2009 HPFP Failure - Contained with 2Micron Kits

JSWTDI09

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Joined
Jan 31, 2009
Location
Las Vegas, Nevada
TDI
2009 JSW TDI (gone but not forgotten)
Interesting to note: 2 pump failures shortly after installation of the 2Micron filtration system. If this system came from VW, all the posters would be blaming the dealers and VW.
I can only think of three possible reasons why the HPFP might fail shortly after the installation of 2micron's fuel system modifications.

1) The installation was not done correctly (there is no reason to believe this is true in either case).

2) The HPFP was ready to fail anyway. The fact that the failure occurred soon after installation was a coincidence. In this case there might have already been metal bits in the fuel filter. Metal flakes or not, the installation of the 2micron mods was just in time to prevent a more expensive disaster.

3) Dirt (or other contamination) was introduced into the fuel system during the service (installation). Absolute cleanliness is vital when working on these fuel systems. There is no way that properly installed 2micron fuel mods would (could) damage the HPFP itself. The problem with the HPFP is design and/or materials choices (part of design). Everything the 2micron mods do is good for us and harmless to the car.

Have Fun!

Don
 

turbovan+tdi

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Abbotsford, BC.
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2003 TDI 2.0L ALH, auto, silver wagon, lowered, Colt stage 2 cam, ported head,205 injectors, 1756 turbo, Malone 2.0, 3" exhaust, 18" BBS RC GLI rims. 2004 blue GSW TDI, 5 speed, lowered, GLI BBS wheels painted black, Malone stage 2, Aerotur
I highly doubt the 2 micron kit caused the failure but rather prevented a major repair bill. It was just time and the 2 micron kit did its job.
 

MRO1791

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Joined
Aug 25, 2015
Location
Western Washington
TDI
2015 Cruze TD (x2), 2009 Dodge Cummins
Correlation does not Prove Causation

Interesting to note: 2 pump failures shortly after installation of the 2Micron filtration system. If this system came from VW, all the posters would be blaming the dealers and VW.
Well, I may be new to this forum, but I've looked over this issue extensively after finding metal particles in my filter at last change.. which is NOT normal (I have a Diesel truck with more miles on the filter, more fuel passed through it, same fueling stations.. NO METAL).

I'm also a Mechanical Engineer, and looked at the various pictures showing failures, as well as the internals of the pump's design.

I'm convinced by the evidence, that this pump is poorly designed, and was used because of how much easier, and cheaper, it is to manufacture than the CP3 version (which has no cam/roller within it). The cam roller is not a good design, it is subject to wear, perhaps poor fuel makes this much worse, but I'd say in the best cases of fuel, it remains a poor design. There is nothing but spring pressure, and the rising/falling profile of the cam/roller that prevents rotation of the roller (which means it can begin to rotate at top or bottom of pump cycle, at 4 times per revolution! What happens when you stop the engine and some residual torsion in the coil spring is acting to rotate the roller (top or bottom of cam)? It may rotate, then next engine start disaster!), in several documented failures, as in this one, the roller has rotated and caused massive metal contamination and failure.

There is nothing to the 2microntech kits that can contribute to failure of this poor design, but quite a bit that does in fact greatly reduce the massive system contamination and costly damage. Frankly, VW should not use such a sensitive pump, but clearly feels MOST of the time they will last for at least 120K/10 year (hence the warranty extension). They extended the warranty, because the MANY complaints of this pump failing, and I can be sure the vast majority of those failures do not have the 2Microntech kit, and also do not post on this forum, or even do more than drive and fuel their vehicles.

One thing to note, over at the massive list of complaints on the NHTSA site, about 180+ and counting, the common theme is failure happens suddenly, with no warning, often in traffic, and the engine dies, and won't restart. In the case for the failure that is subject of this thread, the failure was much more gradual, showing that controlling the metal contamination by the 2Microntech kit provided at least some warning, and some ability to not be stranded..

In my case, showing the metal to my VW dealer, and discussion with VW customer care over the issue, it becomes crystal clear to me that VW policy is to gamble that most pumps last to or beyond the extended warranty, and in my case they do nothing until if fails catastrophically, they are OK with the metal particles in my filter (clearly telling me wear is occurring and I might not get to the 120k/10yr, but warranty or not, I do NOT like having a car I can't trust, knowing it can fail at any time without much or any warning..

To be fair, VW is not better or worse in this regard over other vehicle OEMs, I've had issues with GM, and Chrysler with other vehicles, similar attitudes in those cases as well, the difference in this one is the long list of failures, the appearance of what to me, from an engineering POV, appears to be a poor design and the reluctance to do a preventative and permanent fix, this tells me VW has calculated the cost to "fix" it as being more than dealing with the occasional failures, and the consequences resulting from such.. clearly some are getting lucky and going well past 120K without issue.. but who knows when that ends, the pump will fail eventually, and when it does, it will be very EXPENSIVE, likely total a car if it has many miles and years on it at that time.

One other thing I looked into was HPFP failures from other CR diesel vehicles, seems the newer GM and Ford are having issues with the Bosch CP4.2 (a 2 piston version of the VW TDI pump, CP4.1), but the Cummins (Dodge) does not have these issues (uses CP3), nor the older CP3 HPFP GM vehicles, so it seems clear to me this design is at best overly sensitive to fuel quality, or just a poor design period, a ticking time bomb for a catastrophic failure, sure some get lucky, but I'm not usually in that camp!
 

MRO1791

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 25, 2015
Location
Western Washington
TDI
2015 Cruze TD (x2), 2009 Dodge Cummins
I have a HPFP from the original set of pump revisions without a green dot (which according to my spreadsheet means I've got one that is similar to dwiesel's failed ones). I have 156k miles, and have done nothing special. I don't prime with VCDS (I do add fuel to the filter housing), and I use normal Mann filters. No metal ever.

There are two people in this thread that had a failure <1000mi after installing a fuel system modification. That doesn't instill confidence in me, even if I love the idea of the modification.
I've got metal in my filter, this for a 2012 with less than 45K, and I use Stanydyne fuel additive for most of those miles (to improve lubricity), always proper fuel from a large volume fuel station.. same used for my diesel truck, no metal in that vehicle's filter with more fuel passed through it, and more miles..

Oh, I did the filter change at 14K, from the last dealer change, and I do prime with VCDS to prime, and it has always had OEM filters, including the one I put in, MANN filter exactly like the dealer filter.

Sounds like you've been lucky thus far, but if I were you, I'd get this kit now, because when your pump does go, you won't have warranty coverage and the cost for repairs is massive. Personally, I'm looking at doing a pre-emptive CP3 kit install to have confidence again.. metal in the filter is not normal, no matter what VW says!
 

jason_

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 2, 2014
Location
michigan
TDI
2015 s wagon dsg
What Andrew said, no leaks yet! I am still using the original washers, not the upgraded aluminum ones. Not leaking yet.

Car is driving just fine, no issues at all.
Yearly update?

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redbarron55

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Joined
Jul 10, 2010
Location
Navarre, FL.
TDI
2012 Touareg TDI Executive
My 2009 is still doing great with the 2Micron system.
Just an update.
I have an unmodified 2013 that I want to install the system on when the warranty is over, but there is 70,000 miles to go on it. That assumes that VW survives.
 

jason_

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 2, 2014
Location
michigan
TDI
2015 s wagon dsg
Could I attempt to cleanly and surgically check the pin, and reassemble with a dash of oil then prime? Or just let it be unknown and let it strand me?

Be nice to investigate and get an idea if it's starting to wear or has wear.

Wonder if it's like crank and cams, case hardened. Once the layer is gone, it disappears like butter against a hot knife?


Edit


What keeps the piston and roller from turning in the bore? Luck?

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turbovan+tdi

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Mar 23, 2014
Location
Abbotsford, BC.
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2003 TDI 2.0L ALH, auto, silver wagon, lowered, Colt stage 2 cam, ported head,205 injectors, 1756 turbo, Malone 2.0, 3" exhaust, 18" BBS RC GLI rims. 2004 blue GSW TDI, 5 speed, lowered, GLI BBS wheels painted black, Malone stage 2, Aerotur
Could I attempt to cleanly and surgically check the pin, and reassemble with a dash of oil then prime? Or just let it be unknown and let it strand me?

Be nice to investigate and get an idea if it's starting to wear or has wear.

Wonder if it's like crank and cams, case hardened. Once the layer is gone, it disappears like butter against a hot knife?


Edit


What keeps the piston and roller from turning in the bore? Luck?

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Just check the fuel filter for metal debris.

There is a thread on here regarding the HPFP, someone took it apart and analyzed the failure.
 

jason_

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 2, 2014
Location
michigan
TDI
2015 s wagon dsg
For some reason I don't think that'll directly help me to visually inspect the cam/roller/piston.

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GoFaster

Moderator at Large
Joined
Jun 16, 1999
Location
Brampton, Ontario, Canada
TDI
2006 Jetta TDI
I think the exercise of disassembling the pump in order to inspect it, will be extremely likely to introduce contamination into the system, and thus CAUSE the pump to fail shortly thereafter, in which case it would have been better to leave it alone.

If there is metal shrapnel in the fuel filter, it's coming from the injector pump.
 

jason_

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Jun 2, 2014
Location
michigan
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2015 s wagon dsg
How do they assemble them? This is truly fascinating!

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Kriesel

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Joined
Feb 22, 2009
Location
Afton, MN
TDI
2006 Jetta TDI
Yearly update?

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The car was running great, until it went off the road and hit a tree... So, it was a successful fix, and would likely still be on the road, but the tree totaled the car out.
 

jason_

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Joined
Jun 2, 2014
Location
michigan
TDI
2015 s wagon dsg
The car was running great, until it went off the road and hit a tree... So, it was a successful fix, and would likely still be on the road, but the tree totaled the car out.
I need a pump.

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Mrrogers1

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Joined
Jun 25, 2006
Location
Omaha NEEEBRASKA
TDI
2011 Golf TDI 6MT, 2011 Jetta TDI DSG, 2015 Golf Sportwagen S TDI DSG
The car was running great, until it went off the road and hit a tree... So, it was a successful fix, and would likely still be on the road, but the tree totaled the car out.
So you're saying that the 2Micron fuel filter/pump kit made the car drive into a tree? Dang, I'm on the list but now... :D
 
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