2012 passat tdi

newguy12

Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2012
Location
Pennsylvania
TDI
2002 jetta
Can anyone assure me the engine in the new passat won't have injection pump issues? What were the exact mechanical changes they made?
How do I know for certain?
Does anyone have diagrams showing exactly what was happening on the 09's and 2010's
Thanks!
 

gergg

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 6, 2011
Location
Georgia
TDI
2012 Passat TDI 6M
Can anyone assure me the engine in the new passat won't have injection pump issues? What were the exact mechanical changes they made?
How do I know for certain?
I wish that were possible....only way to know for certain is to buy one, drive the heck out of it, and do some praying while you are at it :D Seriously, noone knows at this point, I haven't heard about any failures to date which is good but, it is too early to really know how things are going to work out.
 
Joined
Feb 28, 2012
Location
usa
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2012 passat tdi 2004 golf tdi
How long has this engine been available in Europe? If its been around a while it would be a good marker.
 

tdiatlast

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Jan 21, 2009
Location
Fort Worth, Texas
TDI
2009 Sportwagen (boughtback); 2014 Passat TDI SEL (boughtback)
Angrynewyorker and OP: Welcome to the club. If you're serious about your question, there's plenty of reading to do here, regarding "High Pressure Fuel Pump". There are dozens of threads discussing the "issue" from every possible perspective...design flaw, incompatability with US diesel, etc. etc.

Comparing a European version with the US version engine isn't fair, as fuel quality in the US has been poorer than in the EU (although many here hope it's improving) Many feel it's the fuel quality causing the HPFP failures, hence the many threads re: fuel additives to increase lubricity (yet more reading!!)

The failures are requiring complete fuel system rebuilds...$7-10k...that's the bad news. The good news is that the failure RATE is so small that there's little leverage against VWoA to force a retrofit.

aja888's self-portrait above is very appropriate for many here. Others just drive more, worry less.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
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Aug 16, 2004
Location
South of Boston
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'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
It isn't because of the difference in fuel quality between the US and Europe. Most people feel that HPFP failure here is caused at least in part by our poor fuel.

AFAIK Passats are no more or less prone to failure than other common rail VWs. Whether or not the failure level is acceptable to you is a matter of how you interpret that data that's out there.
 

Niner

duplicate account, banned
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Jun 3, 2011
OP, hold on to your 2002, no guarantees on the new passat and HPFP until some historical data accumulates, and that will take a few years.
 

gergg

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 6, 2011
Location
Georgia
TDI
2012 Passat TDI 6M
Haven't heard of any HPFP failures for the 2012 Passat yet but, there have been some failures on 2011 & 2012 Jetta's.
 

Niner

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Jun 3, 2011
What about 2011 model jetta's? Any issues?

Do a search in the A5 and A 6 chassis section above the B7 section, and look for a post by Dwiesel for failures by state, you can see by state, also the year of the vehicle that failed. this is just failures reported to dwiesel, it is by no means all inclusive, someone has to want to be added to dwiesels list for him to include you in it.
 

newguy12

Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2012
Location
Pennsylvania
TDI
2002 jetta
I read that the 2012 passat tdi fuel system was different than the 2012 jetta's... This is so frustrating not being able to know for sure what you're buying! I understand every model has lemons, but I am looking to drive this thing for 200,000 + miles, and I don't have a warm fuzzy right now. I searched everywhere, and even tried to call VW to find out for sure the issue is fixed, but everyone is evasive..... what a dispointment .....
 

tdiatlast

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 21, 2009
Location
Fort Worth, Texas
TDI
2009 Sportwagen (boughtback); 2014 Passat TDI SEL (boughtback)
Passat TDI: Solenoid injectors vs. Piezo in the Jetta. AdBlue exhaust treatment in the Passat TDI (unrelated to HPFP). Both cars still have diesel particulate filters. Fuel routing through the filter is different.

AFAIK, the HPFP fuel pump is identical in design to the 09>>>, however, VW has "updated" the original pump with several subsequent versions...still, the same basic design, though.
There was discussion elsewhere on this site (more searching for you, I'm afriad!) that the updated versions possibly have different coatings, or even changes to the metallurgy used. I read a bunch here, and I never read any conclusive information what the changes are, only speculation.
You are correct that the failure potential still exists. The disaster isn't the failure of the HPFP itself (failures will always occur, over time), but rather that the failure damages the entire fuel system. There still isn't any sort of containment that has been designed/engineered, although member Eddif has a thread that is aggressively discussing post HPFP filtration.
I will state, though, that the frequency of HPFP failures, at least reported here, has dropped dramatically, even as accumulated miles have increased. You can read into that whatever you want.

You're not alone with these questions. Plenty to read here. Your potential purchase will depend on your own interpretation of these posts. I'm afraid, though, you will NOT find definitive answers to your questions.
 
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Rico567

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Jun 13, 2003
Location
Central IL
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2013 Passat TDI SEL Premium (Turned in 7/7/18)
AFAIK, there is some failure statistic for every common mechanical component in any car. We buy an extremely complex machine (I read somewhere that the average car has over 12K parts) and live with those combined statistics every day. Every time I turn the wheel, there is some marginal statistic that a tie rod will fracture and send me head-on into the path of a semi. As for stats on the HPFP in question, there is obviously only going to be one source of accurate information about its history = VW.
 

Niner

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Jun 3, 2011
The passat HPFP ends in P/N 155E, the 2009 jetta's, jsw's, and Golf's have a HPFP ending in 155A.

Pressure at the pump can be up to 2000 bar on the piezo injection version, the solenoid versions were running at 1600, then 1800, and now possibly 2000 bar. My own personal belief is that it's the pressure so high that is killing these pumps and the lubrication barriers provided by the fuel being broken down or exceeded. Whether material changes or coatings can overcome these failures on the 2012 Passat remains to be seen. I know I will never knowingly pump gas into my tank, been driving diesels for far too long, sedans and trucks.

I don't think winding these cars up or hammering on the throttle does the HPFP any good, it spikes the pressures, and the other problem is letting off the throttle fully after hammering deep into the throttle spikes the pressure on the rails through the roof also, with the HPFP needing to react and bleed off excess pressure after the nozzles are no longer using it at higher rpms.
 
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tdi90hp

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 5, 2002
Location
Canuckland
TDI
2011 Golf TDI 6 speed(gone but NEVER forgotten)
The passat HPFP ends in P/N 155E, the 2009 jetta's, jsw's, and Golf's have a HPFP ending in 155A.

Pressure at the pump can be up to 2000 bar on the piezo injection version, the solenoid versions were running at 1600, then 1800, and now possibly 2000 bar. My own personal belief is that it's the pressure so high that is killing these pumps and the lubrication barriers provided by the fuel being broken down or exceeded. Whether material changes or coatings can overcome these failures on the 2012 Passat remains to be seen. I know I will never knowingly pump gas into my tank, been driving diesels for far too long, sedans and trucks.

I don't think winding these cars up or hammering on the throttle does the HPFP any good, it spikes the pressures, and the other problem is letting off the throttle fully after hammering deep into the throttle spikes the pressure on the rails through the roof also, with the HPFP needing to react and bleed off excess pressure after the nozzles are no longer using it at higher rpms.
are you suggesting to NOT rev these babies cause if you are right I am headed for trouble.....I drive mine very hard but dont abuse...full warm up...cool down but I do REV her....
 

cj42

Well-known member
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Nov 15, 2007
Location
East CT
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80 Rabbit,84 jetta,85 Jetta,03 Cummins, 2012 Passat SE 6MT Tdi
I don't know enough about these pumps but the cummina CP3 usually spikes when you let off the throttle suddenly. Does anybody know what psi they are running these or what is the max psi? 26,000? Or did they make the jump to 30,000?
 

Niner

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Jun 3, 2011
I don't know enough about these pumps but the cummina CP3 usually spikes when you let off the throttle suddenly. Does anybody know what psi they are running these or what is the max psi? 26,000? Or did they make the jump to 30,000?
2000 bar, 29,000 in PSI.
 
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Niner

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Jun 3, 2011
are you suggesting to NOT rev these babies cause if you are right I am headed for trouble.....I drive mine very hard but dont abuse...full warm up...cool down but I do REV her....
I have no suggestions for you, regardless of what my beliefs are.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
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Aug 16, 2004
Location
South of Boston
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'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
I did several WOT runs in my '12 in 3rd and 4th today to help break-in. Guess I better cut that out.
 

VeeDubTDI

Wanderluster, Traveler, TDIClub Enthusiast
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Jul 2, 2000
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La Conner, WA
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2018 Tesla Model 3: 217,000 miles
I don't think rapid fluctuations in accelerator request are going to hurt your engine or fuel pump... there is no evidence to support such a conclusion. At this point it's just an idea that someone brainstormed.

Having watched the rail pressure on several commonrail engines in all types of driving conditions, I don't think you have anything to worry about. I have not seen any abnormal spikes from simply flooring it or letting off the go pedal quickly.
 
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