2009 Jetta TDI

[maloosheck]

I have never heard this before.

It comes straight from VW training materials for PD170 (BMN) engine. I am afraid I have only Polish version available, but I can translate word by word if you want.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

It sounds like the issue here is that periodically the car has to be driven in a certain way (what, no one has said) to make sure the particulate filter is effective. And this doesn't meet EPA criteria for a foolproof system. Is that right? If so, how on earth could this criteria be a surprise to VW at this late stage?

I wonder what happens if the system is compromised by improper operation. Can it be repaired, or does it have to be replaced?

 

[lbhskier37]

It comes straight from VW training materials for PD170 (BMN) engine. I am afraid I have only Polish version available, but I can translate word by word if you want.

So your saying in europe where TDIs pretty much all have DPFs, the driver is instructed to and has to drive a certain way periodcially to regenerate the DPF? This makes no sense as all the vehicles in the US that have DPFs don't have the problem.

All DPFs in the US get regenerated automatically if the driver doesn't drive a certain way. Why would VWs be any different. Are VW engineers that much below Cummins and Cat engineers?

 

[ssamalin]

I'm talking about the totally new NOX burner on the 2009. JasonTDI said it has to driven at a certain speed for certain time to work. That made me say it won't pass 50 state regulations. Just a guess. I haven't heard any real news.

 

[maloosheck]

So your saying in europe where TDIs pretty much all have DPFs, the driver is instructed to and has to drive a certain way periodcially to regenerate the DPF?

First, not all engine has DPFs. They were introduced recently. In the document I got there were only 4 engines with the DPF mentioned.

Second, I believe VW assumed certain driving pattern which in most cases is enough to make sure there is no problem with the DPF. But that does not mean there is no possibility to kill the DPF.

All DPFs in the US get regenerated automatically if the driver doesn't drive a certain way. Why would VWs be any different. Are VW engineers that much below Cummins and Cat engineers?

I have no idea about US DPFs. Maybe it is a matter of amount of fuel used and emission levels?

 

[dhdenney]

Ok we're saying the car has to be driven a certain way for a period of time. Fair enough. What are the parameters for this manner of driving? Where do you draw the line that the criteria has not been met?

 

[maloosheck]

Passive regeneration is automatic process and it takes place when the exhaust fumes temp. is 350C-500C e.g. during highway driving.

Active regeneration is performed after increasing the temperature of the exhaust fumes to 600C-650C through additional fuel injections 35degree after Top Dead Point. Unburnt fuel goes to DPF and burn the soot particles. This reaction requires certain amount of oxygen in the fumes and takes about 10 minutes.

When the filter is 50% full ECU starts active regeneration, that takes approx. 10-15 minutes.

If the active regeneration is not possible due to inappropriate driving conditions, the filter is filled to 55% and the active regerneration will last 30 minutes.

If it is still impossible to initiate active regeneration, ECU turns on the DPF light that requires driving for 10 minutes at constant speed of 60km/h.

If the driver fails to drive that way and the DPF is filled in 70%, ECU turns on the CEL, glow plugs light and DPF light. At this point active regeneration is possible only using the diagnostic tools.

 

[DCubed]

From what I heard, we are still on time for the new schedule for the TDI launch, so it will be coming, especially for the CARB states, they want to get as many in as VWAG will let us have before the CARB states change their minds.

 

[robbinsresort]

That setup doesn't look too idiot proof to me.

Even happier with my '06 now.

 

[dhdenney]

Passive regeneration is automatic process and it takes place when the exhaust fumes temp. is 350C-500C e.g. during highway driving.

Active regeneration is performed after increasing the temperature of the exhaust fumes to 600C-650C through additional fuel injections 35degree after Top Dead Point. Unburnt fuel goes to DPF and burn the soot particles. This reaction requires certain amount of oxygen in the fumes and takes about 10 minutes.



When the filter is 50% full ECU starts active regeneration, that takes approx. 10-15 minutes.

If the active regeneration is not possible due to inappropriate driving conditions, the filter is filled to 55% and the active regerneration will last 30 minutes.

If it is still impossible to initiate active regeneration, ECU turns on the DPF light that requires driving for 10 minutes at constant speed of 60km/h.

If the driver fails to drive that way and the DPF is filled in 70%, ECU turns on the CEL, glow plugs light and DPF light. At this point active regeneration is possible only using the diagnostic tools.

Sounds like short trippers might have a hard time keeping this going.

 

[El Dobro]

This was posted last year about the particulate filters. http://www.iconia.org.uk/files/Diesel Particle Filter Recommendations.pdf

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

I don't think there will be a 2009. The NOX burner doesn't meet the emissions tests and VW won't produce it. The NOX system is user dependent and therefore will not meet emission regulation. JasonTDI says the user is required to drive the car at a certain speed for a certain time. This fails regulation that the system is idiot proof. That I think is why VW announced a delay. They can't fix it and will announce no 2009 unless they can glue a urea NOXer on it. Not going to happen.

I've been reading the back-and-forth on the Sportwagon thread and it's put your statement shown above in a different light. It sounds like all JasonTDI said to you is that the current particulate filters on TDIs in Europe are user-dependent. While true, you make statements in the second and third sentences of this post as if they were fact. It now sounds to me that they are opinion only, and, for that matter, opinion that involved a leap from a statement made to you about particulate filters.

I haven't read everything there is out there on these filters, but I did understand from the VW engineer that spoke at TDIFest that the CRD Jetta emissions system is entierly new. That would mean it's not necessarily like a system currently in use in Europe that requires driver participation.

The last two sentences of your post also sound like you had info from VW regarding their ability to fix the emissions system (assuming it's broken) and that you somehow knew that there would be no 2009 VWs. Now it sounds like you have no direct knowledge of either of these data.

Please set me straight if I'm misinterpreting this. I, like others here, depend on the continued sale of TDIs in the US for their livelihood. And I'd like to know if what you posted is fact or conjecture.

 

[ssamalin]

I've been reading the back-and-forth on the Sportwagon thread and it's put your statement shown above in a different light. It sounds like all JasonTDI said to you is that the current particulate filters on TDIs in Europe are user-dependent. While true, you make statements in the second and third sentences of this post as if they were fact. It now sounds to me that they are opinion only, and, for that matter, opinion that involved a leap from a statement made to you about particulate filters.

I haven't read everything there is out there on these filters, but I did understand from the VW engineer that spoke at TDIFest that the CRD Jetta emissions system is entierly new. That would mean it's not necessarily like a system currently in use in Europe that requires driver participation.

The last two sentences of your post also sound like you had info from VW regarding their ability to fix the emissions system (assuming it's broken) and that you somehow knew that there would be no 2009 VWs. Now it sounds like you have no direct knowledge of either of these data.

Please set me straight if I'm misinterpreting this. I, like others here, depend on the continued sale of TDIs in the US for their livelihood. And I'd like to know if what you posted is fact or conjecture.

NOX burner and DPF are two completely different emmission systems on 2009s both of which I think must work without dependence on user driving speeds to pass 50 state. Both it seems may not pass that test so I conjectured that could kill the 2009. JasonTDI only refered to the NOX burner requiring driving at a certain speed and time period. Others since my post have pointed out the DPF is likewise flawed. There are no facts here only that the NOX and the DPF may be user dependent, and if I'm not mistaken, that 50 state requires no user dependence. Whether this means the 2009 is in trouble because of this is my conjecture. If as you say the DPF may not be user dependent than obviously that eliminates that. I have no news or info from any source VW or Car and Driver. I said "I think" line one.

 

[06SpiceRedTDI]

Passive regeneration is automatic process and it takes place when the exhaust fumes temp. is 350C-500C e.g. during highway driving.

Active regeneration is performed after increasing the temperature of the exhaust fumes to 600C-650C through additional fuel injections 35degree after Top Dead Point. Unburnt fuel goes to DPF and burn the soot particles. This reaction requires certain amount of oxygen in the fumes and takes about 10 minutes.

When the filter is 50% full ECU starts active regeneration, that takes approx. 10-15 minutes.

If the active regeneration is not possible due to inappropriate driving conditions, the filter is filled to 55% and the active regerneration will last 30 minutes.

If it is still impossible to initiate active regeneration, ECU turns on the DPF light that requires driving for 10 minutes at constant speed of 60km/h.

If the driver fails to drive that way and the DPF is filled in 70%, ECU turns on the CEL, glow plugs light and DPF light. At this point active regeneration is possible only using the diagnostic tools.

This makes me glad I bought the 2006 this sounds like a very complicated system to keep fully functional and operational for the 20 years and multiple hundreds of thosands of miles that I am planning on keeping my car.

 

[Eric Cartman]

This makes me glad I bought the 2006 this sounds like a very complicated system to keep fully functional and operational for the 20 years and multiple hundreds of thosands of miles that I am planning on keeping my car.

Ditto that.
Maybe we can hang on to the 06 and if they do not decide to do a NEW 08, 09, or 2010 diesel, maybe the value of our cars will climb?
Wishful thiking?

 

[yoseppi]

My main concern is that in states that do not require emissions bull****, how can i disable this entire stupid system so I won't have to worry about it?

Seriously

 

[dhdenney]

My main concern is that in states that do not require emissions bull****, how can i disable this entire stupid system so I won't have to worry about it?

Seriously

I'm in the same boat as you as far as testing in KY and whatnot. If it were me, I would wait til something messed up. Then do a turbo back exhaust with just a muffler and maybe hi-flo cat. Then turn to our chip tuners and I am sure they will have something by then.

 

[jaydogg007]

My guess is that all states will require the emissions on vehicles new diesel vehicles here in the next 5 years or so. Maybe sooner. I only say this because our addiction to gasoline is projected to decrease significantly while diesel increases. US and Canadian refiners will soon (next 2 to 4 years) will have higher cetane numbers to meet, exactly what happens in Europe.

Also....these are very new engine & exhaust systems. Disabling/dismantling the latter might just screw something up that nobody has any experience repairing should something go wrong.

This n00b doesn't recommend tampering with your new car's exhaust treatment. You might just need it to pass a state inspection in the future. Your state doesn't have an emissions reg? Hang tight...they're coming...I promise!!

j...

 

[dhdenney]

I wish everyone would quit using this expression "addiction to foreign oil" or whatever. We'd have plenty of f'ing oil if we could drill for the stuff.

 

[Jibeho]

LoL

I like addiction to foreign beer better!

I wish everyone would quit using this expression "addiction to foreign oil" or whatever. We'd have plenty of f'ing oil if we could drill for the stuff.

 

[dhdenney]

LoL

I like addiction to foreign beer better!

Mmm, I wish Young's still made Dirty Dick.

 

[jaydogg007]

Just dropped mine off at the dealership for an alignment and tire rotation. Kinda got queasy when he quoted me $140 for an alignment. So while I was waiting for my ride, I strolled the lot.

In case anyone is interested....there are four 09 Jettas at Jersey Village VW right now. No TDI JSWs...at least not that I saw.

White Loyal Edition with DSG & roof
Grey with DSG & roof
Black six speed no roof (SHARPEST LOOKING ONE ON THE LOT)
Graphite Blue with DSG, rear spoiler & roof

I didn't make note of the interior colors....too much to remember

Also saw four CCs....very sharp looking cars, but they kinda look like Honda Accords in the front end. I really liked the 17" wheels they come with.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

There's a black sedan in the showroom at my local dealer. It looks great. Grey leatherette. It has a DSG, which would be a non-starter for me. Besides, I'm not shopping. No, I'm not.

 

[Rod Bearing]

I wish everyone would quit using this expression "addiction to foreign oil" or whatever. We'd have plenty of f'ing oil if we could drill for the stuff.

Talk to the oil companies. They're the ones standing in the way. Why would they want us to have more oil on the market? That would drive prices/profit down.

 

[dhdenney]

Talk to the oil companies. They're the ones standing in the way. Why would they want us to have more oil on the market? That would drive prices/profit down.

That's such a basic argument though. Doesn't really have anything to do with it. Oil companies will make their money whether oil is $1 a barrel or $100 a barrel. Oil companies will make their money whether they are importing it from the Middle East or drilling it here. It's in their profit margin. There's not gonna be any lost revenues for oil companies in this latest crash of oil prices. My basic point was we've got oil and they're importing it. I didn't say anything about oil prices.

 

[BOSTON-VW]

Just dropped mine off at the dealership for an alignment and tire rotation. Kinda got queasy when he quoted me $140 for an alignment. So while I was waiting for my ride, I strolled the lot.

In case anyone is interested....there are four 09 Jettas at Jersey Village VW right now. No TDI JSWs...at least not that I saw.

White Loyal Edition with DSG & roof
Grey with DSG & roof
Black six speed no roof (SHARPEST LOOKING ONE ON THE LOT)
Graphite Blue with DSG, rear spoiler & roof

I didn't make note of the interior colors....too much to remember

Also saw four CCs....very sharp looking cars, but they kinda look like Honda Accords in the front end. I really liked the 17" wheels they come with.

My dealer is Quirk VW in Braintree, MA. They are by far the largest VW in the Northeast. At the moment they have 11 TDI sedans, plus a few JSW. They even gave me $500.00 off retail a couple of months ago when they didn't have to.

Quirk VW Inventory Link:

http://vw.quirkcars.com/index.htm

 

[aja8888]

The U.S. is the third largest crude oil producer in the world at 5+ million barrels per day. Russia is first followed by Saudi Arabia as second. The U.S. is self sufficient in all other froms of energy (coal, natural gas, electricity).

The big problem is we use 20+ million barrrels (equivalent) of crude oil to move our fleets of cars, trucks, buses, airplanes, railroad engines.

OH, BTW, DeMontroand VW in Houston has a Gray,2009 JSW (6 speed manual) pano roof, 17" rims, etc, etc, sitting there for MSRP if anyone wants it.

 

[darrenf]

BOSTON-VW and aja8888,

If you have time to do so, please post the JSW offerings in the JSW mega-post:

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=173195

Folks there would really appreciate it.

-darren

 

[MTjake]

How much faster do you want it?

I wish everyone would quit using this expression "addiction to foreign oil" or whatever. We'd have plenty of f'ing oil if we could drill for the stuff.

You're right, we're addicted to any kind of oil, not just foreign, however:
"US Q3 oil drilling activity up 34 percent from year ago - API


WASHINGTON – The U.S. exploration and production industry’s drilling activity continues to outpace last year’s levels and is nearly twice the level seen in the 1990s, according to API’s third quarter 2008 drilling estimates."

http://www.api.org/Newsroom/us_q3_drilling_stats.cfm


Personally I find that the rate of drilling continues to increase at a staggering pace. I've worked for years in geophysical exploratory surveying, and there are places that I no longer recognize. The aerial photos of the Pinedale, WY area provide a mind numbing experience.


Sort of back on subject, the local dealer here continues to sell '09 TDI's for $2000 over MSRP because people keep paying it.

 

[Plonker]

Sort of back on subject, the local dealer here continues to sell '09 TDI's for $2000 over MSRP because people keep paying it.

Was just about to say "here too!" until I realized we're talking about the same dealer. I've tried again and again to offer them MSRP but they just won't do it. If only there weren't so many multi-million dollar ski homes here (and their spending owners), I might be able to.

...then again if that were the case, we probably wouldn't even have a VW dealer.


But maybe I'm wrong- it seems all the MT dealers (and even those in WY) are charging at least $2000 over. Don't you think the less populous areas would be unable to maintain such crazy pricing?