2011 JSW Junk or Fix

[Char808]

Hello, long time lurker, first time poster here.

I have had a 2012 JSW TDI for about 5 years now with few issues other than the dreaded sunroof leak.

I am now approaching 130,000 miles and received the following diagnosis from a VW dealer after my check engine light came on (solid,not flashing):

- thermostat failure
- DPF failure (needs replacement, failed the soot in pipe test)
- p2002 code
- missing a bolt on the turbo
- leak on turbo piping that needs repair
- misc suspension maintenance including front wheel bearings and bushings

Also, at 130,000 I need the timing belt service.

I just exited the warranty at 126,000.

The value of these repairs and maintenance exceed the value of the car and if I take the dealers pricing at face value are almost double the value of the car.

I am in an emissions check area so can’t do a DPF delete and the car won’t pass emissions as is.

Now the rub.

I think the reason the check engine light is on is because the car won’t regen because it can’t get to temp (dash gauge indicates 180 or below typically).

Yesterday I was able to get the temp up to 190 and hold it there and drive for 15-20 or so minutes. When I turned the car back on the check engine light was off. This required holding the car a gear below where it wanted to be to generate enough heat which isn’t sustainable obviously.

So….should I roll the dice and DIY or shop repair the thermostat and turbo? I have a quote from an independent shop to do the thermostat for around $800. Or is this just throwing good money after bad?

I am likely separating-from this car and likely VW vehicles that aren’t under warranty either way. I’m just trying to maximize my value for resale or trade-in basically.

 

[Tuheeden]

Well the $55 thermostat is likely the root cause of many of the items. With a $20 OBD device you could easily tell if the turbo boost pressure is materially affected by the cracked pipe. Plastic turbo piping is EZ to buy and replace.

However, if you have clogged up the DPF and you are out of warranty AND you need a timing service (which you do at 130k) now you are talking about some real expense to correct everything. You might be better off selling it here or trading it in pretty quick.

I have 4 of these and love them but if you get behind on maintenance the costs can jump up very quick.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

I'm a little bit amazed that you'd consider junking a good car with (for a TDI) low miles on it because it needs some catch up maintenance. Where are you located? I'd suggest you find a good TDI specialist and have all the repairs done. It'll most likely cost you a fraction of what the dealer will charge. And if you want to then you can sell a good car with a lot of recent work. It's much easier to get a good price for a car that is in top shape than one that needs repairs.

 

[Shoveltrev]

i picked up a 2011 jsw with 90k on it that had a crashed fuel system that i had most parts to repair off of a low mileage core . 1800.00 . im am 4,000 total in so far and that is with the purchase price off the car, the used and new parts and also the timing belt and flywheel. i did all the work myself . id definately fix your car!

 

[Char808]

I have discussed this with a local VW specialist shop that has been performing my routine maintenance items. The total on completing the work was somewhere in the neighborhood of $5,000-6000 all in, the dealer was 1.5 to 2x that price. Thats fixing turbo, fixing DPF, fixing suspension and completing the timing belt change. I can post specific costs if people want them.

This car has been good and fit our needs when I was running 100 mile daily commutes but now I am only doing two days a week of a 30 mile round trip plus other local short trips. Overall, at this point the car is needing more maintenance than any other vehicle I have owned in my adult life so I’m not really sure what to do with it.

I think this car is worth 6-8k in my local market (PNW) but maybe I’m off base. A new Toyota Corolla hybrid off the lot is running about $22k where I am so I could pay for close to 1/4 of a brand new car under warranty that gets 50 mpg running fuel that costs $1 per gallon less and is unlikely to have immediate future maintenance items.

I’m quite tempted to replace the thermostat and see what happens.

 

[turbodieseldyke]

i picked up a 2011 jsw with 90k on it that had a crashed fuel system that i had most parts to repair off of a low mileage core . 1800

That's what i'm looking for, a wagon to drop a good engine+tranny into. I see plenty of golfs, but no jsw.

 

[kjclow]

Most of that is just basic maintenance but I understand how it sucks to have it hit all at once. I'd spread it out and get fixed what needs to be done first. Timing belt and thermostat. That might take care of the DPF issues. As Tuheedan suggested, the turbo just might need a new pipe. Wheel bearings and bushings are again basic maintenance and even the Corolla you're looking at will eventually need them.

 

[Char808]

Thanks for the input all.

Any chance the thermostat repair addresses the DPF issue or is that likely to come back up in the near future even if it clears the CEL?

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

Any chance the thermostat repair addresses the DPF issue or is that likely to come back up in the near future even if it clears the CEL?

Others have had it solve regen problems. Depends on how long it's been going on and the soot load in the DPF.

 

[borninabus]

i think that if the OP could be more specific about the actual diagnosis the forum could provide more informed responses. what codes were found?

 

[turbobrick240]

Sounds like a TDI no longer suits your needs. If you want a newer Toyota hybrid, I'd try a trade in at a Toyota dealership while you're still able to get the check engine light to go off with manual/passive regens. Dumping a bunch of money into it probably won't give a commensurate increase in the trade in value.

 

[Char808]

i think that if the OP could be more specific about the actual diagnosis the forum could provide more informed responses. what codes were found?

From the dealers repair estimate:

"scanned and found fault p2002 . . . per bulletin removed EGR filter from DPF and swiped . . . found soot present. due to soot present recommend replacing DPF . . . smoke tested the system and found turbo outlet flange missing one of two mounting bolts and leaking as well as the boost hose connecting the intercooler. recommend repairing leaking boost components, replacing DPF and retesting for possible out of spec MAF". - $3770 (indy mechanic $2850)

"found thermostat unable to maintain operating temperature. recommend replacement and re-testing" = $1310 (indy mechanic $885)

Timing belt replacement (130,000 mile service) - $1755 (indy mechanic - $1330, including water pump and serpentine belt)

Torn boot on sway bar links - $490 to replace

Ball Joint Replacement "found both front lower ball joint ball joint boot cracked and torn" - $590 ($550 @ indy)

Control arm bushings - "found control arms worn, cracking and starting to tear, recommend monitoring" - $810

Dealer recommended other maintenance totalling nearly $12,000, some of which maybe needs to be done, can be DIY'd or is because I don't typically get the car serviced at this dealer. Brakes, hood struts, windshield RainX treatment, fuel filter, brakes, etc (Appointments to get this CEL diagnosed were almost 2 months out regardless of indy or dealer so I took the first one.)

 

[Char808]

Others have had it solve regen problems. Depends on how long it's been going on and the soot load in the DPF.

Thank you. I will probably pursue the thermostat replacement to at least get the CEL to go off and for the car to pass emissions.

I was misinformed about current prices for this car. I'm seeing prices closer to $10-11,000 for similar vintage and mileage, but mine is probably not in top conditions having acquired some dents living in an urban environment.

 

[Char808]

Sounds like a TDI no longer suits your needs. If you want a newer Toyota hybrid, I'd try a trade in at a Toyota dealership while you're still able to get the check engine light to go off with manual/passive regens. Dumping a bunch of money into it probably won't give a commensurate increase in the trade in value.

The math has really flipped for me on this car, which is driving some of this current conundrum for me. When I purchased the car diesel was cheaper than gas and I was doing long highway commutes in free flow traffic at 65+ mph. Now I am primarily commuting in heavy traffic 30 miles round trip or doing 3 mile or less urban trips and diesel is $1/gal more.

I primarily view vehicles as a tool, so whatever is the best tool for the job with the least headache and lowest operating cost. A car that needs to go into the shop to slowly take care of a large amount of maintenance, have $5k worth of maintenance performed immediately and then have who knows what else happen mechanically is a headache in my book. I personally view what is in the maintenance matrix in the manual as maintenance and everything else as a repair. EG - I have a Subaru sitting in my driveway with 260,000 miles on it, the original thermostat, two new timing belts plus normal scheduled maintenance and tires. However, I did need to repair the head gaskets and CV joints when they failed.

The real eye opener is when my indy mechanic said something to the effect of "I don't like these cars, we keep seeing issues like this just out of warranty and I wouldn't keep it if it was mine. "

I assume that even if I am able to keep the check engine light off that a dealer is going to be able to see the recent codes?

Where would I look for a good video or instructions on the thermostat replacement if I were to DIY?

Again, thank you all for your input. It's made me go back and rethink my original position and approach.

 

[turbodieseldyke]

I assume that even if I am able to keep the check engine light off that a dealer is going to be able to see the recent codes?

If you're thinking of trade-in value, "I dunno, something was malfunctioning before, and it is fixed now." But a Toyota dealer won't be able to see old codes.

 

[turbobrick240]

I assume that even if I am able to keep the check engine light off that a dealer is going to be able to see the recent codes?

Where would I look for a good video or instructions on the thermostat replacement if I were to DIY?

Again, thank you all for your input. It's made me go back and rethink my original position and approach.

Dealerships will be highly variable on trade-in inspections. Some will just basically check the mileage and for obvious body damage. Others will give it a more thorough examination.

 

[oilhammer]

A thermostat won't fixed a cracked DPF.

 

[kjclow]

The real eye opener is when my indy mechanic said something to the effect of "I don't like these cars, we keep seeing issues like this just out of warranty and I wouldn't keep it if it was mine. "

Obviously not a TDI guru. My independent has never made those kind of comments about anything I bring in to him.

 

[oilhammer]

Well, subjective but I cannot say he or she doesn't have plenty of evidence to draw that opinion. Because I sort of have the same one, although the delete route does at least make them more tolerable. I have another CJAA here with a cracked DPF, so it isn't like it doesn't happen.

The real issue with this is, these are not "clogging up" in the essence that normal use would be expected. They are BREAKING, and they are not cheap nor easy to replace.

 

[Char808]

Obviously not a TDI guru. My independent has never made those kind of comments about anything I bring in to him.

VW/Audi specific shop that has been in business for 23 years and to this point has been nothing but honest and straightforward.

 

[Char808]

Well, subjective but I cannot say he or she doesn't have plenty of evidence to draw that opinion. Because I sort of have the same one, although the delete route does at least make them more tolerable. I have another CJAA here with a cracked DPF, so it isn't like it doesn't happen.

The real issue with this is, these are not "clogging up" in the essence that normal use would be expected. They are BREAKING, and they are not cheap nor easy to replace.

Is there a way to determine if this is just a clogged or non-regen’d (forgive me, I’m sure my vocabulary here is lacking) DPF that can be resolved with a thermostat swap versus a cracked DPF that must be repaired/replaced for the CEL to stay off?

Edit - is there a good thread on this topic already I can review on the thermostat/DPF issue so you all don’t have to rehash the topic?

Again, thank you for your insight.

 

[turbobrick240]

If there's soot inside the tailpipe, the dpf is cracked.

 

[Char808]

If there's soot inside the tailpipe, the dpf is cracked.

So that’s what they are checking when they swiped the pipe in the dealer notes?

IE - they did the check to see if it was cracked and got a positive result thus the recommendation to replace?

 

[turbobrick240]

So that’s what they are checking when they swiped the pipe in the dealer notes?

IE - they did the check to see if it was cracked and got a positive result thus the recommendation to replace?

Yup, soot indicates a cracked dpf.

 

[turbodieseldyke]

Someone explained to me how you can "live with" a cracked DPF, by cleaning out the egr filter every 2000 miles or so. He eventually got tired of it, and got it replaced.

 

[oilhammer]

There are oodles of threads on this topic. This was an issue BEFORE the Dieselgate fiasco even happened. It's just worse now.

There is a TSB about it.

Your DPF is cracked. Soot in the tailpipe.... a thermostat isn't going to fix this any more than a new set of brake pads would.

 

[turbobrick240]

I'd clean the car up real nice, get that check engine light off, and see what you can get on a trade in.

 

[almus]

Hello, long time lurker, first time poster here.

I have had a 2012 JSW TDI for about 5 years now with few issues other than the dreaded sunroof leak.

I am now approaching 130,000 miles and received the following diagnosis from a VW dealer after my check engine light came on (solid,not flashing):

- thermostat failure
- DPF failure (needs replacement, failed the soot in pipe test)
- p2002 code
- missing a bolt on the turbo
- leak on turbo piping that needs repair
- misc suspension maintenance including front wheel bearings and bushings

Also, at 130,000 I need the timing belt service.

I just exited the warranty at 126,000.

The value of these repairs and maintenance exceed the value of the car and if I take the dealers pricing at face value are almost double the value of the car.

I am in an emissions check area so can’t do a DPF delete and the car won’t pass emissions as is.

Now the rub.

I think the reason the check engine light is on is because the car won’t regen because it can’t get to temp (dash gauge indicates 180 or below typically).

Yesterday I was able to get the temp up to 190 and hold it there and drive for 15-20 or so minutes. When I turned the car back on the check engine light was off. This required holding the car a gear below where it wanted to be to generate enough heat which isn’t sustainable obviously.

So….should I roll the dice and DIY or shop repair the thermostat and turbo? I have a quote from an independent shop to do the thermostat for around $800. Or is this just throwing good money after bad?

I am likely separating-from this car and likely VW vehicles that aren’t under warranty either way. I’m just trying to maximize my value for resale or trade-in basically.

800 to replace a thermostat?

800 should be enough to have the TB done.

I just did my first TB on a 2011--- Easier than a MK4 was my conclusion

 

[oilhammer]

Yes, the CJAA thermostat is pricey. 2.7hr labor, plus the part itself, plus I always do the plastic pipe that can break. Maybe not quite 800, but not far off. Timing belt is closer to 1100.

Dealer would generally be the most expensive place to have these done.

Of course, the DPF is even more.

 

[Char808]

800 to replace a thermostat?

800 should be enough to have the TB done.

I just did my first TB on a 2011--- Easier than a MK4 was my conclusion

The independent mechanic prices I have above are quite competitive for my area based on calls to multiple shops.