it clockwise, see if it moves. Also check the position of the indicator in the tensioner.... it should be fairly close... the little tab should line up with the notch behind it.

 

[Tosh.OTDI2024]

Thank you. I’ve got to get a 19mm 12pt but I’ll give it a go and see if I can get it to turn. Honestly it never occurred to me that it could be a seized engine. Everything looks good from inside the cover but it’s still possible. I may just tow it to the mechanic and pay the fee to have them look at it. I’m a 33 yo female that can do plenty of basic and simple repairs but definitely not engine repair, and if it’s not a seized engine then I’m back at square one figuring out what the culprit could be.

 

[oilhammer]

Is the car a stick?

 

[Tosh.OTDI2024]

It is not. 2.0 CJAA automatic

 

[oilhammer]

Ah, ok.... if it were a stick you can always push it in gear to roll the engine. Automatics, not.

 

[Bob S.]

Oilhammer is providing you with experienced and proper guidance. IMO, based upon your description of the event and symptoms, Oilhammer provided the most likely sequence of events and damage.

 

[Tosh.OTDI2024]

Took me a little while, but got the parts I needed to inspect and look into the timing belt in more detail, and you were most certainly correct. Wish I would have know ahead of time to put the metal guard on instead. I thought I really kept up with the up keep and the additional needs a TDI needs. Apparently not.. been on the phone all day today. I live in Eastern TN and I have been rough quoted $6500-$9300 for a used engine swap from 5-6 shops. I’ve researched and everyone else mentions much lower cost and I’m just not understanding why I’m being quoted such a large amount, because an engine swap is wayy out of my ballpark.

 

[dux11sw]

This is terrifying. What's involved in installing the metal cover? I'm inclined to put one on my son's car now.

 

[AverageAndy]

This is terrifying. What's involved in installing the metal cover? I'm inclined to put one on my son's car now.

Remove wheel and inner wheel well, remove serpentine belt, remove harmonic balancer (vibration damper) and lower timing cover. Install metal cover, replace removed parts (except lower timing cover, I think).

Common Rail TDI Lower Timing Belt Cover – Whitbread Performance Innovations, LLC

 

[dux11sw]

Not too bad. A little less involved than an engine replacement. I'll put one on so that I will only have to wait for the injector pump to fail.

 

[TurboABA]

I have been rough quoted $6500-$9300 for a used engine swap from 5-6 shops. I’ve researched and everyone else mentions much lower cost and I’m just not understanding why I’m being quoted such a large amount

The software the industry uses will tell you it's about 9.5h to Remove & Install the engine.
Add to that more time and cost to transfer over accessories, replace things that are old, etc, cost of used engine, and you'll quickly understand why.

 

[oilhammer]

Not even close.

Book time to R&R the CJAA on a 2013 sedan is 16hr. Wagon is a bit more. Add in all the incidentals, like installing some new bits, it'll be more.

How many miles are on the car?

 

[Tosh.OTDI2024]

200,751

 

[TurboABA]

 

[Tosh.OTDI2024]

I’m sorry. What am I looking at here? I mean obviously the processing system for the estimate to repair my car, but I saw the 9.4 listed at the bottom. You saying that should be the more appropriate estimate on labor costs? Let’s see last quote I received was about 45 minutes ago. $6800. $3500 for the used motor with 117k on it and a 6 month warranty. So the other $3300 was for labor and fluids. Both seem on the high end to me. Maybe I’m wrong. But I’ve need others in the group over the years find and pay to have replacement put in much cheaper.

 

[oilhammer]

So I assume the timing belt (and thus, the accessory belt) has been replaced... it could have just been a failed belt, or the alternator pulley has been stuck for a while, or something else. Really tough to say, and water under the bridge at this point.

To my Canadian friend, R&R the eng/trans assembly is not the same as replacing the engine. Those of us that actually service cars for a living have a better understanding of published flat rate times. And most of us use Alldata or Mitchell, we use Alldata here.

 

[TurboABA]

I’m sorry. What am I looking at here? I mean obviously the processing system for the estimate to repair my car, but I saw the 9.4 listed at the bottom. You saying that should be the more appropriate estimate on labor costs? Let’s see last quote I received was about 45 minutes ago. $6800. $3500 for the used motor with 117k on it and a 6 month warranty. So the other $3300 was for labor and fluids. Both seem on the high end to me. Maybe I’m wrong. But I’ve need others in the group over the years find and pay to have replacement put in much cheaper.

You are looking at proof of what I had posted, which someone corrected [while changing the terms being used (read: R&I vs R&R), while conveniently leaving out those details in order to undermine\discredit my contribution to the untrained user].... so just ignore that visual.

You can see what a used engine goes for on the current market where you're shopping. $3-3.5k seems "typical", but there are a lot of factors, so results will vary.

 

[Rx7145]

I’m so sorry this happened to you. This is a very strange quirk of this TDI engine, many reports of the timing belt getting destroyed by the serpentine belt. I’m in the R&D phase for making one of these covers for the BRM engine so out of curiosity how many miles were on the serpentine belt? And have you checked the alternator clutch? as many times the alternator clutch fails and that causes the belt to fail, cascading failures if you will.

 

[GBaugh]

I'm not finding a metal timing cover available for CKRA/B models. Checked FCPEuro and IDParts. Has anyone done this upgrade on a CKRA?
That's the kind of flawed engineering that bugs me. A person takes care of their vehicle and still stuff like that happens. That's not the way the cookie is supposed to crumble. Engineering replaced metal with plastic all to save a few bucks

 

[TurboABA]

Bean counters... Not engineers

 

[Rx7145]

I’ve heard some people say to replace the belt every 40,000 miles. I’m trying to collect anecdotal evidence to see if that is correct.

 

[oilhammer]

I'm always of the mindset that something would have caused this, and it didn't get remedied in time. I always visually check the accessory belt at every service for any signs of poor tracking, splitting, fraying, etc. I also always check the alternator pulley clutch. And of course listen for any noises. I'm probably more scrutinizing as the timing belt interval is coming up.

The CR TDIs, having a longer interval, might require a bit more scrutiny for things like this, especially after the first one, but before the second one, if that makes any sense. And it probably is a good practice to just replace the tensioner, the idler, and the alternator pulley as a precaution and the second interval, assuming they've made it that long. I've got a 2013 CJAA here that made it to 160k mile, and its alternator pulley clutch is locked. The only sign is a slight rattle/wobble noise at idle, worse when cold (when the alternator load is the greatest). It was here for its 160k PM, and I caught it. It wasn't bad at 150k. And the belt was replaced at 120k when I did the timing belt.

This is why I cringe when DIYrs that maybe shouldn't, or worse, quickie lubers, are the ones tasked with maintaining the car. Because stuff like this gets missed. I see stuff every day on cars that come in here that need to be addressed and haven't, simply because the owner didn't know.

 

[p.e.fletcher]

I'm not finding a metal timing cover available for CKRA/B models. Checked FCPEuro and IDParts. Has anyone done this upgrade on a CKRA?
That's the kind of flawed engineering that bugs me. A person takes care of their vehicle and still stuff like that happens. That's not the way the cookie is supposed to crumble. Engineering replaced metal with plastic all to save a few bucks

I’ve never seen one available for CKRA because it has a unique shape to its lower cover among other things.

 

[Rx7145]

I’ve never seen one available for CKRA because it has a unique shape to its lower cover among other things.

Something to keep in mind, after I see how this BRM cover goes.

 

[GBaugh]

turboABA, you're absolutely right. It was probably engineers that recommended a metal cover design, and then the bean counters intervened.