2009 Jetta turned off at stop light and while driving

[freakmike3]

Hey guys,

So on Friday I was sitting at a light and the engine turned off. I did not lose power as ac, radio, most instruments were still working. I turned everything off, turned the key to crank, and nothing happened. Popped the hood, looked at fuses for a half second, went back and turned the key. Fired up.

Drove about a half mile down the road and lost power. Engine turned off and I coasted off to a side road. Turned the key and nothing happened. Sat there cursing the car for a few seconds and out of no where, the gas and temp and pressure gauges came on like I had just turned the key into the first position and they had just got power (again, nothing else in car was indicating a loss of battery or power). I tried the key and the engine fired right up. I sat there and let it idle for a minute and since I was close to home, went on my way down some neighborhood back streets. No other problems.

Now, I'm not sure where to start. Any suggestions? Thanks in advance.

 

[chiefmoose]

I would check the battery for starters. A weak battery can cause lots of problems like that. ECU would be the next check.

 

[dandywriter]

Agree with battery; also, with MkV, you should check grounds as well. If all that is good, when was the last time your fuel filter was changed?

 

[freakmike3]

Battery is about 2 months old. Fuel filter is coming up on 18k miles. Was going to change it at 100k later this month but I guess I can do that now. Reading the links on fuel filter replacement, someone mentions the slight shudder/hesitation. I thought I was imagining it but over the last week or so I can say I was having a slight shudder. Changing it seems simple. Once I have it changed, I just... turn the engine over a few times without starting it to fill the reservoir/ prime?

Also, what would I be checking for the grounds? I have 0 electrical experience/tools (other than successfully changing the 420 fuse a few weeks back).

Again, thanks!

 

[tdiatlast]

09 Jetta won't prime the filter with the key. Fill the filter canister till it almost overflows (pouring fresh diesel on the OUTSIDE of the filter element), torque the lid down, fire it up. Many here have done it this way w/o issue. (BEST way is using VCDS to prime the filter.)

I don't think your issue is your FF, nor your battery, although a weak battery can cause random issues. Which battery did you buy? Were the terminal lugs properly cleaned prior to battery installation? Electrical grounds should be checked. Even w/o experience, you'll probably SEE corrosion on the grounds. I believe the main one is under the battery, but I'm not sure. Someone else will weigh in on WHERE to check.

I also wonder if there's a problem in the key/switch, causing a circuit to open? No experience there, though.

 

[jetlagmech]

my first thought was the key switch also. jiggle the key in ignition switch while idling and see if you can recreate the problem. Or wait for it to happen again and see if playing with the key is what returns it to normal. hard to narrow down if its just intermittent and cant recreate it.

 

[freakmike3]

I'll go give the key switch jiggle a try. I looked at all of my battery connections and they are clean. I looked at the few grounds I could find and did not see any corrosion with those either.

I did find a video and this is exactly what happens. Sadly, the OP never reported back if he fixed it and what the culprit was.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDcJBMFVLGI

 

[freakmike3]

So I hooked up a diagnostic tool and it gave me the codes p13d6 p13d7 and p047a. Seems that two of them are for glow plugs. I'll grab some and swap those out tomorrow. Easy enough. The other is for "Exhaust Pressure Sensor "B" Circuit."

Also, I ran a battery test with the tool and it said that the voltage was low on my battery. I did alternator test and it said there could be something wrong and have it checked out. Not sure if I did it right, I hooked it up to my gf's lancer and it said the same thing. Low voltage and something may be wrong with electrical system. So I may just not have done that right.

Does it seem like these things could have caused my issue?

Thanks again!

 

[dandywriter]

On the 2006 BRM, there is a major chassis ground that works loose underneath the air cleaner box. Pull the air box and look for an acorn nut that bolts 2 wires to the chassis. Check for corrosion. Sand any off, tighten acorn nut. I expect the grounds for a 2009 will be in a similar location...

 

[jetlagmech]

I would clear the codes and see if they come back. the glowplug/pressure sensor and exhaust diff pressure sensor are common failures but they wouldn't shut the eng off. if they are current hard faults you Check Eng Light would be on with eng running. might just be there as an aftereffect from what is causing your problem.

How many keys and FOBs are on your key ring hanging from ign switch while driving?? It has been suggested that too much weight bouncing in the ignition switch can damage it or wear it out.

 

[tdiatlast]

I don't think excess weight on the key ring would shut an engine off when it's sitting still, at idle. I agree that it could be a problem while underway...

 

[freakmike3]

Is it possible that the 460 relay under the dash could cause this? Would the relay work/not work, or would it just stop working totally? I just replaced the other one that controlled the fan/power plugs/ wiper fluid pump. If I pulled the relay, is there a way to test it since the issue comes and goes. The other relay was just "dead" but since it controlled things that I didnt use every day, I can not really tell if it just died or was an intermittent issue and it eventually died. I guess I could swap out the 460s from left to right and if the other stuff dies and not the engine... I know what it was. I hate electronics. lol.

As far as keys I have only ever had the fob and my house key. Nothing else.


I've looked at a lot of the wires and nothing seems to be corroded. The compartment is relatively clean all the time.


I didn't replace the glow plug or fuel filter yet because work, etc. but the car has driven fine since last week and today it turned off again. Was sitting at the light and lost instrument panel. After about a minute the gauges lit back up and car could be started.

 

[NickLim]

Hey, it is possible it is the 460 relay under the dash on the left side - I think that is the relay where there are 2 of them if I recall. What you mention sounds what I experienced, where the engine would just shut off randomly, but the some of the electronics stay on. It is definitely a terrible situation to be in, it happened to me like 5 times on the freeway.

Here is my post on it-

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=450201

 

[freakmike3]

Hey, it is possible it is the 460 relay under the dash on the left side - I think that is the relay where there are 2 of them if I recall. What you mention sounds what I experienced, where the engine would just shut off randomly, but the some of the electronics stay on. It is definitely a terrible situation to be in, it happened to me like 5 times on the freeway.

Here is my post on it-

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=450201

I swapped it today. So that means both of my 460 relays went bad within a few weeks of each other. Crazy. While I was grabbing the second one, the parts guys asked what I was trying to fix. I told him about the car dying and what goes out and he says he just took a call yesterday with an 09 that had same issue. I guess the only way make sure this is what it was is drive around for a few days and see what happens since it does it all on its own. Here's to hoping I am in the clear now.

Thanks for everyones advice. I will post back in a week or so if this seems to fix it in case others have same issue. Since I swapped the old and new ones, I assume my engine will not die and at some point this week my ac blower and washer fluid motor will. I can handle those dying in traffic. Losing the engine at 60 on the freeway is butthole tightening.

 

[Jeta Life]

Relays 460 and 100

Same thing happened to me a few years ago, was a head scratcher.
Mechanics found very small trace amounts of battery acid around my battery and connector cable which was a first failed fix attempt on their part. I paid for the battery and cable swap as a "shot in the dark"...no good but I needed both anyway...at least according to them. That was $300, no solution...3 days later (and charged 4 hours labor they diagnose to failed relays 460 and 100, controlling starter, blower motor and wipers and probably a few other things.
Same thing with mine..2 460 relays failed within days of each other once one was replaced...wow...I am not alone, but this is a freak occurrence...or so I've read on the forum. What can go wrong will go wrong.

 

[freakmike3]

Just an update, its been over 2 weeks and 500 miles and so far the issue has not come back after swapping out the other relay.

 

[edge130]

Specifically, what did you have to do to access the relays?
Not quite sure where they are located.
Did you have to remove pirces of the dash?

 

[James & Son]

Specifically, what did you have to do to access the relays?
Not quite sure where they are located.
Did you have to remove pirces of the dash?

Engine died but no crank
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=390277

The links in my post will help.

 

[freakmike3]

Specifically, what did you have to do to access the relays?
Not quite sure where they are located.
Did you have to remove pirces of the dash?

The only piece of dash I had to remove was the panel under the steering wheel. A few torx screws and then unplug the light for the foot well and move the panel out of the way. There are a few relays there, but the two black ones are the 460s. The one closer to the middle of the car is the easiest to replace. That one went bad last month on me. You know when it is dead because the heat/ac fan will not blow, the wiper fluid motor will not work, and you lose power to the ac adapters.

The other relay is closer to the drivers door. It has a white relay next to it that controls the interior light. I had to remove the white one to get a good grip on the 460 relay. It was a pain in the ass honestly.

I just started using google to cross reference what some people here suggested with what I could find that others had posted for my make/model. I started finding exact same issues and settled on this part, and luck would have it, it was that right piece it seems. I think if you search for 2009 TDI 460 relay you will find a few pics of the location.

Like others said, it is a cheap $12-18 part that could cost you an arm and a leg in labor trying to diagnose if you took it in.