200HP 1997 Jetta TDI

[D_Bat]

I didn't see the liberty on that list but I'm sure it's a 2056. The mercedes one I have is a GTA2056VK which is a.... 2nd Gen VGT? Whups, those start with 224hp. Even better.

 

[Stealth TDI]

Hmmm,

I did a AGR 90 hp with FINturbo pnp turbo (GT2052)
I made over 200 hp but first 2 gears didn't built any boost before 3000 rpm. In 4th and 5th it spools from 2000 rpm.

That is how the T3 I tested for Upsolute years ago behaved (with the likely exception of the 200-hp part). It was a real hoot from 3500-4500 rpm and probably would have been a good drag car. But I autocross and daily drive and was disappointed with the big turbo's response in "normal" driving... especially the big belch of smoke accompanied by "no go" until 1000 rpm later.

I'm still hoping to see a readily available modified rear engine mount. Without one, we NA AHU drivers can only dream of a VNT conversion (I don't know why the European cars are different). My plan would be to have a modified mount on hand to minimize downtime during the conversion... maybe even install one ASAP so I can consider a VNT swap on short notice.

Later,

Scott

 

[Rub87]

you can just leave the mount inplace and move the turbo more backwards instead of downwards....? I'll post again a picture as inspiration

these manifolds are found on many cars, including all mk3 vnt engines (afn) and mk4 asv engines in mk3 style bodies (ibiza asv), vw passat, audi a4/a6 (110hp vp, PD100, PD130) until the recent model with transverse engine, almost all audi A4 etc etc

direct bolt on turbos are passat/a4/a6 gt1749va and the KKK turbo from a 170hp version audi A4, and with adapterplate almost any reclockable turbo is quite easily fittable

and these manifolds flow quite well when ported

 

[dieseleux]

Jeep Liberty 2005-2006 VNT turbo
Exaust Wheel: 47.14/42.71mm Trim: 0.82 0.64A/R
Compressor: 56/39.6mm Trim: 0.50 53A/R

versus

VNT1749VA

And this is picture of the vane of 3rd generation of Garrett VNT
Turbine spec
42mm dia output gaz
13 vane
9 blade turbine

Compressor spec
exducer=56mm
inducer=39.6mm
Trim 50

Dieseleux

 

[jsrmonster]

Here is the early mk4 AFN110 2piece exhaust manifold. Great for A3 projects w/big turbos, and oem motor mounts ;-)

 

[hendomatic]

Here is the early mk4 AFN110 2piece exhaust manifold. Great for A3 projects w/big turbos, and oem motor mounts ;-)

So do we just need to take a european vacation and comb the junkyards for an AFN mannie or who can ship a few across the pond?

AHU owners want to know!

I'd love to do a GT2056v or a VNT20, but i cant figure out a good manifold, turbo combo.

 

[D_Bat]

I'll post pics when I start doing the fitment for mine. I'm trying to get a spare block and head to use for fitment out of the car. Since my turbo has the turbine inlet facing the same direction as the DP I have to make a crazy weird adapter pipe. I'm hoping there will be enough room to flip the manifold upside down to make the adapter pipe fit better.

 

[traxterXT]

to fit a GT2056 you can also use a Mk2 turbo diesel manifold with an adapter plate.

 

[kooyajerms]

to fit a GT2056 you can also use a Mk2 turbo diesel manifold with an adapter plate.

have you tried the fitment? Does it clear the motor mount by raising the turbo higher? Adapter plate is for turbo to mani, what about the dp?

you can just leave the mount inplace and move the turbo more backwards instead of downwards....? I'll post again a picture as inspiration

these manifolds are found on many cars, including all mk3 vnt engines (afn) and mk4 asv engines in mk3 style bodies (ibiza asv), vw passat, audi a4/a6 (110hp vp, PD100, PD130) until the recent model with transverse engine, almost all audi A4 etc etc

direct bolt on turbos are passat/a4/a6 gt1749va and the KKK turbo from a 170hp version audi A4, and with adapterplate almost any reclockable turbo is quite easily fittable

and these manifolds flow quite well when ported

Ruben is the mk2 motor mount the same for the mk3 (b4 passat)? Looking to see if the turbo will clear the mount in the same manner if the manifold raises it higher

Also anyone know if we will need special oil lines or will stock work once the turbo's reclocked?

Jeremy

 

[Rub87]

I think they're the same yes.. passat is a little wider so you've got more room for the pipings on the right side of the car

 

[hendomatic]

to fit a GT2056 you can also use a Mk2 turbo diesel manifold with an adapter plate.

Anyone have pics of this Mk2 manifold?

Wanted to know what it looked like.

 

[LNXGUY]

Stock mk2 diesel manu pictured besides a stock vnt15... The other turbo in the pic is a VNT20.. Definitely will need some sort of adapter plate.

 

[hendomatic]

Ok so how about this combo.

This mannie with a T25 flange:

And this turbo GT2056

Seems like it would be very similar to the setup you just proposed.
Thanks for the pics.

 

[Stealth TDI]

How big is that GT2056 compared to a T3? I'm speaking external dimensions. If they're about the same, I can dig up some photos of my T3 install to show you potential snags with that exhaust manifold. If the GT2056 is smaller, then the snags I had may not be a problem. Let me know and I'll dig up some links after work tomorrow...

 

[hendomatic]

I would love to know how big that GT2056 is. The pic is a stock pic from the Garrett website.

http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbobygarrett/catelog/Turbochargers/GT20/GT2056_751578_2.htm

I've searched high and low and have not been able to guess how "tall" a GT2056 turbo is if you sit it on its exhaust flange and measure its height.

The T3 flange is bigger than the T25 flange, IIRC.

I'm betting the combo mannie and turbo will just clear the firewall, but might get close as the motor rocks back towards the firewall under load

 

[Stealth TDI]

Okay. Here's what I could find:

Stock vs. T3...

It was a tight fit and was a real PITA to get in there...

The turbo was barely 1/4" from the firewall and definitely made contact while driving. But the biggest problem was the close proximity to the AC lines. It made smooth intake routing almost impossible...

Here's a conventional elbow trimmed to clear the AC lines...

I did experiment with a COBRA HEAD ELBOW. It was still not ideal for great airflow. But it DID clear the AC lines...

Be VERY careful when considering the exhaust manifold you are considering. That particular one cheats the turbo off to the passenger side. This will reduce your AC line clearance and, if I recall, bring your turbo very close to the rear engine mount (if not impact it). You might have a good candidate if that manifold can be flipped? I had considered THIS MANIFOLD. But it also would reduce clearance on the intake side.

The thing that killed the T3 project for me was the turbo's slow spool. It pulled like a VR6 at 4000 rpm. But that party was over REAL fast. It was dog-slow below 3600 rpm and smoked under light acceleration (yeah... the tune was crap, I know). Because of the epic fail of that project, I am VERY reluctant to try a larger wastegated turbo until after someone else in North America does it, DYNO's IT, and can list the parts needed to make it fit. No more pioneering for me!

Good Luck,

Scott

Oh, to be fair, DLai did use a GT20 of some sort in his A4 with relative success (search for it). The VNTs have exceeded his feat. But his numbers were okay IF the dyno he used is traditionally conservative (I get a feeling my current numbers may be better than this dyno). But no one has openly tested and dyno-proven the same turbo on an AHU to my knowledge (AHUs never really responded to upgrades as well as the ALH). Here's his dyno plot:

 

[Spulen81]

I have a Gt2052 in my car right now. I made the manifold so it fit where I wanted it but I bet that. That T2 flanged cast manifold wasn't available yet or I would have tried it out. I don't have any numbers on the car yet. It spools up really quickly but it may have to do with my other mods and the tune. Here is an old pic during mock up stages, it has a A/W intercooler now..and a new chassis.

 

[kooyajerms]

Look at that fat D24 manifold! Looks wonderful.

Ryan's been quiet about his AHU, someone should get him dyno'd so we can fien over his setup some more.

 

[hendomatic]

Thanks for the pics. They really put things in perspective.

I'm willing to bet that your T3 is significantly larger than the GT2056. But I dont have a good grip on that perspective. I just took receipt of my PD130 mannie and it sure is large in picture form and small in my hands

Here is a pic of dlai's install that shows clearly the tight fit.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=776646&postcount=74

That exhaust mannie looks much taller than the one I have seen on fleabay. It also looks like a T3 manifold with an adapter to fit a T25 flange.

And I have also looked at that manifold with the down-angled flange as well. Very tempting. But I think that has a T3 flange instead of the T25.

The T3 class turbo comes in several A/R configurations. Do you know specifically what model number you were using? (I hope im talking the right terminology)

the GT2056 is in the "small frame" category so I think there would be some more room and I was looking at flipping that one mannie to get the turbo as close to the drivers side as possible.

Of course, I'm just learning all these terms so please correct anything I've posted that is incorrect.

 

[shortysclimbin]

From my calculations the gt2052 is going to be to small to reach your power goals.

With using some key values (A/F 22:1, 4000 rpm limit, and a BFSC of .38) I was finding that the GT2860RS-739548-5 would have the best chance for offering 200whp with some smoke... Ideally I would also pair this up with a GT2252-452187-6 to decrease lag and open up a few more HP. Fitting these turbos will require some handy work with the manifolds as stated above. Looking around at the t3/t4 that was being used for the drag kit I bet that turbo actually would bet a really good turbo to start out with for a twins kit...

On another note: Going through the math it seams it would be much easier to increase displacement of the engine with a set of pistons and modify the bowl design slightly to allow a 16.8:1 Stoichiometric ratio with low smoke. This would greatly improve where these little boat anchors sit on compressor maps and help make them more managable for higher power regions.

 

[hatemi]

2056 has propably the best comprossor map for a daily driver with a WG.

 

[hendomatic]

2056 has propably the best comprossor map for a daily driver with a WG.

Thats the same conclusion I had after looking at the A/R and map.

Personally, I'm not looking for big power. I just want 20-23psi stable and good pulling past 4k rpm. I have RC3+ PP520's and a stock pump. It would be nice to have the foot on the floor and no smoke. Whatever that adds up to would be fine for me. The car is pretty zippy at this point.

 

[Spulen81]

"That exhaust mannie looks much taller than the one I have seen on fleabay. It also looks like a T3 manifold with an adapter to fit a T25 flange."
Thats exactly what it was. The manifold is otherwise the same so you'll gain a 1/2" clearance. I used this manifold with larger T3/T4s and they fit OK with minor blunt force clearancing.

I plan on doing compound turbos in the future but I need to save up for rods. I think the GT2052 is going to make a good quick spooling high pressure turbo. It makes decent power as a single but not enough for me.

 

[numbnuts]

This might have been put up here before but just stumbled across this website listing all turbos and what vehicles they came off, so ideal for ebay shopping

http://www.turbo-product.com/Garrett/

 

[VW97JettaTDI]

ok after reading every ones thread i have a very diff perspective so let me try asking a dumb question.
Ok so i understand most of the turbos and primarily i need one that is simple yet fast spool with constant power. Of course i want a VGT but because AHU/1Z dont have vacume lines and what not they cant work. so why wouldnt the next best bet be a t3/t4 or even a vnt-17 i hear all this about the gt2052.. but will that be a direct bolt up or is there swaping or oil lines and such. ALSO where is every one getting all these aftermarket intake mani's from and what are you doing about the EGR, doesent your ecu freak??? any advice guys..

im looking to for max power with some stronger pistons, intercooler, intake, injectors, turbo and maybe a 11mm fuel pump!

 

[hatemi]

Converting AHU to VNT is silly easy. You neeed AFN n75 valve, few meters of 3.2mm tubing for vacum lines and some T-connectors for it. Getting the vacume reservoir from ALH would also be a good idea. Then all you need is a good remap from tuner of your likeing and youre set. I'm pretty sure all of the US tuners know how to do such a conversion.

So what is your max power goal then? 200hp, 250hp, 300hp? That pretty much defines what is needed and where to go next.

You can convert to 11mm pump but youll need to change the pump bracket to one that you can fit the ALH pump in. Then youll need to redo the wiring connections since AHU has different plugs than ALH.

ok after reading every ones thread i have a very diff perspective so let me try asking a dumb question.
Ok so i understand most of the turbos and primarily i need one that is simple yet fast spool with constant power. Of course i want a VGT but because AHU/1Z dont have vacume lines and what not they cant work. so why wouldnt the next best bet be a t3/t4 or even a vnt-17 i hear all this about the gt2052.. but will that be a direct bolt up or is there swaping or oil lines and such. ALSO where is every one getting all these aftermarket intake mani's from and what are you doing about the EGR, doesent your ecu freak??? any advice guys..

im looking to for max power with some stronger pistons, intercooler, intake, injectors, turbo and maybe a 11mm fuel pump!

 

[VW97JettaTDI]

Converting AHU to VNT is silly easy. You neeed AFN n75 valve, few meters of 3.2mm tubing for vacum lines and some T-connectors for it. Getting the vacume reservoir from ALH would also be a good idea. Then all you need is a good remap from tuner of your likeing and youre set. I'm pretty sure all of the US tuners know how to do such a conversion.

So what is your max power goal then? 200hp, 250hp, 300hp? That pretty much defines what is needed and where to go next.

You can convert to 11mm pump but youll need to change the pump bracket to one that you can fit the ALH pump in. Then youll need to redo the wiring connections since AHU has different plugs than ALH.

ok, so you make it sound so easy... its normal to think this i hope. but going from non vacume to vacume wont that screw with things alot? and yes my plan is a strong engine with good milage. i dont care about power so long as its more than the wimpy 140hp four cylinders and 1.8t's/vr6

has any one done the vnt 17 and been able to easily hit 200? and is that your safest bet for reliability? i want a car that i can trust wich can be a joke in the tuner world when your in experienced!

 

[dieseleux]

Converting AHU to VNT is silly easy. You neeed AFN n75 valve, few meters of 3.2mm tubing for vacum lines and some T-connectors for it. Getting the vacume reservoir from ALH would also be a good idea. Then all you need is a good remap from tuner of your likeing and youre set. I'm pretty sure all of the US tuners know how to do such a conversion.

So what is your max power goal then? 200hp, 250hp, 300hp? That pretty much defines what is needed and where to go next.

You can convert to 11mm pump but youll need to change the pump bracket to one that you can fit the ALH pump in. Then youll need to redo the wiring connections since AHU has different plugs than ALH.

I change my AHU engine pump with ALH 11mm pump, i use top of AHU pump on new ALH pump to keep wiring intact, work good and trouble free.
And this week a start my convertion to VNT with brand new GTB2056.



Dieseleux

 

[hatemi]

The vacume lines are realy easy. IIRC your vacume lines from pump to brake assister do have plugged nipples already fitted. Or you could use a T from EGR plumbing to go to the new n75. Then youll need to connect the one port of the valve to actuator and one to your intake piping/some filter and then to atmosphere. It dosnt screw anything up unlsees you do the plumbing wrong, but if you take 5 minutes to think its easy.

For a turbo I would get something larger than vnt17. Some new generation VNTs are very good for your goals. The larger the better For safety you dont want the torque that you would get from vnt17 since that is what brakes things up. Some turbo that reacts tad slower and with moderate fueling will yeld better results reliability wise.

ok, so you make it sound so easy... its normal to think this i hope. but going from non vacume to vacume wont that screw with things alot? and yes my plan is a strong engine with good milage. i dont care about power so long as its more than the wimpy 140hp four cylinders and 1.8t's/vr6

has any one done the vnt 17 and been able to easily hit 200? and is that your safest bet for reliability? i want a car that i can trust wich can be a joke in the tuner world when your in experienced!

 

[TDIMeister]

has any one done the vnt 17 and been able to easily hit 200? and is that your safest bet for reliability?

You obviously have not read several posts from various people above.