2011 2.0 CR 6spd DKM SMF clutch DISASTER (dead synchros, new trans, new clutch)

[SmokeFree]

Good morning, haven't posted or been on this site in many years but I feel the need to make this post to warn any people that aren't aware of this problem, and also gain (hopefully) some support on what to do next with ECS and DKM.

Back in October/November 2020, my 2011 Golf 6 speed slave cylinder gave up, leaking, at 96k miles. Due to the lovely new slave cylinder design, the trans had to be pulled. It was suggest by 2 different mechanics to get rid of the DMF, which I agreed with, having done this on 2 previous ALH motors. Right around the same time I was getting a Stage 1 Kerma tune, so it made sense to go with the DKM stage 2 SMF clutch kit, sold on ECS tuning. So I bought that, the local shop near me installed the kit without any issues.

As soon as I got the car back, WOW, it was noisy as hell. DKM did warn about the chatter, but my MK4 never chattered like this. Clutch pedal was stiff as hell, but I didn't mind it. My wife hated it, but we both got used to it fast.

About a month of light driving later, mostly highway, 3rd gear started to grind. BTW it never did grind before this clutch mod. Cut to mid-March, I've been avoiding 3rd wherever I could while driving. Out of no where, in a parking lot, 1st and 2nd gear become impossible to shift into without MAJOR grinding. I manage to limp it to the highway, and there are no issues on the way home in 4,5 and 6 gear. 3rd still grinds, same as always.

I immediately changed the trans fluid, which was at the correct level, with VW fluid, and nothing changed.
The shop that installed the clutch kit proceeds to bleed the clutch, adjust shifter, fill trans with Syncromesh, to no avail. The trans is pulled, and I bring it to North Jersey Motorworks, a trusted VW transmission expert. Slave cylinder and clutch still look brand-new inside transmission when pulled, as was expected.

Inside he finds dead synchros, the dogs and retaining clips have rattled apart, and it is a complete rebuild, or used trans at this point.



I have bought a good used trans, CODE LHD, and now have a LUK DMF and clutch from Rockauto ready to be installed this upcoming week.

ECS has been very helpful, and they assure me that I SHOULD have no problems getting a refund for the clutch, from DKM. After some research, I have found I am not the only one who has had this problem, of having a trans basically SELF DESTRUCT from the excessive rattling of the DKM SMF kit. The ECS tech I got on the phone told me that DKM is looking into this problem with this kit, but they don't have any definite answers as of yet.

I am currently out of pocket: Cost of DKM SMF kit ($850), cost to install slave cylinder and clutch kit ($1000), which was fine, I was happy to pay that assuming it was a one time deal... Used O2Q LHD trans ($750), new LUK kit ($500), plus cost of the same shop to diagnose, remove and reinstall the trans and clutch AGAIN, which I am assuming will be at least $1000 again.

My questions are:

Why are they selling these kits without any warnings other than its "noisy"?
Has anyone else on this site had a similar issue?
I don't want to use the DKM clutch, but would anyone advise me to reinstall it?
Is there a class action suit against DKM that anyone is aware of?

I hate to ***** about stuff, I really do, but this whole situation has me pretty pissed off. Just want my car back on the road, and some sort of warranty compensation from DKM. Their product ruined my otherwise perfectly good manual trans, and is costing me a few thousand to fix it, to boot.

 

[CleverUserName]

You should have done more research. The later 02Q 6MT with steel synchros are not compatible with SMFs. Your mechanics should also have aware of this as well.

There is a fluidamper for SMF retrofit. It’s $450 and helps with vibrations along with Redline super light shockproof gear oil. There is an upgraded performance Sachs SRE DMF and clutch that is stronger as well. They are available from the UK, darkside sells them. Another option are brass synchros which were available in the early 02Q transmissions.

I have the SRE kit and fluidamper. Both are going in with my CR170 turbo and CP3 as I didn’t trust the SMF solution and didn’t want to destroy my transmission.

 

[SmokeFree]

The transmission I have had brass synchros upon inspection. I thought we would find steel.

DKM should advise its customers about the (brass/steel) synchro discrepancy as well, in my opinion.

I appreciate the reply, but telling me I should have done more research is not helpful at this point in time. If DKM is selling this kit, they should have done their research and should advise customers of potential problems.

 

[turbobrick240]

Pretty much everyone that installs a SMF kit on the 02Q equipped commonrails has the same result. I agree that it is negligent for the manufacturers and vendors to continue selling the SMF kits for those vehicles. They've been aware of the problem for years now.

 

[SmokeFree]

I’d like to see if anyone has been successful in being compensated for the damage done to their transmissions. There is absolutely no reason this part should be sold without a MAJOR warning, if said part can potentially grenade your transmission in less than 6 months of light driving. Remember, 3rd gear starting grinding within a month. I babied the car after that, and still, synchros couldn’t survive the chatter.

 

[adjat84th]

Fluidampr didn't save mine either, lost 2nd gear within 10k miles and upon opening the gearbox had 2 of 3 dogs on 1st gear that were gone as well. This was with a DC Stage 3 clutch, the lighter flywheel also sped up the damage.
Back to Sachs SRE w/DMF and all is well again after repairing the synchros. Darkside is one of the few vendors that has a disclaimer on the SMF kits being not advised for the newer 02Qs with steel synchros.
I agree though that ALL vendors need to have a disclaimer if offering a SMF for the later 02Qs.

 

[CleverUserName]

I thought ECS sold the kit?

Yes there should be a warning about vibrations, special gear oil and possible damage. Absolutely. However if that was included it’s likely they wouldn’t sell many kits.

I’d be pissed at the shop who recommended the work to be done. They should know a SMF has no business being on a tuned CR. You’re a forum member and should have asked questions before it was installed as it would have saved you all this grief and $$.

Has anybody successfully run a SMF on a tuned CR without destroying the synchros?

The transmission I have had brass synchros upon inspection. I thought we would find steel.

DKM should advise its customers about the (brass/steel) synchro discrepancy as well, in my opinion.

I appreciate the reply, but telling me I should have done more research is not helpful at this point in time. If DKM is selling this kit, they should have done their research and should advise customers of potential problems.

 

[miningman]

once again , caveat emptor. Thats all folks

 

[turbobrick240]

I don't think the tunes have much to do with it. My guess is those particular engines have unique harmonics, probably a result of the multiple injection events and I4 configuration.

 

[SmokeFree]

I thought ECS sold the kit?

Yes there should be a warning about vibrations, special gear oil and possible damage. Absolutely. However if that was included it’s likely they wouldn’t sell many kits.

I’d be pissed at the shop who recommended the work to be done. They should know a SMF has no business being on a tuned CR. You’re a forum member and should have asked questions before it was installed as it would have saved you all this grief and $$.

Has anybody successfully run a SMF on a tuned CR without destroying the synchros?

ECS sells DKM’s product. DKM should give ECS more info on their product. I will be reaching out to DKM directly as well.

So what you are saying is that they should sell more kits, and worry less about giving pertinent info about damage to the consumers car?

2 shops suggested the SMF move to me, and my trusted trans guy knew nothing about this synchro problem. I find it pretty annoying you are shifting blame from the manufacturers of the product that is still on the market... to the consumer. When the product shouldn’t be on the market anymore.

 

[CleverUserName]

Not shifting blame, just “being real” as they say.

You’re naive if you think retailers and manufacturers are inherently ethical. Guess what? Most are not honest or ethical. I doubt you’re the first person to buy one of these kits and had it grenade their 02Q. Yet ECS is still selling them and DKM, DC, SBC and others are still making kits. Soooo here we are.

With that being said, the shop who recommended the SMF does share some blame and I would be angry at them. They clearly don’t know what they’re talking about, and are likely not very experienced with the MK6 platform and it’s shortcomings. They led you in this direction when a SACHS SRE kit was the answer.

ECS sells DKM’s product. DKM should give ECS more info on their product. I will be reaching out to DKM directly as well.

So what you are saying is that they should sell more kits, and worry less about giving pertinent info about damage to the consumers car?

2 shops suggested the SMF move to me, and my trusted trans guy knew nothing about this synchro problem. I find it pretty annoying you are shifting blame from the manufacturers of the product that is still on the market... to the consumer. When the product shouldn’t be on the market anymore.

 

[ticaf]

Tough one. Shouldn't the shop be 100% responsible, that is if they are the one recommending you the single mass flywheel conversion.

 

[SmokeFree]

The shop installed the kit I bought. They didn’t supply the materials so they are not responsible. End of story. The manufacturer of said product, DKM, and I suspect others, are selling parts that kill Mk6 transmissions. I feel they are responsible.

Clever, I’m definitely not the first person to have this problem, you yourself said I should have done more research, and that it was a common problem. I did research, but I was too late.

What I did read is that only steel synchros are a problem, and this is not true. I had brass synchros, and they died too. Doesn’t seem to matter what metal is in the trans. Now it’s shavings in the bottom of the gearbox.

If anyone can give me any more info other than “do your research” or “blame your mechanic”, great. I welcome it.

 

[SmokeFree]

I should elaborate that the shop that installed the kit DID NOT recommend it to me. It was another shop. The ones that installed the kit are not VW gurus, but well trained mechanics. They delivered on their end of the work. I can’t blame them. And they are awesome, they are discounting my labor on this next go around because they feel bad for me. They’ve gone above and beyond for me so far. Just thought I should mention that.

 

[adjat84th]

My ex still has a '15 GSW and recently experienced the common slave cylinder failing. Leaked all over so new clutch time. She was 6 hours from home and the shop I tried to get them to was familiar with VWs and TDIs and even THEY recommended an SMF kit to her. I spoke to the mechanic and quickly brought them up to speed on what years you simply can no longer use SMFs on the TDIs even though they still sell them. Reason the manufacturers still sell them is the 02Q is used on the GTIs/Rs and they have much less clatter when going SMF, though they likely will see synchro issues down the road. Clutchmasters now offers a "heavy" SMF for those cars to help.

 

[SmokeFree]

Anyone else with these issues please chime in. I appreciate you sharing your experience adjat84th.

 

[Andyinchville1]

Hi

Just curious , but how would one know if they had brass or steel synchros in their 6 speed?

I have been looking / thinking about a 6 speed swap for my car .... i assume the alh engine would not make a difference vibration wise and the dmf should still be use if the trans has steel synchros?

Thanks
Andrew

 

[oilhammer]

This is old news, I'm afraid. The 6sp with the diesel just does not tolerate not having the added dampening of a DMF. Sucks you did not find out about it until now.

 

[adjat84th]

Hi

Just curious , but how would one know if they had brass or steel synchros in their 6 speed?

I have been looking / thinking about a 6 speed swap for my car .... i assume the alh engine would not make a difference vibration wise and the dmf should still be use if the trans has steel synchros?

Thanks
Andrew

The 02M has brass and is typical for ALH swaps as they were mated to the Mk4 R32s. The early 02Qs still had brass as well up through '09 and possibly some early '10s, but a VIN check would likely be the only way to tell without opening it up. The 02Q and 02M are VERY similar, to the point you could swap the 02M 1-4gear output shaft into an 02Q if you wanted to retain the brass synchros. The synchros themselves can't be swapped, you have to match to the corresponding gear as they fit into the face of the gears a certain way.

Sadly, this makes the DSG the better gearbox for performance upgrades by far on the 02Q equipped cars.

 

[CleverUserName]

I thought only 2009 was brass, but The OP has a 2011, so they were using brass up until then. You can see they are brass in the pic.

Is there a VIN Range for the brass synchros?

The 02M has brass and is typical for ALH swaps as they were mated to the Mk4 R32s. The early 02Qs still had brass as well up through '09 and possibly some early '10s, but a VIN check would likely be the only way to tell without opening it up. The 02Q and 02M are VERY similar, to the point you could swap the 02M 1-4gear output shaft into an 02Q if you wanted to retain the brass synchros. The synchros themselves can't be swapped, you have to match to the corresponding gear as they fit into the face of the gears a certain way.

Sadly, this makes the DSG the better gearbox for performance upgrades by far on the 02Q equipped cars.

 

[adjat84th]

The OPs pictures have some brass forks and a brass synchro on I believe what is reverse or 5th/6th gear (my 02Q has a brass 4th gear synchro as well). The first picture of the 1-4 output you can clearly see the steel synchros.

 

[Rrusse11]

I installed a South Bend Stage 2 and an SMF on my 2010 after upgrading to the CR170, mebbe 7-8 yrs ago. The clatter warned me that this was NOT healthy. A fluidampr helped a lot, and I ran the car about 30k until I got rearended and totalled. At the time this problem was just beginning to surface, and in retrospect I got more out of my build than most.

Took the payout and bought an ALH. Haven't looked back since.

Immediately after the install I started researching, as mentioned above, the harmonics are NOT conducive to longevity.
My 02J is doing great after 60k with a taller 5th and a 22#SMF, the 6spd is wildly over rated IMO. I did pick up a used Fluidampr in the classifieds 4yrs or so ago, for $200 it was a bargain. I'm a fan as to how it is a BIG improvement over the stock pulley, and while not strictly necessary in an ALH, it does smooth out the drivetrain.

With a new upgraded heavy duty DMF and the 02M, you might be alright, but like I said, I'm not a fan, the extra gear is superfluous. With the right ratios in the 5spd, and my mods, I'm much happier with my current setup than I ever was with the "new & improved" 2.0 CR. Lol, flame away folks, but I'll bet I'll still be driving my ALH long after you've traded your CRs in.

Last highway trip returned 43mpg cruising at 80, and I got a heavy foot. That'll do me! It gets me to that 80 PDQ,
and I don't spare the revs either, another big mistake IMO for longevity. Don't lug your diesel! They don't like it.

My $.02 FWIW

 

[SmokeFree]

This is old news, I'm afraid. The 6sp with the diesel just does not tolerate not having the added dampening of a DMF. Sucks you did not find out about it until now.

If this is old news, then they shouldn’t sell these kits anymore. I’m surprised that there isn’t a little more outrage that these kits are still on the market.

 

[Rrusse11]

" they shouldn’t sell these kits anymore "

And who exactly is supposed to be stopping them from doing that? Welcome to the age of freedoms,,,
And then we can debate forever about the nature of society, rules, restrictions, culpability and accountability.
and government, or not to govern. Howzabout ethics? It's a fair comment, just unanwerable.

 

[Nevada_TDI]

There are those that have no ethics and do not care as long as they get your money.
Drawing and quartering are old ways, but wouldn't people think twice before knowingly selling you bad parts.

 

[SmokeFree]

There are repercussions to selling a bad product in this “free” market. Products that fail are one thing. People accept this for reduced costs and quality. Products that cause other parts to fail, like a perfectly running 6spd trans, should have a well informed disclaimer prior to purchase. Comparing the 2 situations is not the same. Neither DKM nor ECS gives any warning of damage. Which is again, “old news”.
Anyways... I’ll be submitting a claim soon.. car will be back tomorrow. I’ll keep you all updated.

btw: is there an older thread or post where all this old news took place and has since been forgotten? It should be a sticky at this point.

 

[CleverUserName]

There are repercussions to selling a bad product in this “free” market. Products that fail are one thing. People accept this for reduced costs and quality. Products that cause other parts to fail, like a perfectly running 6spd trans, should have a well informed disclaimer prior to purchase. Comparing the 2 situations is not the same. Neither DKM nor ECS gives any warning of damage. Which is again, “old news”.
Anyways... I’ll be submitting a claim soon.. car will be back tomorrow. I’ll keep you all updated.

btw: is there an older thread or post where all this old news took place and has since been forgotten? It should be a sticky at this point.

Yes and I did find an older thread in which one of the vendors who posts frequently on here actually recommended a SMF conversion on a CR TDI. This was in like 2014-2015. If someone where to do a very limited search and found that thread they would think it was OK.


Maybe the SMF will work OK in a stock car but any kind of tuning will cause damage? Not sure but I wouldn't risk it personally.

 

[redbarron55]

If the engine did not require the DMF there would not be one installed.

 

[adjat84th]

Search on TDIclub for "02Q synchros" and you'll find more than one thread.

SMF will cause damage regardless of tuning or stock. It's the ignition pulses that are stronger due to higher compression ratio than gassers that causes the gears to slap back and forth without some large harmonic dampening. The ears on the synchros that keep them in place rattle back and forth (that's the extra noise you hear) and eventually they snap off allowing the synchro to spin freely which means goodbye gear.

 

[turbobrick240]

I think it may be more the frequency than the amplitude of the oscillations that does the damage. The older tdi's had higher compression yet seemed to get along with SMFs better. I guess someone would need to install a steel synchro 02Q and SMF on one of the older, higher compression tdi cars to test that theory. Sort of like shattering a wine glass by getting it resonating at just the right frequency.